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Thread: GTH and BR changes. (Info from Means)

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by lusthorne View Post
    I believe you will find that aside from the current implementation of BR on live (obvious vulnerabilities to BR notwithstanding), there is no such thing as trader god mode.

    As I'm guessing your comment is in reference to the nanomage absorb, I shall point out that in fact, a 5k absorb does not make any nanomage/profession combo a god.
    I was joking NM is the best prof for a trader imo at the moment. It still sucks though.
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  2. #82
    Some info about BR on test atm:

    It lasts 10 sec.
    It has 60 sec cooldown.
    It can be cast on anyone that has 1% melee reflect or higher.
    It debuffs 12% reflect on someone that has rrfe (30% reflect) running.
    It debuffs 15% on someone that has 60% reflect running.

    BR Overwrites smaller reflects in the traders ncu (if the trader gets 18 from BR for example, it will cancel any lower reflects in the traders NCU).
    BR positive effect lasts 10 min on trader.

    BR doesn't stack with other reflects in the traders NCU like rrfe and such but BR will not cancel reflects either unless BR buffs more than the reflect the trader already has. So rrfe will never be canceled by using BR as rrfe gives more reflect than BR does.

    It does add 18 reflect to the trader if the target has rrfe running and the trader doesn't have rrfe.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 12th, 2010 at 19:19:33.
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  3. #83
    Sounds balanced for once . . .

    Cept, what are the cast/recharge time, and NR check ? For a 10 seconds debuff duration nano it better be short / low check.

  4. #84
    NVM, changes still sound OK to me. What was changed from the last iteration?
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  5. #85
    It has been nerfed even more useless, except the override part.

    Welcome back in the stone age my comrades!
    Last edited by Racatti; Mar 13th, 2010 at 00:27:45.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Djantro View Post
    Sounds balanced for once . . .

    Cept, what are the cast/recharge time, and NR check ? For a 10 seconds debuff duration nano it better be short / low check.
    If I remember correctly, cast time was 3s and recharge 1.5s or something very close to that. 100% NR check.
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  7. #87
    As, 3 seconds goin insta or capped at 3 ? 4.5 seconds wasted for 10 seconds drain with 100% NR check sounds not enough, but 1.5 sec recharge maybe is ?

    @ Rac, don't see how it is useless, 12% reflect debuff does give an edge. Could come "free" in the form of 0.1/0.1 cast and lower nr check tho, dunno. Not playing trader.

  8. #88
    While I like the change in regards to overwriting current reflects, I gotta wonder about the scaling and duration.

    Wrangeline, you list the debuffs up to 60%, what if the target has more? Is it still a 15% debuff if the target has say, 80% reflect? (I haven't gotten around to re-making a testlive copy else I'd hop on test and try to see for myself)

    If so, this is a bad joke. Dropping the debuff duration to 10s is already bad enough , but if that's going to be a whopping 15% debuff to a target with 60% reflect or higher then there's not much point to using it other than as a self reflect buff when you can't get rrfe.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Djantro View Post
    @ Rac, don't see how it is useless, 12% reflect debuff does give an edge. Could come "free" in the form of 0.1/0.1 cast and lower nr check tho, dunno. Not playing trader.
    This BR will mean no difference at all, -12% is nothing, especially for only 10s.

    Its only use in on BS when your side has no solja, while the other side is littered with traders, so you can't lock TS by using your reflect-graft.

    In every other situation you better off casting anything else instead.
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Djantro View Post
    As, 3 seconds goin insta or capped at 3 ?
    I don't think it's capped at that speed. It simply says 3.0s in the description. You can probably cast it instant if you got the inits for it. My trader on test is in tradeskill setup so I have no IP in inits though so it took me like 2 seconds to cast it on full agg

    Quote Originally Posted by lusthorne View Post
    While I like the change in regards to overwriting current reflects, I gotta wonder about the scaling and duration.

    Wrangeline, you list the debuffs up to 60%, what if the target has more? Is it still a 15% debuff if the target has say, 80% reflect? (I haven't gotten around to re-making a testlive copy else I'd hop on test and try to see for myself)

    If so, this is a bad joke. Dropping the debuff duration to 10s is already bad enough , but if that's going to be a whopping 15% debuff to a target with 60% reflect or higher then there's not much point to using it other than as a self reflect buff when you can't get rrfe.
    I only got to test on someone with 30% and 60% reflect. Test server isn't really packed with people and so I got a Dev to help me test it a bit. He cast 30% on himself and then 60%. I'll test it on someone with like 83% reflect and such if I find someone to test it on
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 13th, 2010 at 09:53:44.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  11. #91
    Some more testing:

    I tested BR on a level 175 soldier that had tms6 running.
    It buffed my reflects by 30% and debuffed his reflects by -20%.

    The 10 minute positive effect on trader can not be canceled because it's considered a "hostile" program. Because of this I have to wait a bit before I can test it again (because I need rrfe cast on me before the next test and you can't get reflects cast on you while BR is running). When I get the chance I will test what happens if I have rrfe on me when I cast this on him. Since both BR and rrfe buffs 30%.

    Then when I get the chance I will test on a soldier that has AMS3 or higher.

    Edit: The positive +30% effect I get when I use BR on a TMS'ing soldier only takes up 30 ncu (though the description still says that BR takes up 175 NCU).
    Edit2: Tested it on a TMS'ing soldier while I had RRFE in my NCU. It did not cancel RRFE (I'm GUESSING it will overwrite rrfe if rrfe got less than 10 minutes left on it, but if that's so then that's fine.)

    Edit3: I double checked the casting speeds and the description of the nano says 3.0 cast and 1.5 recharge.
    Edit4: Casting BR again on someone will not refresh the 10 minute positive effect. If I cast BR again when the last positive effect has 6 minutes left for example, it will keep counting down from 6 minutes when I land BR the second time.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 13th, 2010 at 09:55:53.
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  12. #92
    One personal note:
    I think it's a bit annoying that we can't cancel the positive effect of BR. If I for example used it on someone and got a small reflect buff in return, I would have to wait 10 minutes if I found a soldier and wanted to get rrfe off him.

    I also think that 10 seconds effect on the target is a bit on the short side. It hardly gives people time to recharge their specials before it's gone. Could be 15 seconds so that we at least can get in 2 specials before it ends.

    The thing is though, if I have rrfe on me while PvP'ing, which I pretty much always have, then there's not really anything to gain by casting BR for defensive purposes. Also, because of the short duration and relatively small reflect-debuffs it does, especially on people with less than 75% reflect, it seems to me that if I have the time to cast BR instead of something else, its main use is to make a kill go a little bit faster. If I had the time to cast BR like this though, that kill would have happened a few seconds later anyway. The reason for this is that it's not a +/-15% difference in reflect that dictates if a trader wins a fight or not. Trader got relatively bad DPS for the most part so we win based on defensive rating vs attack rating and heals vs incoming damage. Because of this, if we had the time to cast BR and then win, we could have won without the need to cast BR as well. The only difference would be that we won a couple of seconds sooner if we used BR.

    So BR in this form becomes primarily useful in a situation where the enemy is an AMS'ing soldier and you wish to debuff his reflects by -20% so that you and your zerg can drop him in 5 seconds instead of 20.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 13th, 2010 at 10:09:14.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  13. #93
    I'm a bit worried about BR changes from my NT's perspective tbh. Not only will traders remove all my nano, drain my skills to nothing, they will also be able to rip through my nullity sphere now and gain a self reflect from it. Seems over the top.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    Edit3: I double checked the casting speeds and the description of the nano says 3.0 cast and 1.5 recharge.
    If I am reading DB rip correctly, attack speed is capped at 1.5s.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamite View Post
    I'm a bit worried about BR changes from my NT's perspective tbh. Not only will traders remove all my nano, drain my skills to nothing, they will also be able to rip through my nullity sphere now and gain a self reflect from it. Seems over the top.
    I just tested BR on a NT with nullety sphere on test just now.

    It debuffs the NT with -20 reflect and buffs the trader with +30%. So it works the same way as vs a soldier with tms.

    I guess that answers the question of what happens vs a soldier with AMS too. It seems that it debuffs -20 and buffs the trader +30 if the target has anything above 75% reflect. So 75, 83 and 100 reflect on the target is the same as far as BR is concerned.
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by ninst View Post
    If I am reading DB rip correctly, attack speed is capped at 1.5s.
    Hm yeah, the current BR on live servers atm is capped at 1.5 as well. So no insta-casting then
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    One personal note:
    I think it's a bit annoying that we can't cancel the positive effect of BR. If I for example used it on someone and got a small reflect buff in return, I would have to wait 10 minutes if I found a soldier and wanted to get rrfe off him.
    Would you mind comfirming/testing this for me? It didn't seem like you did, but maybe I missed it.

    Find some random person running RRFE and cast BR on them. This should give you a low reflect. When it recharges, cast it on a Soldier running TMS to verify if the larger reflect from the second cast overwrites the lower reflect from BR already running.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    Find some random person running RRFE and cast BR on them. This should give you a low reflect. When it recharges, cast it on a Soldier running TMS to verify if the larger reflect from the second cast overwrites the lower reflect from BR already running.
    Ask and ye shall receive.

    Did BR on a soldier that had rrfe running. I got 18 reflect.
    When cooldown was over I did BR on him again when he had AMS running. The 18 reflect was replaced with a 30 reflect, with a new 10 min timer.

    If you do BR on someone that has AMS running, then do BR 1 minute later on the same person or someone else that has AMS running, the new BR wont refresh the old one in the traders NCU. FC seems to have coded BR to work in such a way that BR wont overwrite any reflect-effect that is of the exact equal number of any reflect that BR is trying to provide. This means that a positive BR effect of +30 wont overwrite RRFE because rrfe is also +30 but it also means that a positive BR effect of +30 wont overwrite an existing positive BR effect of +30.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 13th, 2010 at 19:32:36.
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    Ask and ye shall receive.

    Did BR on a soldier that had rrfe running. I got 18 reflect.
    When cooldown was over I did BR on him again when he had AMS running. The 18 reflect was replaced with a 30 reflect, with a new 10 min timer.

    If you do BR on someone that has AMS running, then do BR 1 minute later on the same person or someone else that has AMS running, the new BR wont refresh the old one in the traders NCU. FC seems to have coded BR to work in such a way that BR wont overwrite any reflect-effect that is of the exact equal number of any reflect that BR is trying to provide. This means that a positive BR effect of +30 wont overwrite RRFE because rrfe is also +30 but it also means that a positive BR effect of +30 wont overwrite an existing positive BR effect of +30.
    Awesome thanks. Perhaps BR should overwrite itself if the reflects are the same, but still not overwrite RRFE? Seems like it still needs some adjustments, imo.
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  20. #100
    only feature that needs to be changed i the non-cancellability of the beneficial part, especially when the negative duration is that tiny. Sounds like reverse engineering the GTH timer locks as a cruel joke on us hehe.
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