18.7 Trader Changes

[Traderjill]

Item Shop

• A trader shop access item has been made. Using this item will allow you to use the trader shop (specialist commerce) without being a trader.

Trader

• Trader skill drains have been updated. Traders will no longer be able to skill drain themselves and the amount they take from the target no longer exceeds what they buff themselves with. The duration of the debuff on the target has also been drastically reduced. All the skill drain nano programs now have a line cooldown (one for ransack and another for deprive.) which allows the trader to multitask a bit more than before.
  
• Trader AAO/AAD line has been separated in to two different lines, but have also been placed in the Ransack/deprive nano line to prevent the Trader's target from getting too debuffed (However, the trader will be able to stack the benefits from both lines.) The AAO drains will be in the same nanoline as the deprive drains and will drain AAO and Critical Increase (the values lost from the actual deprive/ransack line.). The AAD drains will be in the same nanoline as the deprive drains and will drain the AAD and Critical Decrease stat of the target. These two drains will be more effective against NPCs than the skill drains.
  
• Trader GTH should no longer be possible to cast on yourself. The line cooldown of this nano should be 60 seconds. It should drain the target of 10% nano every second and give this back to the caster. If the drain is overwritten or removed from the target, the trader will not gain any nano.
  
• Traders Shutdown Skills is now a lover level version of GTH that is not possible to cast on yourself. The line cooldown of this nano should be 120 seconds. It should drain the target of 1% nano every second and give this back to the caster. If the drain is overwritten or removed from the target, the trader will not gain any nano.
  
• Trader Damage to Nano Line should no longer treat breeds differently. At the end of the nano formula, the Trader's remaining nano reserves will be set to 0 instead of getting drained for 1 minute. The highest damage to nano value will last for 15 seconds and 60% of the damage taken will be transferred to the trader's nano pool. The lowestdamage to nano value will last for 15 seconds and 40% of the damage taken will be transferred to the trader's nano pool. The first nano in the line will have a line cooldown of 2 minutes, the highest nano in the line will have a cooldown of 1 minute. These nano prorgams will not require any ncu. The lowest level nano in this line will be possible to buy from the OFAB nano vendor.
  
• Trader Health and Nano Over Time Drain Line (Enemy's enemy line) is no longer possible to cast on yourself. The lowest level nano in this line (previously Lesser Nanobot Defense) should drain your target for 100 health and nano every 2 seconds for 1 minute and that it heals the fight target of this target for the same amount. The target you cast this on must have a nano target. If the drain is overwritten or removed from the target, the enemy's fight target will not gain any nano/health. The highest level nano in this line (Your Enemy's Enemy is your Friend) should drain your target for 500 health and nano every 2 seconds for 1 minute and that it heals the fight target of this target for the same amount. The target you cast this on must have a nano target. If the drain is overwritten or removed from the target, the enemy's fight target will not gain any nano/health. Both nano programs will have a line cooldown of 180 seconds.
  
• The trader's Damage drain nano should drain the target of 200 points and transfers these points to the caster. This nano formula can't be cast on yourself and should have a line cooldown of 10 seconds.

Pretty massive changes trader side, kinda hard to believe there hasn't been a thread started to discuss.

[Jovial]

Pretty massive changes trader side, kinda hard to believe there hasn't been a thread started to discuss.

As a leveling Trader, I was actually waiting for someone like you to start the thread after doing some testing. So, tell me whether I should be happy or sad over the changes... because I have no idea. Thanks.

[Esssch]

As a leveling Trader, I was actually waiting for someone like you to start the thread after doing some testing. So, tell me whether I should be happy or sad over the changes... because I have no idea. Thanks.

From what Jill has told me in other conversations, it seems to overall be a buff to the Trader profession, but it drastically changes the gameplay. So if you don't mind changed gameplay (which shouldn't be too tough for you, since you're leveling still), it should be mostly a buff for you.

[Louderer789]

I actually think the changes to drains are (in general) pretty cool. Skill drains now only have to cast enough to keep them updated in pvm, the rest of the time you use the AAO or AAD drains to either reduce damage on tank/yourself or increase team damage on the mob.

Obviously in PVP there are some side effects, but they are reducing durations on everything from lowly roots to the most hated UBT and drains, you had to expect it. I kinda like it. Sure you can't keep the whole battlestation drained but still ;p

I'm surprised they didn't bother doing anything with the useless/bugged charms and AC debuffs while they were making all these nano changes.

[Traderjill]

I have a lot more testing that I personally want to do (including rolling a couple lower level traders) but I can provide my experience/thoughts on 18.7 thus far (from the perspective of a 220 PvM trader in a crit setup).

• Drains last 20 seconds on their target, with the positive effect lasting 5 minutes on the Trader. This includes Divest Damage which basically gives us a constant additional 155 damage (keeping in mind that divest damage is +200 points but will overwrite the +45 provided by Unstoppable Killer).
  
• Corporate Protection (-300 AAD, -30 Crit Decrease) and Industrial Sabotage (-300 AAO, -30 Crit Increase) appear, by far, to be the most effective drains to use on mobs (as opposed to Nanite Improved Divest/Plunder which drain 275 points of nano/weapon skill each). The 30 Crit Decrease drain on the mob, in my setup, pretty much makes it such that I rarely see a non-crit hit. This drain also makes the loss of Shutdown Skills in PvM a non-issue as it only lasted 3 seconds.
  
• In terms of fighting strategy, thus far, I pretty much pre-drain whenever possible since the effect lasts 5 min then just maintain Corporate Protection on the mob I'm fighting. Obviously this is situational based off of how hard/often the mob you're fighting is hitting you. Thus far I've only been experimenting on inferno dynas and, as I discovered a couple months back, I can pretty much kill most of them without any drains running at all. The exception to that, for me/my skill level/etc, was Scary spider that, on live, I have to kite and still generally managed to kill me at some point. I was, however, able to solo Scary Spider toe-to-toe on TestLive for what its worth.
  
• Drains are now breaking mezzes. I'm not sure if this is working as intended or some sort of bug but for now, that is the case.
  
• My feel is that if I opt to fully utilize my toolset (i.e. casting all 3 drains while maintaining an AC drain), then I feel like I'm on a constant mad rush of casting and I no longer 'feel' like I'm playing a Trader. The result is that in order to maintain the playstyle that I've come to enjoy I just have to use only what is absolutely necessary (which is why I just maintain Corporate Strategy and AC debuffs).
  
• My opinion is that the target duration of 20 seconds is not long enough. I think extending it to 40 seconds would be more reasonable and prevent me from feeling like I'm playing a NT.

I'm really concerned about how this plays out at lower levels so I'll more than likely produce a level 60ish and then a level 150ish trader. I recall a time, on all of my traders, where drains didn't land the first time (heck, they aren't landing the first time at 220 on some mobs without a NR debuff and others regardless). Seems like the line cooldown kicks in whether the drain lands or not, however.

I also would love to see a list of which mobs are/are not drainable so if other people are testing things out and able to help, that would be awesome. Probably would make sense to include how much PM/TS skill you have and whether landing the drain required a NR debuff or not. Last night a GM (or Bug Hunter) on Test chain spawned a bunch of different bosses and I really wish I was jotting down notes. The mobs were RK and SL and most of my drains didn't land (but I wasn't NR debuffing). I honestly tend to play my trader solo so I'm not sure if that is the current norm on Live or not. I only know that my drains don't land on Beast.. don't believe I've done any of the other endgame content directly on the trader as it really isn't a 'needed' profession (always end up on a doc/crat/sold/eng).


Anyway, that's about all I have for now. I'll reply when I have more and I'm very curious to hear what other people have observed.

[Oliveerz]

Sounds like traders will be more fun to play!

[Cratertina]

Exactly.... having 6-7 traders maybe even more including one 220... These changes sound good to me. Overall more fun. Right now trader totally blows. This will make it more dynamic and in my eyes more fun.

[Louderer789]

[*]Corporate Protection (-300 AAD, -30 Crit Decrease) and Industrial Sabotage (-300 AAO, -30 Crit Increase) appear, by far, to be the most effective drains to use on mobs (as opposed to Nanite Improved Divest/Plunder which drain 275 points of nano/weapon skill each). The 30 Crit Decrease drain on the mob, in my setup, pretty much makes it such that I rarely see a non-crit hit. This drain also makes the loss of Shutdown Skills in PvM a non-issue as it only lasted 3 seconds.

Draining actual attack skills has never had any effect on mobs, and they've moved the -AAO and -crit increase that is currently on nanite drains to the AAO/AAD drain lines. So skill drain is only to keep your own AR up (and PVP). Can you make a friend on test and see how draining a mob's critdecrease affects other profs damage? I can't imagine the average mob has much critdecrease and I'm not sure FC's intention is to provide constant crits against whatever is drained.

[*]My feel is that if I opt to fully utilize my toolset (i.e. casting all 3 drains while maintaining an AC drain), then I feel like I'm on a constant mad rush of casting and I no longer 'feel' like I'm playing a Trader. The result is that in order to maintain the playstyle that I've come to enjoy I just have to use only what is absolutely necessary (which is why I just maintain Corporate Strategy and AC debuffs).

I feel like if FC made the debuffs last 1-2min on npcs and left it at 20-30s on players that would be a good balance (for UBT and other such debuffs as well). I doubt FC will do that though. And having things work differently in PVP/PVM can be frustrating.

[Metafizis]

Exactly.... having 6-7 traders maybe even more including one 220... These changes sound good to me. Overall more fun. Right now trader totally blows. This will make it more dynamic and in my eyes more fun.

You remind me of Shareida who complained traders cant solo a city raid. No offense but I dont think you even grasped trader potential to evaluate these changes as "more dynamic and fun".

How is taking out toolsets, reducing debuffs values, reducing debuff duration, increasing debuff cooldown, unable to give yourself nano (questinable mechanic) while leaving static defense same - "more dynamic and more fun" ?

Meanwhile, fixers get ES, shades can sneak mid combat, and Adventurer gaind SL essence and a aimedshot buff that is higher then the previus top AS buff by agents (yea, the guys with 2 handed aimed shot rifles).

If anything, if you didnt play trader till now, you sure will be playing one of the above professions from now on, because these changes won't make any trader more likely to get in raids.

What has changed that it would make you play your trader more dynamicaly or more fun ?

Casting CP every 30s on a mob is very static, not dynamic. Increasing YEEIYF cooldown from 2 to 3 minutes just makes you more prone to go splat in any pvm soloability and makes you less able to heal teamates in team encounters.

*Looking forward to more Pathogen videos.

[Jovial]

Big thanks to everyone doing actual testing and posting good feedback/info in this thread. Though, we could do with a little less, "but, but look at the buffs other professions got!!!" Stop, you sound like a toddler.

[Traderjill]

Can you make a friend on test and see how draining a mob's critdecrease affects other profs damage? I can't imagine the average mob has much critdecrease and I'm not sure FC's intention is to provide constant crits against whatever is drained.

Why don't you make a friend on test and do it? I have a ridiculous amount of stuff that I want to personally test, not really taking requests at the moment. I've only managed to even try out 4 of the professions at endgame and still haven't done a single endgame raid yet. Not trying to be rude at all though I know it might come off that way but I'm not an expert trader. I play my trader very well and I've gotten good at soloing inf dynas with her (and apparently I can do some things in Alb as well) but that's about it. I have a standard shotgun, crit setup and haven't really tried any other weapon type or non-cookie cutter gear strategy.
To be honest, I started this thread with the hopes of getting feedback from the experts.

I feel like if FC made the debuffs last 1-2min on npcs and left it at 20-30s on players that would be a good balance (for UBT and other such debuffs as well). I doubt FC will do that though. And having things work differently in PVP/PVM can be frustrating.

Having a 20 sec duration on drains is frustrating, for me at least, and that zaps away the fun I have playing my trader. If the drains lasted even 40 seconds on the target I think that would be enough to change the entire feel of my toon back to something I'll enjoy playing. The people above that said that this sounds like these change will bring the fun back to their trader because they're not fun/good now have a completely different current (Live) perspective than my own. I already have a lot of fun on my traders as they have a diverse and powerful toolset that is quite often underestimated in PvM. Even my 157 trader was soloing mantis queen, soloed the scheol quest, can solo an ado cata boss, etc. I've never seen it as a crippled profession by any means.. I'm usually the one doing the crippling (i.e. that's what being a trader is all about).

As a sidenote, I tend not to compare my trader to other professions because there's no comparison. My traders, on live, play differently than any other toon on my account and I love that and want it to continue. Right now, on Test, soloing on my trader feels almost the same as soloing on my doctor (mad race to constantly refresh nanos on a mob). I don't really care much for that, tbh.

[Raggy]

Honestly, reading the patch notes does nothing but fill me with dread. I honestly cannot see where any of these supposed buffs might be.

Then again, I can't actually get on test with my Trader to try them out so whatever. MA Trader has probably been all but destroyed.

[Dogtrauma]

I honestly cannot see where any of these supposed buffs might be.

The buffs would be that the trader buff part of drains will be up for 5 min at a time, this includes divest damage and AAD/AAO drains, i think that by cycling debuffs you might mitigate the loss of debuffing power entirely. I would guess that the MA trader is marginally stronger in PvE since you will have Divest damage and an additional 300 AAO and AAD to make up for lost debuffing durations.

I'm not saying there's no loss but i think it looks like a pretty small one.

[Cratertina]

@Dogtrauma Exactly that.

Speaking of promised changes? Where is traders pet? Trader could very much do with a sidekick.

And of fixer, advy... i'd never pick those two over trader in pvm content. Trader is way better for killing dynas compared to those two. (Gameplay not power wise)

Finally with the awesome nerfs some other professions got, trader seems pretty well off.

[Metafizis]

Finally with the awesome nerfs some other professions got, trader seems pretty well off.

Trying to think of something constructive to write but all that comes to mind is LOL.

[Jovial]

Speaking of promised changes? Where is traders pet? Trader could very much do with a sidekick.

I'm still a leveling Trader, but even I could come up with a base concept for Trader pet(s) or new Charms. I find it almost comical that we've never had a "bribe" line of nanos that's either a charm or pet nano that costs credits (I know they did this for another Trader nano line). It just seems well within a Trader's skill set to call on some paid thugs or flat-out bribe an NPC with credits to switch sides.

[Cratertina]

So did some proper testing today...

Live vs city general, same char same gear (Alphas, anger of xan, crit scope, allaround ai armor, scout and css mix)

so live vs city general, 44 crit rate 157k damage per minute. Survivability - easy, just spamed damage and keept ac drains and regular drains up.

Test vs various high level mobs around ICC 72% crit rate, 166k per minute. Survivability? Easy.

So while testing this... OMG a 220 MP comes from behind pops an AS at me and starts ganking me..., I turn around in 10 seconds flat I had 300 AAO, 300 AAD and 275 drain on him. Bringing my attackrating up to 3560, then what? Alphaed the bastard(like who goes ganking people in testlive)


Overall trader changes are pure win for me. Survivability is better, playability is better due to buffs lasting 5 minutes. I mean 5 minutes of +550 skills, 300 AAO, 300 AAD, 30 crit, 30 -crit, 200add damage. And all of those can be renewed about as fast as you can cast expertise.

After that? Just spam 300 AAO drain on your enemy and use remainder of your time firing perks and plundering hp, or whatever you desire.

So don't tell me trader was nerfed. The only other char I have with 3560 AR is my soldier and trader has better perks... not to mention some debuffing ability. Few seconds of drains are better than nothing and with perks landing on 220 shield mp's, do you really need long cripling drains?

1. Wranglertina2 ( 381.221 / 177.300 / 61 / 50 / 81% / 6.252 )
2. VP - Operations ( 4.197 / 1.920 / 5 / 1 / 20% / 1.276 )
3. VP - Internal Affairs ( 3.985 / 1.800 / 5 / 2 / 40% / 1.276 )
4. VP - Public Relations ( 3.666 / 1.680 / 5 / 0 / 0% / 1.044 )
5. VP - Marketing ( 1.598 / 720 / 5 / 0 / 0% / 840 )


Why are pets still not working? after about 30 seconds they despawned....

This is damage dump of 250 cyborg dyna. 81% crit rate, how's that for nice?

Oh and .. :

You try to attack Cyborg Major General with AimedShot, but you miss!
You hit Cyborg Major General for 13000 points of Aimed Shot damage.

Overall, trader is bigger and better. The only thing you spam is -300 AAD and -30 crit decrease on mobs. That really buffs crit rate for entire team. Finally I can see an ideal DD team have a trader again.

[Jovial]

So did some proper testing today...

*Gasp!* You mean you didn't just blindly speculate from the live server that the sky was falling and everything was doomed to be terrible, because of impending [worst] patch [ever]?! How dare you do actual testing and post level-headed feedback, backed up by actual data!

On a completely serious note -- thanks for taking the time to test the changes and post. Even if it wasn't positive changes, this is what people needed to see. Actual, real testing of the changes on various NPCs.

Well done, sir.

[Cratertina]

Thank you Jovial... but to note, it was not level headed... the entire testing experience... after the tedious perk and hotbar setup... I was having a blast, one can see my typing went to hell due to all the excitement. Still when i look at gametime today, trader gets A+ for fun experience.

Out of all professions tested so far by me (Crat, Trader, NT, MP, Soldier) Trader is the biggest improvement over oldstyle.

[Traderjill]

Has anyone tested this on a lower level trader?