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Thread: Ultimate/Consolidated Engineer breed choice guide

  1. #1

    Ultimate/Consolidated Engineer breed choice guide

    Since I'm fed up with this subject coming once a week or so, and no one picking up the glove, I thought I'll make one thread consolidating all information about this.
    The guide is aimed at both the begining and experienced player. As such I will try to use as little jargon as possible, please comments if you think something can be made clearer.
    My aim is to a) collect all OBJECTIVE data b) collect all opinions
    Feedback on both is welcome, especially regarding opi, as I have very little to say about this breed, and regarding cons for soli.

    No flames please. I will incorporate any constructive comment, and ignore/delete any meaningless trollage.

    Nanomage
    Pros:
    Unique items for int and nanoskills twinking at early/mid-game.
    First to cast and easiest to self each bot and nano.
    Easiest to equip Tier and Arith armor.
    Easiest to equip symbs at mid-game.
    Best at most tradeskills

    Cons:
    Least HP (~1.5k less than soli at 220)
    Hard to equip the best symbs at endgame.
    Hardest to equip Combine Commandos armor.
    Worst SB for clan.
    Worst Burst, AS.

    Summary/Opinion:
    Best at early and mid-game (up to TL5 probably) where HP is rather meaningless and casting and selfing first is meaningfull, due to symbs and abilities.
    Hardest for PvP at endgame due to lack of perks and HP.
    Cheapest to play as it doesn't require much to self everything.

    Solitus:
    Pros:
    Decent HP.
    Good enough nano skills.
    Easy to equip endgame symbs.
    Good endgame perks for PvP.

    Cons:
    Most IP to max abilities

    Summary/Opinion:
    With good HP and nanoskills mix probably the best overall breed for the average player, not looking for unique advantages.
    Good endgame PvP due to perks (and SB for omni).

    Opifex:
    Pros:
    Best weapons. Highest pistol combo. Best Pistol/Grenade AR.
    Best evades.
    Easiest to equip CSS.
    Easiest to equip the important endgame symbs.
    More AS.
    Good burst.

    Cons:
    Slightly less HP than soli.
    SB for clan is bad.
    HP regen tick is slowest

    Summary/Opinion:
    Best choice for an evade engi. Slight loss of HP is covered up by better evades, if one chooses to play this way.

    Atrox:
    Pros:
    Best HP (~1.5k more than soli/opi, ~3k more than NM).
    Mongo Rage, an endgame Perk which might be usefull for PvP.
    Easiest to put on strong/merc armor.
    Least IP to max abilities.
    Fastest HP regen tick.
    Best Burst.
    Good AS.

    Cons:
    Hardest to put symbs in. Even the 250 symbs are very hard at 220.
    Hardest to self bots and nanos.
    Hardest to put Tier armor/CSS/Scout/Officer.
    Worst at tradeskilling

    Summary/Opinion:
    Worst for start and mid-game.
    HP, SB and maybe MR make it good for endgame PvP.
    Not a good choice for the beginner player and a challange to everyone.
    Most expensive to play as it requires much to self anything.
    See Beornin's thread for more information.
    Last edited by muha; Dec 25th, 2006 at 11:07:22.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  2. #2
    You might want to include the trade skill capabilities of each breed (opi having highest in agility based trade skills nanomage highest in... etc etc) Other then that this along with many things has been debated time and time again over each profession and as long as its facts i see nothing wrong with it..

    Something else to include..
    +Lack of nano on the opi as well as the atrox, hell as a solitus need genius 3 times over to get buffed...

    My personal opinion :P
    +Go with what you want in your character and what works for your playing style...
    At 220... everything works for everything..

    +Flame+
    As a role player I see many things wrong with the Atrox Engie as well as the Opifex Engie, I frown upon them being used for the profession... just my 2 cents...

    //Mr. Naota 'Takun' FuriKuri
    Last edited by Takun; Apr 10th, 2006 at 05:33:37.

  3. #3
    Linked in useful reference threads
    Rustybolts, 220 Supreme Creator
    Kofiannan 220 Dictator
    Aalant, 210+ Savior
    Jeffcorwen 201+ Adv
    Rustyblades 204+ Enf

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Takun
    You might want to include the trade skill capabilities of each breed (opi having highest in agility based trade skills nanomage highest in... etc etc)
    As most tradeskill depend heavily on int/psy, I added that NM is the best and atrox is the worst at it.
    I know some consider opi to be the best at ME/EE (hiro's guide for instance), but as these depend also on int/sta I fail to see how this can be a meaningfull difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takun
    +Lack of nano on the opi as well as the atrox, hell as a solitus need genius 3 times over to get buffed...
    Do you mean nano pool?
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by muha
    Do you mean nano pool?
    Yes, takes about all my nano to cast my bots, genious perk + nano kits, then about all of it again to cast 2x combat arrays and then intrusive aura.. not to mention buffs for my self as well as for team-mates that want engie loving... believe i have about 6.5k nano pool atm.. then again im a gimp so that might just be me.. mochies web is your friend!!

    But once i get pets out and buffed and we get rolling, just using genius i have enough nano to keep everything re-buffed with out having to stop for a nano kit...

    //Mr. Naota 'Takun' FuriKuri
    Grenadearchy Online
    Takun - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Crit Monster - Overlord of Mortar Kombat
    Grenades - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Leveling Monster - Advisor of Mortar Kombat

    Grenade Infos
    Pure DPS - [Setup] - 1701 Fling to cap Sloth - 1% crit is equal to ~28+ damage
    Agg/Def: 100% - 1440 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 150 Ranged Init to cap Sloth
    Agg/Def: 0% - 2640 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 1650 Ranged Init to cap Sloth

  6. #6
    If I understand correctly this is more of a minor invonvinence than a real benefit, right? i mean, being a nanomage I would have been very happy if this would have been a real benefit, but it just isn't important it seems.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  7. #7
    I'm nanomage and I reset nanopool... Only time my nanopool is a problem is when i'm at an alien raid and gotta give 10+ people the 5k acs

    As for Mongo rage being a huge advantage in pvp, imo we lack the perks to make it useful.
    Last edited by Rubera; Apr 10th, 2006 at 16:01:20.
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubera
    I'm nanomage and I reset nanopool... Only time my nanopool is a problem is when i'm at an alien raid and gotta give 10+ people the 5k acs

    As for Mongo rage being a huge advantage in pvp, imo we lack the perks to make it useful.
    Regarding your first point, other than completly agreeing with the fact, I'm not sure what the claim was. Are you claiming that nanopool is actually an important NM benefit, compared to atrox/opi, and you bring yourself as an example, or are you claiming it is meaningless?

    As for the second point, I added your opinion next to the description of MR. I think it doesn't matter the bottom line thought, that Atrox is the best breed for endgame PvP.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by muha
    Regarding your first point, other than completly agreeing with the fact, I'm not sure what the claim was. Are you claiming that nanopool is actually an important NM benefit, compared to atrox/opi, and you bring yourself as an example, or are you claiming it is meaningless?
    I'm saying it is meaningless. Thought it was obvious enough when I said I had reset it
    Last edited by Rubera; Apr 10th, 2006 at 16:24:47.
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  10. #10
    As a nanomage Engineer myself, I find the only time I use my entire nano pool is when I am casting both pets and buffing them both up. At that point, I hit Genius and am ready to go.

    At 162, my Nano pool points, on the abilities tab, is in the 500's somewhere. (I don't recall the exact number)

    As long as you have the nano to cast your bots and buffs, I see no need to go overboard with putting points into the Nano Pool.
    Last edited by Zzart; Apr 10th, 2006 at 16:33:34.
    ** I don't do typo's, I am just testing your knowledge of Vocabulary.
    ** How do you know you cannot achieve something if you never personally try it?
    Zzart 207 NM Eng
    SoldierZzart 220 Atrox Soldier

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubera
    I'm saying it is meaningless. Thought it was obvious enough when I said I had reset it
    You reset it since you are NM. Atrox can't reset it cause he sucks in nano pool, hence nano pool is the most important thing in the world.
    Just one way to understand it, and of course I agree with you, just wanted to make sure you think what I thought you think.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  12. #12
    Nanomage:
    Easiest to equip symbs at mid-game.

    I don't think this has any truth in it. By far easier for opi/solitus at mid game. Agi/sense are very hard for nanomages and they are way harder to buf than int/psy. So I think soli/opi has actually way easier time with symbs than nm at mid-game.

    Solitus:
    Easiest to equip endgame symbs.

    Not totally sure this is true either. Agi/sense are hardest stats to buf and opi got piles of them. So opi might be breed having easiest time with symbs.

    Atrox:
    Hardest to put symbs in. Even 250 symbs are very hard at 220.

    I am not too sure about this either. Anyone have 220 trox and nanomage so they could tell how hard it was on each? Those two have clearly hardest time, but not too sure which one has more trouble.
    Last edited by Namel; Apr 10th, 2006 at 18:10:24.
    "then again, it's also been said by funcom that theye'll try improving pathing again somethime in the 16.x series"
    -Cenelia

    "God I hope not. I don't know how many more improvements we can take."
    -Spleenman

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Namel
    Nanomage:
    Easiest to equip symbs at mid-game.

    I don't think this has any truth in it. By far easier for opi/solitus at mid game. Agi/sense are very hard for nanomages and they are way harder to buf than int/psy. So I think soli/opi has actually way easier time with symbs than nm at mid-game.
    This one is from personal experience.
    I have made quite a fuss out of mid-game twinking, and my efforts are well documented. I have yet to see a soli/opi do better, and until I do I think I can say it as a fact.
    I think the reason it was easier for NM is that at midgame buffing one stat isn't that hard. Having int/psy taken care of leaves one stat only to buff. Keep in mind also that int/psy contradict with treat on imps, and at mid-game treat quite an issue. Being able to highly imp agi/sen without loosing treat also helps NM. At endgame of course even one stat is hard, and treat is less of an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Namel
    Solitus:
    Easiest to equip endgame symbs.

    Not totally sure this is true either. Agi/sense are hardest stats to buf and opi got piles of them. So opi might be breed having easiest time with symbs.
    I must admit I know little of opi engis, but as it seems from other threads the balanced abilities soli have seem to be enough for the best symbs, while opi seems to have some problems with str/sta/psy. If someone can personally testify otherwise I would change this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Namel
    Atrox:
    Hardest to put symbs in. Even 250 symbs are very hard at 220.

    I am not too sure about this either. Anyone have 220 trox and nanomage so they could tell how hard it was on each? Those two have clearly hardest time, but not too sure which one has more trouble.
    Obsessive claims even the 250 symbs (brain for sure) are undoable. NM can do the 250 brain for sure, and probably 270 symbs. It seems quite obvious to me that having to buff say, int, psy and agi, will be much harder than just having agi to take care of.

    All in all, what I say about symb equiping is based on common conceptions and experiences shared in these forums. If someone can personally testify that these are misconceptions, I'm sure we will all be happy to learn.
    Last edited by muha; Apr 11th, 2006 at 21:03:21.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by muha
    Obsessive claims even the 250 symbs (brain for sure) are undoable. NM can do the 250 brain for sure, and probably 270 symbs. It seems quite obvious to me that having to buff say, int, psy and agi, will be much harder than just having agi to take care of.

    All in all, what I say about symb equiping is based on common conceptions and experiences shared in these forums. I someone can personally testify that these are misconceptions, I'm sure we will all be happy to learn.
    I'm a little bored atm so I calculated a bit:

    This and tt, sfa, fg, ns, icrt, treatment expertise, comp attr, ql300 city hq, nutrition bar.. should enable you to put on the 250 brain as atrox at 220.. If you're a pistolero ;p

    I can say it was a lot easier than that as nanomage, and I did it at 217 without burden
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by muha
    Are you claiming that nanopool is actually an important NM benefit, compared to atrox/opi, and you bring yourself as an example, or are you claiming it is meaningless?
    Personally I do see having more nano being a benefit to a person, it doesnt really help them to be a better character per say but the benefit is there and since shadowland the nanomage should use everything it can in way of benefits..

    As for nano pools with other breeds, the atrox has quite a hard time keeping nano at lower levels as does the opifex (speaking from a 150 atrox doctor which is now deleted and a 127 opi trader)

    Id gladly give some of my health for more nano being I didnt have to turn pale and add a sensor over my eyes like levar burton in star-trek.. with bio line i never really have that much need of getting health since I keep my pets trimmed to keep agro on them...

    Mr. Naota 'Takun' FuriKuri
    Grenadearchy Online
    Takun - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Crit Monster - Overlord of Mortar Kombat
    Grenades - Grenade Engineer [Equipt] - Leveling Monster - Advisor of Mortar Kombat

    Grenade Infos
    Pure DPS - [Setup] - 1701 Fling to cap Sloth - 1% crit is equal to ~28+ damage
    Agg/Def: 100% - 1440 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 150 Ranged Init to cap Sloth
    Agg/Def: 0% - 2640 Nano Init to insta cast Isotos - 1650 Ranged Init to cap Sloth

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by muha
    This one is from personal experience.
    I have made quite a fuss out of mid-game twinking, and my efforts are well documented.
    I guess our definition of "mid-game" is the problem. I was thinking 190-215 range as mid game.
    "then again, it's also been said by funcom that theye'll try improving pathing again somethime in the 16.x series"
    -Cenelia

    "God I hope not. I don't know how many more improvements we can take."
    -Spleenman

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Namel
    I guess our definition of "mid-game" is the problem. I was thinking 190-215 range as mid game.
    I was thinking more TL5-TL6, maybe very early TL7.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

  18. #18
    Well assuming your going tradeskills and not dd all the cons of the nm go away. A non dd wont be attacked as much thus hps isntas much an issue as it is with opi. Also as your not going dd your not gona need to wear and not be oe commandos. And finaly the difference in he final symbs is more then made up with the bonuses nms get IF your not going dd and instead going tradeskills.

    The real bugger is going opi or trox for raw dd and then fitting enough stuff on.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick
    sticky plz
    We are not stickying all the guides, or we will have nothing but sticky threads. Instead we have one sticky thread with pointers to all the other informational threads.
    RK1:220/30 Alicia "Muhandes" Jolt General of Destiny. My setup/A quick screenshot
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    "Guides": 210 symbs before 170, 220 symbs before 180, NM Engi Twinking 205, 210, 215, 220.
    WTB ql150 weapons, Grand Armbands, Eye of the Evening Star.

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