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Thread: Update Release Notes 18.4.14

  1. #21
    now for the real reason I came to forums...

    I don't see any change in droprate on the wistful apparition. Maybe its easier because the adds haven't dotted me yet. I AM hoping that isn't the 'easier' part of it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Why, considering that it didn't say anywhere in the description that it COULD fly in SL etc., and that no other such items had that capability. If that were the case, then sure. But since that wasn't the case, and that you bought one based on word of mouth, you should have the cognitive capacity to make the connection between "no description of the feature, no other similar items with the feature" and "this is a bug".
    Avoid the accusatory "you" if you didn't actually mean ME. I specifically said that I did NOT buy one, at ALL, not in order to fly or not to fly or sit on it and look pretty -- I did NOT buy one. Proper form would be "one should," etc.

    But if you ARE raging at some strawman customer who bought the vehicle to h4xx0rz t3h syst4m and fly in SL: I don't know why you would feel the need to rush to FC's defense about a customer service issue, but the fact remains that this is a virtual good and should be returnable for "store credit" given the very plausible potential for the purchase to have been a misunderstanding. Scenario: Player sees someone flying on this neat vehicle and asks "ZOMG WARE I GET THAT?" Flying player says "pick it up at itemz shop mangdude." And so it is bought, without a thought. Then FC nerfs it in a mandatory patch you have to install in order to play the game. Let's say this was a new player. He doesn't know you aren't supposed to fly in SL. He just knows THIS vehicle lets him do it. You can speculate all day about how all players that bought the snowspeeder are either idiots, or sploit4rz ch33ting f4g0gtzes just looking to game the system and deprive you of the relative value of your hard earned subscription dollars that you work hard for and blah blah blah, but the fact remains that this is FUNCOM's mistake, not any player's.

    Even if it was the player's mistake buying a flying vehicle that wasn't supposed to fly, it was FC's mistake for making it fly in the first place, and anybody who is inconvenienced by it should be able to claim compensation. This is doubly true considering it is a virtual good, there is no cost to restock, and no actual money needs to change hands.

    If Funcom wants to improve its customer service reputation, it will do this. They're JUST Funcom Points. They could give them out for free promotionally if they wanted to, even. I'm not suggesting that necessarily, but it wouldn't be a terrible idea. Something similar: Aurum in EVE Online. It's a currency for buying social stuff (for an avatar you almost never see). They gave out aurum for free to all players a few times to stimulate its use. It kinda worked. Probably not as well as they had hoped, but it didn't cost them anything to do it. Again, I'm not suggesting a give-away here. I'm just putting into perspective that refunding FCP is so far from a big deal that I can't understand why you are arguing against doing something that would improve FC's customer service image.

  3. #23
    Why haven't Jobe scientists figured out how things fly in SL, anyway? Little SL starter quests indicate that they have been working on the problem for some years now.

  4. #24
    I heard about the yalms that fly in SL and I personally didn't think it was a bug or exploit.. that's coming from someone that's played the game for 8 years.

    My actual thought was "Oh cool, they finally decided to give us flight in SL as a christmas present this year..too bad its an item store item." and had been meaning to voice some level of complaint over the 'item store only' option. At some point I became aware that it was a bug, probably some post on the forums someplace since I frequently visit.. but I know it wasn't from any communication in game and not from the description of the item in the Items Store (because I did go look at it there). In other words, the majority of the game population that does not frequent the forums would have had no way of knowng that it was a bug and thus should be able to get a refund for their item.

    Word of mouth, in Anarchy Online, is how most information is passed from player to player when you really think about it as there are a crapton of undocumented features in the game. Saying that players are dumb/idiotic/etc for listening to word of mouth is pretty unfair as that is probably how most people have learned quite a bit in the game (self included over the years).

    There are things in this game that are clear bugs and other things where you simply don't know. We aren't mindreaders.. just players and what may make sense to us within the grand scheme of the game, may or may not be in sync with the Devs desires.

    Masta, please enlighten those that apparently lack common sense in your eyes.. why is flight not allowed in SL? Is it a story line reason or something else? The only place I believe it could be problematic is Pandemonium (people flying straight to Beast) but I don't see why the entire Shadowlands should have flight restriction due to a single area.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 24th, 2012 at 16:32:14.
    You can find me at:
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    You should know by now in this game nothing is common sense, whose to say they didn't just decide that there would be flying in SL? Im not worried about it, but after getting many char to 220 this would have been nice. Would have made it a lot easier and less repetitive and time consuming.
    Common sense in the fact that flying in SL breaks all kinds of things and taking the time to make it not break all things and not be a completely weird/broken experience is not going to happen, because it costs too much for a feature that the whole place was not designed to contain. Money, is the common sense thing going on here. Not about what new uber item should be the next FOTM.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Common sense in the fact that flying in SL breaks all kinds of things and taking the time to make it not break all things and not be a completely weird/broken experience is not going to happen, because it costs too much for a feature that the whole place was not designed to contain. Money, is the common sense thing going on here. Not about what new uber item should be the next FOTM.
    Ok, please show me where it was said that there will never be flying in SL.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Ok, please show me where it was said that there will never be flying in SL.
    They also said that alien level progression was set in stone, so what would the point of such a statement be?

    Cash speaks, however, and having flying in SL be an experience that is on par with the rest of the game would take far too much development time for what today's dev team has available, and give no return on the investment. Somehow I doubt that you could sell enough SL-only flying vehicles, which you'd have to start making, to make up for the cost of having a developer going through all the SL playfields and making sure they're fly-proof (and then after deal with the outcry of "why do I have to buy a new flyer at 10 euro to fly in SL!?"). But hey, maybe if everyone wanted that far more than they want new content, new engine and rebalance, we could have flying in SL. Who knows? But as it stands right now, then it's so very unlikely that I'm going to just say that it won't happen while AO still lives.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Jan 25th, 2012 at 00:52:48.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Cash speaks, however, and having flying in SL be an experience that is on par with the rest of the game would take far too much development time for what today's dev team has available, and give no return on the investment.
    I refute your statement thus: the Christmas air car flew in SL, cost a lot of FC points, and sold rather well it seems. The fact that it wasn't supposed to fly in SL does not negate the fact that it did.
    Ghosts of Rimor
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    Goratinkr TL5 OT Hurler Factotum Engineer :: Bringin' the thunder since 2008.
    Scrubup 100 Bow Doctor :: Will she ever get out of perk reset? Stay tuned!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    i might be a troll

  9. #29
    Since you guys "fixed" the DAV plots, Dark Front's city on rk2 has been having problems. Yesterday, somoene turned off cloak with cc fully loaded, no aliens came.

    Also, lower our rent plz (192 mil a month makes it the most expensive city in game) kthkxbye
    Deathmaster1 220/30/70 Dmsengi 220/28/70
    Dmstanker 220/30/70 Dmsdoc 220/25/70
    Anarchic1 126/15/35 Dmsfix 220/30/70
    Imakeyouoe 164/22/42 Imakeyouoe2 85/9/21

    BM of Dark Front - We are recruiting. darkfront.org

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    I refute your statement thus: the Christmas air car flew in SL, cost a lot of FC points, and sold rather well it seems. The fact that it wasn't supposed to fly in SL does not negate the fact that it did.
    And you miss my point completely. It flew in SL yes, and there were a thousand places you could fly into that you weren't supposed to, weird places you could go, things that break the intended experience of SL, and thus break the intended experience of flying. You need to go over the entire place and make sure that holes in places are fixed, that you can't fly forever into the brink, or unintentionally zone to inferno from nascence through flying, or fly under the world, or whatever other problems flying might have in an area that wasn't made with it in mind. THAT costs money to do, and for what return? Angry players when you try to make it up again.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    They also said that alien level progression was set in stone, so what would the point of such a statement be?

    Cash speaks, however, and having flying in SL be an experience that is on par with the rest of the game would take far too much development time for what today's dev team has available, and give no return on the investment. Somehow I doubt that you could sell enough SL-only flying vehicles, which you'd have to start making, to make up for the cost of having a developer going through all the SL playfields and making sure they're fly-proof (and then after deal with the outcry of "why do I have to buy a new flyer at 10 euro to fly in SL!?"). But hey, maybe if everyone wanted that far more than they want new content, new engine and rebalance, we could have flying in SL. Who knows? But as it stands right now, then it's so very unlikely that I'm going to just say that it won't happen while AO still lives.
    Ah i see what his issue is, hes crying cause hes afraid if they worked on this his new content, rebalance, engine will be delayed. Well its already delayed so nothing to worry there, and creating a SL vehicle people can buy will help with your new content, it will pay for developers and others to work on such content. Without money the content will never be completed. Get over yourself man you don't have a valid reason for anything your saying, the snow speeder worked just fine in SL, it didn't break anything, yes it went a couple places it shouldn't have but it wasn't game breaking.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Ah i see what his issue is, hes crying cause hes afraid if they worked on this his new content, rebalance, engine will be delayed. Well its already delayed so nothing to worry there, and creating a SL vehicle people can buy will help with your new content, it will pay for developers and others to work on such content. Without money the content will never be completed. Get over yourself man you don't have a valid reason for anything your saying, the snow speeder worked just fine in SL, it didn't break anything, yes it went a couple places it shouldn't have but it wasn't game breaking.
    What? No valid reason? Crying? Delays? What do I care. If AO shut down tomorrow I wouldn't even lose a second's worth of sleep.
    Of course it "worked" however as you said it went in all kinds of wrong places and no doubt it could get stuck all over. No ground for what I'm saying? OK, but then, you don't have any grounds for anything you're saying either, and you appear clueless to the process for experience design and what impact this will have.

    Consider, if the whole game was full of stuff that just barely worked and you could get stuck constantly or stick through walls and see the inside of everywhere, completely breaking any intended experience, breaking all control from the game's designers and taking it into a place of confusion and anger. Do you think that is good for population, reputation and ultimately business, having a game where the basic features don't work and instead cause you to have no end of troubles?

    You get over yourself.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    What? No valid reason? Crying? Delays? What do I care. If AO shut down tomorrow I wouldn't even lose a second's worth of sleep.
    Of course it "worked" however as you said it went in all kinds of wrong places and no doubt it could get stuck all over. No ground for what I'm saying? OK, but then, you don't have any grounds for anything you're saying either, and you appear clueless to the process for experience design and what impact this will have.

    Consider, if the whole game was full of stuff that just barely worked and you could get stuck constantly or stick through walls and see the inside of everywhere, completely breaking any intended experience, breaking all control from the game's designers and taking it into a place of confusion and anger. Do you think that is good for population, reputation and ultimately business, having a game where the basic features don't work and instead cause you to have no end of troubles?

    You get over yourself.
    Its obvious you didn't try one when it was working, otherwise you would know that what your saying is not true, i got stuck once while using it and i went all over the place. And the only place i got stuck was under water in ado. You talk as if allowing flight in SL will break the entire game.

  14. #34
    flying in SL is so wrong in so many levels..
    and the amount to work required from devs to fix all borders and everything is not even funny to think about.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    flying in SL is so wrong in so many levels..
    and the amount to work required from devs to fix all borders and everything is not even funny to think about.
    Its not wrong on any level and should be allowed, and the amount of stuff that would need to be fixed is not even close to what you are thinking. There wouldn't be as much work needed as you think.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Its obvious you didn't try one when it was working, otherwise you would know that what your saying is not true, i got stuck once while using it and i went all over the place. And the only place i got stuck was under water in ado. You talk as if allowing flight in SL will break the entire game.
    Any and all bad experiences had by the game just breaking is worth avoiding at all costs. Especially when allowing flight in SL will do absolutely nothing for anyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Its not wrong on any level and should be allowed, and the amount of stuff that would need to be fixed is not even close to what you are thinking. There wouldn't be as much work needed as you think.
    And you can say this how? Are you a dev working on AO? How long do you think this would take. Let's see, how many outdoor zones are there in SL, 30? Now you need to load these in, then sit and go through every area in them and look for leaks where players might fly outside the intended borders and break the experience. How long will that take? Two hours pr zone and it's probably a very rushed job, but let's say that's about how long it'll take. So, 60 hours to implement flying in SL, then add some more as bugs turn up caused by this, and we're looking at two full workweeks to implement it and bugfix on it. Can you come up with a probable argument that makes flying in SL valid on that basis?
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Jan 30th, 2012 at 20:31:01.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Any and all bad experiences had by the game just breaking is worth avoiding at all costs. Especially when allowing flight in SL will do absolutely nothing for anyone.



    And you can say this how? Are you a dev working on AO? How long do you think this would take. Let's see, how many outdoor zones are there in SL, 30? Now you need to load these in, then sit and go through every area in them and look for leaks where players might fly outside the intended borders and break the experience. How long will that take? Two hours pr zone and it's probably a very rushed job, but let's say that's about how long it'll take. So, 60 hours to implement flying in SL, then add some more as bugs turn up caused by this, and we're looking at two full workweeks to implement it and bugfix on it. Can you come up with a probable argument that makes flying in SL valid on that basis?
    Your assumptions worthless, you just don't want them to work on anything other than the rebalance or engine which you have stated several times. The only reason this is a bad idea in your mind is it will take away from the time devs might spend on engine/rebalance. I would pay more than 1200 points to fly in SL, which is what this game needs right now. Without money there will never be a new engine or rebalance, so which would you rather have.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    So, 60 hours to implement flying in SL, then add some more as bugs turn up caused by this, and we're looking at two full workweeks to implement it and bugfix on it. Can you come up with a probable argument that makes flying in SL valid on that basis?
    2 full work weeks to fly in SL.. or even 3. See that goes to show what I know about game development (little to nothing) as I thought that would be a big project. So if its 2-3 weeks and players get the fun/entertainment/novelty value of flying in SL I think its a great time investment to produce something that would be a huge and very fun change.

    Masta, you sold me on the idea, lol, though I'm sure that wasn't your intent.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlonel View Post
    Your assumptions worthless, you just don't want them to work on anything other than the rebalance or engine which you have stated several times. The only reason this is a bad idea in your mind is it will take away from the time devs might spend on engine/rebalance. I would pay more than 1200 points to fly in SL, which is what this game needs right now. Without money there will never be a new engine or rebalance, so which would you rather have.
    Not really, I work with software development and know how these kinds of things always tend to take more time than you count on from the get go.
    I'm sure most of the finding things would be outsourced to the QA department and not touch dev time much, other than the actual fixing of things after the QA put together a long list of locations, but even so, that has to be weighed up by the economic feasability of the project. Is it better to do this than it is to have those QA people (in reality, it'd probably be something the AO devs would have to do in their spare time out of their own good heart) work on TSW, AOC or running around making sure new engine works on all kinds of hardware as well as being used to fix up some of all those old bugs that still haunt. Spending that much time on such a major effort, with so little chance of economic payback, would seem weird. But like I said, they also said the AI level progression was set in stone, but I guess you didn't get that reference.

    And again, I could care less if they start developing that. This is not a THEY SHOULD TOTALLY DO THIS OR THEY SHOULD TOTALLY NOT DO THIS WAAAAH series of postings. I don't care either way. I'm just saying why it is very likely not to happen.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Jan 30th, 2012 at 23:54:49.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

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