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Thread: New Engineer Nano Changes!

  1. #61
    OK firstly I must admit havent read all the posts as the first thing that hits me is that my engie wont be able to cast ..well...anything but the lower level stuff as she hasnt raised any ts.
    Twinking on the full alpha she got was painful enough
    Unless things have changed she does not have another full ipr

    will there be any special support to players with end game engies? or do i need to start preparing buying ipr pts etc, finding all my buffing gear, asking ppl to buff me again etc. Hell I have even sold the lower ql symbiants I used for ladder buffing

    some more feedback on how you plan on implementing this without seriously messing up some players would be nice

    On the positive side I really hope this would be the end of swapping xx items in order to buff while in bs

  2. #62
    They already said that everyone would get a free FIPR when re balance hits.
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    Eh could you find out? If casting refreshes the blockers that means it's a slight improvement over how they currently work. If it doesn't it's a fairly big nerf. And I need to find out if I should be pissed off or not
    I assume that it would work like this:

    Cast: get first timer, get cooldown.
    20s: First buff ends, blockers are given.
    40s: cooldown ends allowing recast of the original nano.
    50s: blockers refresh themselves.
    60s: rebuffed first buff ends, blockers are given.
    80s: see 40s.

    But I could be wrong.

    And tech, according to the doc im reading the dog replaces the 2nd mini and the first mini (lesser mini) becomes mini.

    So first reward would be -50 scale pet buff, second reward would be the dog.
    Last edited by Xenotric; Nov 12th, 2010 at 20:12:47.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    The 1st shrink nano, the -25% one has turned into the new dog, so if you have completed that quest you will have a new dog instead of -25% shrink. The second nano the -50% shrink is the same as it currently is.
    I might be misreading the document then. Lesser Miniaturization is turning into Miniaturization and is changing from -30 (-25...?) into -50. Currently, you get Lesser Mini from the Jobe Scientist Quest. Miniaturization is turning into the new dog. You currently get that nano from the KotY quest. Is that changing order?

    And btw, my question was, are either/or nano still coming as quest reward from the Scheol quests? And, I guess I will extend that to, who is the nano intended for, if the answer is yes?
    Liamboru 220 Engineer - Brianboru 220 Soldier - Padraigboru 150 Soldier - Tadghboru 60 Engineer - Cormacboru 15 Engineer
    ...and ofc, the army of buff hoes
    ------------------------------------
    PvPDood: Hey, come back and duel me again, I hardly ever get to fight a gimp like you! - Get a /tell like that and it sort of makes you want to evaluate what you thought was a twink!

    Walker
    : Anarchy! Anarchy! Anarchy! Anarchy!
    Texas Ranger
    : I don't even know what that means, but I love it!

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    No, no, you really didn't. You just couldn't figure it out. Now we all have to suffer for that. Thanks.
    If by "suffer" you mean improve things to be more streamlined and intuitive then yes I guess we will be "suffering". Where in the engineer description does it say we have to be masochists? You even said yourself: if the proposed ip template was the way things currently were then it would be great and only because it's not is the reason you don't like it. Embrace change for the better brah.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    Oh yeah: In before NR engineers take over.
    please tell me someone at fc has thought of this...

  7. #67

    Funcom employee

    Yes, we've thought of that.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  8. #68
    I'm puzzled by the lack of whines that point out on "painful" IP resets from nano skills to something else, that these changes are promoting.

    Also, some MC/TS buffs in perk balance documentation seems kind of obsolete now.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Yes, we've thought of that.
    That's good, would be an interesting power shift there.

    I like some of this. The highest tradeskills by my reckoning are definitely way easier to get to than with nanoskills - if they stay around the numbers they currently are at.

    However - the nerf to our blinds is awful, PvM-wise. Main part of our survival toolset, disappointed that we're losing that. Good on giving 175 engis the black beast. Have you updated the higher level slayers with the epic black skin yet?

    Interesting to say in the least. Definitely making me look forward to the rebalancing conclusion - provided we get those FIPRs you promised...
    Kaelde ~ Gimpy engi of doom
    Ecrisi ~ Even gimpier than Kaelde

    Thingymawhat of Paragon

  10. #70
    Ok yeah, sorry I was out of order, I never could remember what nano you got first.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

    "I know who coded pet pathing... and when I see him I say "/follow" and I start waling in to walls :P"

    The "Trolls" option is incorrect. The term trolls is not used to describe the gathering of information on the Internet.

    <@Kintaii> L2P

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    I'm puzzled by the lack of whines that point out on "painful" IP resets from nano skills to something else, that these changes are promoting.

    Also, some MC/TS buffs in perk balance documentation seems kind of obsolete now.
    The Perk document will be gone back over to have the nanoskills it offers changed to tradeskills.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

    "I know who coded pet pathing... and when I see him I say "/follow" and I start waling in to walls :P"

    The "Trolls" option is incorrect. The term trolls is not used to describe the gathering of information on the Internet.

    <@Kintaii> L2P

  12. #72
    Tradeskills for nanos:
    Sweet. Now i can be the tradeskill mule everyone already thinks i am.... plus i'll have to ipr and retwink on all my alphas. joy.

    Engineer Defensive and Offensive Auras:
    Defensive auras running on pets = nice

    Reflect Buffs:
    so our base reflect is upped, and mrs is nerfed. meh. will suck on rk bosses, be nice in sl.

    Tradeskill Buffs:
    whee NP makes everything shiny! wtf is the psycology?

    Weaponry Buffs:
    now, if we only had decent weps (read: sloth with burst) to go with shiny new buffs.

    Slayerdroid Transference:
    *snickers at more ma's whining that i have a bigger ma buff than them*

    Damage Shields:
    I like. MOAR DAMAGE!

    AC Buffs:
    Cool they fit in the ncu better. now make them do something past 12k or so

    Special Blockers:
    W.T.F.... you're nerfing blockers? great, there goes my only viable defense in pvp. Seriously, wtf. 1 sold, fix, advy, can rip blockers off now if they rub 2 braincells together. if you get hit by 2 or more people, they are gone before you can blink.


    Team Blockers:
    nerfed team blockers = cool. I still think they are op in this form though.

    Init Buffs:
    OK. Not a bad change.

    Anchor/Recall/Beacon: 2 weeks instead of 3. :P

    Pets: mid level puppy = finally. and drop slayer anni level lock to 165. (aka so tl5 pvpers can use a bot that can hit something thats not an afk doc in carb and 100 imps)

    Pet reworking:
    So very very vague.

    Pet Procs:
    nice, so now will pets have a way of not being kited/rooted/snared/ubted/drained into useless lawn statues to use these nifty new procs?

    Pet AoE Snare:
    that lands, please?

    Pet Heals:
    Very very nice change.

    Pet Damage Boost:
    Cool. hope the resistance is enough to have a noticeable effect.

    Pet Warp/Pet Remove Debuffs/Pet Resist Buffs:
    mmmmk... why? though everything was being moved to tradeskills?
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    ...Ranged professions enjoy a significant advantage everywhere and more so against pet professions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Note: Calling me an "incompetant ass-monkey", while admitedly is extremely amusing, does nothing to quantify what exactly, if anything, you would like to see changed in your/someone else's nanos.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    I'm puzzled by the lack of whines that point out on "painful" IP resets from nano skills to something else, that these changes are promoting.
    I'll pick up the slack klod. its cool. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    ...Ranged professions enjoy a significant advantage everywhere and more so against pet professions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Note: Calling me an "incompetant ass-monkey", while admitedly is extremely amusing, does nothing to quantify what exactly, if anything, you would like to see changed in your/someone else's nanos.

  14. #74
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar

    Thumbs down

    Speaking from mid level pvm perspective blind aura nerf is going to simply kill my little 150 engi project. How exactly am i going to survive anything without evades, healing, heal delta and crowd control? Dont tell me about ACs plx! Was it thought to bring more emo threads or something?

    2nd disappointment is lowbie pvp. I thought this issue will be adressed but i see nothing here. How exactly can a lvl 60 engi for example stand any chance with typical pvp opponents of that level? Or a 150 one? Am i missing anything? Would it be possible to be born as a lvl 215 as an engi? If you are going to suck all way long and sit in a kite team than why not? Ahhhhhh, in game store ... now i understand ...

    Whole special blockers line should be reworked. There should be exactly same or very similar amount of blockers at every level but they should have limited HP caps so they wouldnt be abused and noobs using ql 50 progras up to tl7 wouldnt have easy time. For example level 50 locked nano blocks 4-5 specials but only up to X HP therefore if your higher and special does more dmg than hp cap it should hit. is higher The reason behind it is fact that engi opponents at lower levels have mostly same amount of specials as at tl7. Some of recharges may be slower (no all thos, for many its easy to cap recharge before lvl 100).

    To sum it up; as usually everything done from tl7 perspective.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  15. #75

    Funcom employee

    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  16. #76
    I'd love some changes: reflect, add dmg buffs, blockers, may be somthing else.

    But:
    1. reflect debuff as a pet proc is a a bad idia, becouse it makes our pets a prime target in any case. In mass pvp it makes soldier immortal, beouse it affects 1 target and only for pets. Since pets are usualy rooted or calmed in mass pvp engineer becomes blocker totem only in mass pvp.

    2. We will lose 726 offence from pet buffs. I hope new pet ar will be an adequate, becouse we will lose possibility to do any harm to evaders especially to bureaucrats and fixers.

    3. Trade skill for nano buffing is a stupid idia, becouse size of trade skills for this nanos much more than we need to have for top craft. My guide helps you to realise how much base skills we need for craft. I'm affraid we lose possibility to use any weapon with new Tskill requaerments, becouse IP cost of new setup will be higher. I would not like to comment what most of engineers will chose to be a crafter or to be a weaponer.

    4. Root/snare pet immun redused from 76% to 30%. It will be more easyer to root/snare our pets.

    5. Blockers. ATM it's possible to remove it by 3 specials: burst, fling, AS. So fixers, crats, engineers, docs, Envy soldiers, Advs have possability to remove it solo by right special combo. 5 special blockers are 100% removable by this professions for 12 seconds and 18 seconds we have no deffence. (i'm not mind if you are going allow people to use only 2 special such as fling ore burst + AS ore FA)
    Last edited by Alceona; Nov 12th, 2010 at 21:22:03.
    Nemezyda PvP/DD/Solo PVM/tradeskill engineer.
    Nemezyda's Top Craft with low IP cost Guide.
    Nemezyda's Implants Assembling Guide
    Alceona Ordinary MP.
    Baldhead He has a shiny baldhead.
    Lucepher 220 Enfo
    Cyborgwizard 200 NT

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    I'm puzzled by the lack of whines that point out on "painful" IP resets from nano skills to something else, that these changes are promoting.
    I assumed they have thought of that or at least they will be going for the PP money grab store item called instant re-equip after balance full IPR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farlath View Post
    Pets: mid level puppy = finally. and drop slayer anni level lock to 165. (aka so tl5 pvpers can use a bot that can hit something thats not an afk doc in carb and 100 imps)
    I will still ask, who is this mid-level doggy intended for? As in, what levels. Also, will they be part of the Scheol quest line, as the current nanos are?

    I am not sure, personally, which way I would go, I did not really like the quest, but if it was just that, I would log a 220 toon and pull my lowbie through the quest. However, assuming I am going on to 220, I am looking at (it was a few weeks ago, so might no be exact) 10+ ticks on a level 10 le research. I know that is almost a joke with daily missions/DOJA, but still something to weigh. I would also like to know if all of the other profs nanos from that quest are going to go from, "I can live without" to something semi tasty, in the event population returns and you could get a team. What do soliders get from that quest, a 1% and 2% reflect thing (that is going away). Wonder if I could get a soldier to do the quest and give up that many le dings?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    So with that said, and I think this was asked before, is all balance focused on just player to player interaction or are you changing the mechanics of how players interact with mobs?
    Last edited by Liamboru; Nov 12th, 2010 at 21:11:05.
    Liamboru 220 Engineer - Brianboru 220 Soldier - Padraigboru 150 Soldier - Tadghboru 60 Engineer - Cormacboru 15 Engineer
    ...and ofc, the army of buff hoes
    ------------------------------------
    PvPDood: Hey, come back and duel me again, I hardly ever get to fight a gimp like you! - Get a /tell like that and it sort of makes you want to evaluate what you thought was a twink!

    Walker
    : Anarchy! Anarchy! Anarchy! Anarchy!
    Texas Ranger
    : I don't even know what that means, but I love it!

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceona View Post
    3. Trade skill for nano buffing is a stupid idia, becouse size of trade skills for this nanos much more than we need to have for top craft. My guide helps you to realise how much base skills we need for craft. I'm affraid we lose possibility to use any weapon with new Tskill requaerments, becouse IP cost of new setup will be higher. I would not like to comment what most of engineers will chose to be a crafter or to be a weaponer.
    Was messing with AO Skills earlier and IP came out to be pretty much the same but now you just have all around higher TS skills so no need to swap as much to make top gear.

    I had All Abilities/Pistol/Burst/Fling/MR/Body Dev/1800 CL/Maxed treatment/1250 First Aid/Maxed Evade Close, Dodge, RS,NR, Nano Init, around 1250 Ranged init (before buffs)/Maxed EE/QFT(for team blockers)/Slightly Trimmed Chem/ME/WS. And it still left plenty of ip for pharma/psychology/nano programing (all of which skills we don't *need*)

    So basically everything but Duck.
    Last edited by Brofist; Nov 12th, 2010 at 21:15:31.
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    oh good, you are removing the abbility for more than one mob to attack me at once in pvm!
    Phew i was worried there for a moment.


    edit: This isnt even a pvp concern, hell you can give it a "target must not be human" tag if you like and remove it from pvp completely for all the difference it will make, its landing rate against other players is so low i doubt anyone would notice anyway.
    Last edited by Uaintseenme; Nov 12th, 2010 at 21:24:47.
    Quote Originally Posted by egadsrk2 View Post
    In the case of this little drama, Party A created a situation. Party B perpetuated it with name calling. Party A finished it with violence...
    I was "party A"

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*...
    Haven't seen anything in the proposed changes thats gonna make up for an effective loss of 1200 aad (effective when mobs are blinded around you with the nano in its current form.) Unless Engies are getting access to Acrobat? Or pets are getting mongo?
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    ...Ranged professions enjoy a significant advantage everywhere and more so against pet professions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Note: Calling me an "incompetant ass-monkey", while admitedly is extremely amusing, does nothing to quantify what exactly, if anything, you would like to see changed in your/someone else's nanos.

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