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Thread: New Assist idea

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Artyomis View Post
    Kite hill peeps will never understand how to play AO w/o assist, really.
    Assist is totally useless, any action can be successfully and effectively done without it in any game situation, and yea, it ruins tower PvP greatly.
    Since 2005 i've heard millions of screams regarding instant deaths at tower pvp, that happen only because you're called.
    Remove assist and lets get more skilled playerbase at last.
    Meh, instagib is still very possible without /assist - I PvP in a couple MMOs without an assist function, and trust me a good PvP team will follow the calls and instagib the entire opposing blob in quick succession.

    It *will* prevent less experienced/aware PvP teams from executing instakills, but it won't really help against experienced people, *especially* since tab-order is the same across clients anyway. Maybe if tab order were randomized for each person it would be closer to a fix, and require a bit more brainpower.
    -= Make the new engine look even better. Don't forget to post a screenshot! =-

  2. #22
    +1, I support this motion. For PvM reasons actually. Assist makes raids booring as hell. It also makes unattended gameplay a reality. With follow + assist, raids are pretty much unattended content. To the point of watching TV when raiding.

    Imagine AO without assist? You look wherr you shoot? Unthinkable. Make it so now, before its to late. Can we start a petition?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgesmith View Post
    +1, I support this motion. For PvM reasons actually. Assist makes raids booring as hell. It also makes unattended gameplay a reality. With follow + assist, raids are pretty much unattended content. To the point of watching TV when raiding.

    Imagine AO without assist? You look wherr you shoot? Unthinkable. Make it so now, before its to late. Can we start a petition?
    The problem I have with you people and most of your suggestions, is that most of them have nothing to actually do with the game, only that yall are bored.

    Yall do areas, die a lot in them, but when other people figure out how to bypass the hard parts and the exact pattern or profession needed yall go in still die but eventually get use to it.
    After that, of course its way to easy and it must be time to make it harder once yall have all yall need from it. This way yall can get a challenge (And still be bored, or give up easily), while everyone else gets screwed. (You are entitled to this, cause you also pay for the game) But everyone else also deserves a chance to.

    BTW George removing assist will not change anything, people will just tab through slowly until they find the right mob and the raid will become alot slower.
    Also from the sound of it you are just DD in the raid, if you want excitement use a doc or enf. And dont use ingenuity (legal cheats). When you do something a lot of times its going to become boring, that has nothing to do with AO or assist.
    Last edited by edmaster3; Apr 19th, 2014 at 00:25:30.

  4. #24
    You know the funny thing about people saying assist will make PvMers 'better' is that the reality is that many people don't use it. I use it as a doc, or if I"m doing something like informant and watching what mob the npc is fighting. I'm against removing it because I strongly feel that funcom doesn't need to do anything to make playing a doctor more boring and annoying than they already did by introducing the Lost Eden changes.

    Also, as someone that has led a crapton of public raids I can tell you that most people don't blindly use assist. At least that's my observation when there's an established caller, a blob of 10 mobs in pande and they're all dieing at approximately the same rate with no one massively aoeing.
    You can find me at:
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    I use it as a doc.
    ^ Ditto, across all healers, across all MMOs worth mentioning.
    Ancestors could hear what is happening now
    They would turn in their graves
    they would all be ashamed - that the land of the free
    has been written in chains
    And I know what I want - when the timing is right
    then I'll take what is mine
    I am the clansman

  6. #26
    I you want to make me develop carpal tunnel syndrome while I keep your gimp ass alive on the 12th hour, think again.
    The same goes for all healers of some quality.
    Ancestors could hear what is happening now
    They would turn in their graves
    they would all be ashamed - that the land of the free
    has been written in chains
    And I know what I want - when the timing is right
    then I'll take what is mine
    I am the clansman

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Also, as someone that has led a crapton of public raids I can tell you that most people don't blindly use assist. At least that's my observation when there's an established caller, a blob of 10 mobs in pande and they're all dieing at approximately the same rate with no one massively aoeing.
    Blind tab pressing is just as difficult as pressing assist. Yes you can see the mobs dying, but think for a second what if AO and it's mobs actually had some artificial intelligence and was even remotely difficult > everyone picking their own target would result in a disaster.

    That's how it should be in pvp too. People should pick their own targets and pick the right target in order to be successful and benefit their side as much as possible. The reason people find their professions weak, boring or lackluster is because they're NOT PLAYING THEM RIGHT, because of /assist they never learned to. They were taught that they're supposed to assist and do damage and with time effectively nullifying the great diversity of professions this game has (testament to that is endless whining about how prof x doesn't do enough damage > fc hands them an op weapon > /assist AS wars yawn I'm a pvper).

    Certain profs in this game have debuffs so OP they can severely cripple or completely shut down another prof in mass pvp but hey that's not enough because they can't kill them in a duel.

    It's kind of a paradox that fc who cared so little for this game and community managed to create the biggest community of spoiled lazy players I have seen in any game. That's the harsh truth.

  8. #28
    Why I think people use /assist for combat (to do damage) in PvM

    1. Some people do not fully know the encounter and its used as a training tool to help them focus on the proper mob.

    2. Encounters where it is extremely important to minimize damage being done to the tank quickly.

    3. Encounters where a NPC is on your side and fighting a mob and it makes most sense to attack what they're attacking (i.e. Alappa/informant)

    4. To maximize damage potential by having multiple callers so people are not wasting perks/specials.

    The 4 above can be circumvented, but it isn't always a lack of knowledge, lazy playstyle, etc that might result in someone using the /assist command.

    Also, sometimes it is just a matter of convenience. If I'm debuffing mobs on my doctor, sure it only takes yet another mouse movement to get back to the primary damage target but using /assist makes it go that much faster. Convenience is the reason why so many people use multi-button mouse binds and keyboard binds in almost every MMO.. are we really having a debate on whether or not we should manually click something or use a shortcut to get to a target?

    It's also worth mentioning that weird lag situations not necessarily caused by the user's PC or internet connection can also make some pvm areas annoying.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 19th, 2014 at 15:24:45.
    You can find me at:
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  9. #29
    that edit
    Last edited by Pafpuf; Apr 19th, 2014 at 19:13:43.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    They were taught that they're supposed to assist and do damage and with time effectively nullifying the great diversity of professions this game has (testament to that is endless whining about how prof x doesn't do enough damage > fc hands them an op weapon > /assist AS wars yawn I'm a pvper).

    Certain profs in this game have debuffs so OP they can severely cripple or completely shut down another prof in mass pvp but hey that's not enough because they can't kill them in a duel.

    It's kind of a paradox that fc who cared so little for this game and community managed to create the biggest community of spoiled lazy players I have seen in any game. That's the harsh truth.
    Decided to make a post to respond to yours. Most of what you said really doesn't seem even remotely related to any point I made int he post you quoted.. so I"m guessing you just quoted me because something I wrote sparked an idea in your mind.

    Anyway, it wasn't Funcom that barked to people that they need to use /assist and put players in that mentality.. it was other players. I don't know who you are in game so no idea which server you played on.. but I know that, at the very least, the RK2 faction based Pande raids (both Omni and Clan) played a huge part in people having the 'must use /assist to figure out what mob to hit' mentality. Couple that with tara and tower wars and again, it wasn't Funcom but raidleaders that encouraged that way of life.

    I've had some good times in notum wars but some of the most mindless, boring encounters have been tower wars run by raidleaders that couldn't do more than bark out 'assist.. ASSIST PEOPLE!!!!' along with strings of demeaning comments explaining why everyone but them sucks.

    I used to run First Look raids in Pande and APF for newbies. When, in Pande for example, we'd have a brand new caller people would start complaining that they weren't calling fast enough. My comment? "You know the kill order, if the caller isn't fast enough just kill what you know is next.. no big deal". That's me, leading newbies.. people that had never stepped foot in Pande before and the raids were 97% successful over the couple years that I did them. In my raids I explained how /assist works, how it could be beneficial to use but at the same time people need to play their class. The same applies to APF's... know the kill order, do what you need to do based off of your class = win.

    TLDR: You want to have a group of skilled players then learn to lead them as such and discourage the sheep mentality by explaining how things work, what diff profs are expected to do in certain scenarios and hold people accountable for doing their 'job' in encounters (be it PvM or PvP). It is easier to just have people use /assist rather than teach them why the guy they're assisting is choosing the targets they choose, but in the long run it is better to educate.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 19th, 2014 at 16:03:12.
    You can find me at:
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  11. #31
    And what better way to educate them than by removing the one thing that works against it ? People won't slack if they can't.

  12. #32
    There is always going to be some sort of way to slack. If history hasn't taught us much it should have at least taught us that AO players are pretty clever when it comes to getting around game mechanics.

    At the end of the day, stop playing with people that you feel are slackers and your problem is essentially solved. Or, if someone is slacking, take the time to help them. Taking a useful tool away isn't going to solve the problem of unskilled lazy players.

    Don't institute a change that will affect my gameplay because you really want to prod someone else into being a better player.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 19th, 2014 at 18:57:16.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    There is always going to be some sort of way to slack.
    I agree, but they'd be a lot easier to recognize. The mechanics of /assist allow a huge majority to slack without making it look so. I have personally done entire raids with 2 buttons and barely paying any attention, spamming /assist and the pvm one-button-to-fire-them-all ending up high in the dd chart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    If history hasn't taught us much it should have at least taught us that AO players are pretty clever when it comes to getting around game mechanics.
    Most exploits are discovered by accident (if that's what you're talking about) and have very little if any to do with one's actual gaming prowess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    At the end of the day, stop playing with people that you feel are slackers and your problem is essentially solved. Or, if someone is slacking, take the time to help them. Taking a useful tool away isn't going to solve the problem of unskilled lazy players.
    It's not my problem, it's the entire community's problem. Help them how, paste them the assist macro a few more times ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Don't institute a change that will affect my gameplay because you really want to prod someone else into being a better player.
    Sorry but laziness and selfishness aren't good enough reasons to oppose change.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    I agree, but they'd be a lot easier to recognize. The mechanics of /assist allow a huge majority to slack without making it look so. I have personally done entire raids with 2 buttons and barely paying any attention, spamming /assist and the pvm one-button-to-fire-them-all ending up high in the dd chart.
    So you site laziness as something you're trying to stamp out while siting laziness as the reason why you want to remove /assist (too lazy to figure out who is slacking otherwise) and even stated you're lazy yourself. Are you for real?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Most exploits are discovered by accident (if that's what you're talking about) and have very little if any to do with one's actual gaming prowess.
    I wasn't talking about exploits at all. I said getting around game mechanics. Look at how the average vet plays the game and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't think I should have to go into detail on what is now common knowledge but if you need examples let me know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    It's not my problem, it's the entire community's problem. Help them how, paste them the assist macro a few more times ?
    First, it isn't the entire community's problem because the issue you're having with players has not been a problem for me. Second, I've already answered this question. If I find that someone is slacking I either 1. Stop playing with them or 2. Help them via education. Pasting an assist macro is exactly what I already stated I didn't do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Sorry but laziness and selfishness aren't good enough reasons to oppose change.
    Liking something as it is doesn't equate to being lazy or selfish and if that was your take from all that I've said then either you're misunderstanding all that I've written or I'm doing a poor job of communicating.

    As someone that's spent a lot of time trying to educate other players via raids, guides and in game seminars/classes, I can tell you that the only laziness I see is coming from people who rather remove tools than interact with other players in a meaningful/fruitful way. This whole 'remove assist' thing is just a really backhanded elitist suggestion based on false assumptions about how other people play the game. If the people you're playing with are as dumb and disinterested in playing their toons as your support of this suggestion indicates, then I seriously recommend you find some new people to play with. Join a new org if your orgmates are all reliant on /assist or maybe find new PvP partners to team up with. I get annoyed with undergeared noobs too but as that is only a portion of the population I allow them to play the way they want and move on.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 19th, 2014 at 20:39:37.
    You can find me at:
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    So you site laziness as something you're trying to stamp out while siting laziness as the reason why you want to remove /assist (too lazy to figure out who is slacking otherwise)?
    Nope, just pointing out how much it dumbs the game down. I wasn't being lazy, just busy doing other things as well but thanks (read thanks sarcastically) to /assist I made a significant contribution without even trying.




    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    I wasn't talking about exploits at all. I said getting around game mechanics. Look at how the average vet plays the game and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't think I should have to go into detail on what is now common knowledge but if you need examples let me know.
    Well then lets see them get around losing /assist

    The average vet is shockingly bad, fyi. I've learned that after coming back from a long break.


    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    First, it isn't the entire community's problem because the issue you're having with players has not been a problem for me. If I find that someone is slacking I either 1. Stop playing with them or 2. Help them via education. Pasting an assist macro is exactly what I already stated I didn't do.
    If I wanted to educate masses I'd become a teacher. What I can do however is encourage means for people to educate themselves.



    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    As someone that's spent a lot of time trying to educate other players via raids, guides and in game seminars/classes, I can tell you that the only laziness I see is coming from people who rather remove tools than interact with other players in a meaningful/fruitful way.
    That's all nice but in the end of the day /assist is generally used to simplify actions by not paying attention or putting any effort.

    Few posts back you listed some reasons you think people use /assist in pvm. None of them are valid because AO's pvm is a joke in difficulty. The only reason it may appear difficult is because of it's ease players easily and often become reckless but rarely with bad consequences because of easymode. For example it takes me about half an hour quad logged to get to TNH and kill it, without multiboxing and without assist. Good old alttabing. Does it sound like a challenge ? Yes. Is it a challenge ? Not really, because for years I've been playing my chars myself instead of having /assist do everything for me and pvm in this game is insanely easy.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Blind tab pressing is just as difficult as pressing assist. Yes you can see the mobs dying, but think for a second what if AO and it's mobs actually had some artificial intelligence and was even remotely difficult > everyone picking their own target would result in a disaster.

    That's how it should be in pvp too. People should pick their own targets and pick the right target in order to be successful and benefit their side as much as possible. The reason people find their professions weak, boring or lackluster is because they're NOT PLAYING THEM RIGHT, because of /assist they never learned to. They were taught that they're supposed to assist and do damage and with time effectively nullifying the great diversity of professions this game has (testament to that is endless whining about how prof x doesn't do enough damage > fc hands them an op weapon > /assist AS wars yawn I'm a pvper).

    Certain profs in this game have debuffs so OP they can severely cripple or completely shut down another prof in mass pvp but hey that's not enough because they can't kill them in a duel.

    It's kind of a paradox that fc who cared so little for this game and community managed to create the biggest community of spoiled lazy players I have seen in any game. That's the harsh truth.
    Lets put and end to this.
    1. FC created a /duel command for all those with deluded ideas about war.
    2. With the pvp professions having the ability to alpha kill in less than 10 secs, its still a yawn war.
    3. All you complainning people need to shut up and realize tower war is a WAR, stop your misguided concepts of honor, fair play and one on one battles. Yall can go fight to rack up kills but the rest of us are fighting to win.
    Stop complaining that you get target first cause you can alpha kill most professions fast and dont get a chance to.

    To Pafpuf and a few others, you cannot force people to learn, if things get to hard and annoying they leave. Its always the people who already crossed the bridge that complains that it was to short
    People will always find a way around a challenge, that's why ao is so great.

    Its only a matter of time before yall demand tower wars become duels
    Last edited by edmaster3; Apr 19th, 2014 at 20:43:17.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    For example it takes me about half an hour quad logged to get to TNH and kill it, without multiboxing and without assist. Good old alttabing. Does it sound like a challenge ?
    No, it doesn't sound like a challenge.. wth are you talking about? I triple log TNH in less than half hour, alt-tabbed without using assist while chit chatting with people on voice chat and watching netflix on my 2nd monitor. What does that have to do with anything? I use /assist and I still know how to play my toons.. ALL OF THEM. So if /assist, in your mind, is some sort of gateway drug to incompetence and laziness then I guess I'm the exception to the rule or, more likely, its not a gateway drug to laziness and there are other issues in the game (and perhaps with the mentality of the individual player) that lead to sloppy gameplay and fubar toons.

    The cool thing about all of this is that there's no way that funcom is going to remove assist so this is one of those back and forths over nothing.

    /thread
    Last edited by Traderjill; Apr 19th, 2014 at 20:54:35.
    You can find me at:
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by edmaster3 View Post
    snip random rant
    Every profession is a pvp profession, it's just a matter of having the right perspective. In this game however everyone is deluded with the idea "my prof needs more damage", completely ignoring the 3+ bars of nanos and perks they have.

    The beauty of mmorpgs is the diversity between classes/professions. AO's community thrives towards eliminating that diversity however, everyone just wants to alpha everyone else one way or the other. Sadly funcom caters to that and the only idea they can come up with is "here, have a better AS weapon".

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    No, it doesn't sound like a challenge.. wth are you talking about? I triple log TNH in less than half hour, alt-tabbed without using assist while chit chatting with people on voice chat and watching netflix on my 2nd monitor. What does that have to do with anything? I use /assist and I still know how to play my toons.. ALL OF THEM. So if /assist, in your mind, is some sort of gateway drug to incompetence and laziness then I guess I'm the exception to the rule?

    /thread
    Maybe you are, I never claimed you aren't. Heck I don't even know your ingame chars I love the way you worded it though, /assist being the gateway drug to incompetence and laziness because that's exactly what it is.
    Last edited by Pafpuf; Apr 19th, 2014 at 21:02:45.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Every profession is a pvp profession, it's just a matter of having the right perspective. In this game however everyone is deluded with the idea "my prof needs more damage", completely ignoring the 3+ bars of nanos and perks they have.

    The beauty of mmorpgs is the diversity between classes/professions. AO's community thrives towards eliminating that diversity however, everyone just wants to alpha everyone else one way or the other. Sadly funcom caters to that and the only idea they can come up with is "here, have a better AS weapon".


    Maybe you are, I never claimed you aren't. Heck I don't even know your ingame chars I love the way you worded it though, /assist being the gateway drug to incompetence and laziness because that's exactly what it is.
    Yes every profession can press Q to attack but that doenst make it a pvp profession. If you obviously believe that all professions are pvp professions at every lvl, then I am wasting time using logic or common sense on you.
    Getting ideological is the beaten mans way out of an argument.
    Funcom caters to a lot of bad and waste full ideas like this one yes. But people including you, just go for the best profession and weapons that let them win.

    /assist being the gateway drug to incompetence and laziness because that's exactly what it is.
    That statement is completely wrong. People are lazy and inexperienced long before they even get a chance to use /assist. You lvl new people in your org or friends to 220 in 2 months while they sit and get kited then follow you in inf missions, and then wonder why they dont know what they are doing and still quit.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by edmaster3 View Post
    Yes every profession can press Q to attack but that doenst make it a pvp profession. If you obviously believe that all professions are pvp professions at every lvl, then I am wasting time using logic or common sense on you.
    And I'm not talking about every level, I'm talking endgame. Low levels are crazy imbalanced I'm well aware of that, that's why it's called the leveling process and not the pvping process. Some people of course thrive on said imbalances and try to create pvp where it shouldn't be in the first place. That's their problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by edmaster3 View Post
    But people including you, just go for the best profession and weapons that let them win.
    You talk about losing arguments yet you attempt personal attacks without knowing me or anything about me, now that will not win you any argument fyi.

    If you used logic and common sense then you'd be fine with support professions being support instead of focusing on getting an AS weapon on and spamming the hell out of their assist+as buttons.

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