What we need for pvp to be comparable (CZ pls read)

[celestiness]

After discussing some stuff with Davedread..we came up with a few things. this is not a whine.but basically hard facts from several tests/experiments.

this is not about cheesy arena title fights etc...its about us being a viable force in outside pvp places like 2ho, mmd, tower battles etc.

This is also from the pvp point of view only. and the point of view of a lvl 200 MA who has been around the block in this game and with this proffession and tried out MANY different aspects/ideas till I ran out of IPR points.

First off..getting our crits is a step in the right direction..however its not enough. to much has changed for other toons. too many "uber" weapons out there that totally demolish our fists.

Our crits do less dmg then several weapons out there. and our normal hits basically dont make a dent to other toons HP. An x-3, eqb, tango dirk, manex for example do Super dmg compared to our fists..Eqb does over double dmg then our crits. Example: forcer hit me for 2500 through my rrfe AND bracer. i crit him for 1k then maybe to 250-350 dmg to him.

Mostly our brawls are a joke quite often...for a special..this is one of the worst ones there is. its barely comparable to fling. often hitting for 300 dmg etc.

A couple things that really would makes us semi feared again like we should be:

1) higher crit dmg (not much..but a bit more)

2) way higher fist dmg

3) make MA brawl have a MIN dmg of 1kish at the higher lvls. this would offset our lower fist dmg compared to other toons weapons.

4) our "root breaker" attack needs a 40 sec refresh and NOT lock our other attacks (specially FOL)

5) dimach at title 6 10 min timer and UNPARRYABLE/EVADABLE

6) if u use an attack it should only lock that skill: bwt..locks parry but u can still use once upon a wave as it locks riposte etc.

7) give us shen back the way it was.

8) higher evade buff that ads like 200 to run speed or something. we are supposed to be masters of evades...thats NOT true.

9) bow buff (nuff said there)

10) we are supposed to be the masters of dmg over time. this is also NOT true at the higher lvls..maybe the lvl 150 and down it is..but not the 150+ where everyone hits as fast or faster then us with more specials and higher base dmg.

11) riposte: does not work..and it should work. it "should" have a chance for returning a ranged attack on the attacker...for x amount of seconds and be locked again for x amount of minutes.

12) some semi accessible MA armor that actually does something for us...so8 armor is "ok" but its not what it could/should be IMHO.

13) heals: hard to discuss this as we can heal while others cannot...and i know they wont change the 8sec recharge but healing for 500-600 (usuall) after u got hit 2x for 2k by a forcer/fixer/agent/nt etc...is near useless.

think thats about it really. this stuff would NOT make us uber..but would make us comparable to the other high dmg dealers like we should be.

im sure ill get flames from NON MA proffessions about this. but all u old school high lvl MAs who know me...know im am a avid pvp and i miss it terribly.

i think pheonix/gravy/ali/azz/cerber/mirazual/marsh/etc etc can maybe back this up or give somemore insights as well.....

[bloodfist99]

I agree with celes, but id also like to add.. we are in dire need of bow buffs as celes said (everyone knows this but hoping repeating this will wake the devs up) A parry buff for mas would be nice also along with a higher brawl buff...

[Nival]

your list looks good, but the UWS might be a little overpowerd
it lasts for 22 secs


well anyway what about self heals?

and yes we got a runbuff but that's the only runbuff we got, should be more of those



you should look at my thread

[celestiness]

toss a link in here pheonix...i hate huntin for threads lol.

[bloodfist99]

We deffinately need a higher heal for are top heal... forgot about that 0.o

[assassimon]

Not much more to add, many very good points that wouldn't overpower us, but would maybe make us viable in PvP.


Good work Cel.

[Nival]

Originally posted by celestiness
toss a link in here pheonix...i hate huntin for threads lol.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...hreadid=112191

[Cyberbob]

Nice list cel, but last night thoose of us who watched the dev chat
got our fears as to bow buffs answered.

There wont be any!! Thoose of ma's that want to do dmg should use fists blackmane said.

I think that more or less answeres it all for me what an ma is about in fc's eyes....

well anyway good list lets hope they look at it and give some feedback.

[jcdv2]

All good suggestions.

I would ask FC to look particularly at evades atm.
The new trend of weapons (non crit weapons) reduce the purpose of evades, by ALOT.

Hope we'll get some feedback here

[________________Alli]

want i want, and these ideas are the only things that will make ma's decent-good.

1. crits 100% - NOT fists only. some of us use bows and they should crit too, not to mention any other ma weapons.

2. ma attacks useable while wielding weapons. not just some of them, all of them. ma attacks should NOT lock a skill, just that attack. BwT locks BwT for 2 min, but you can still use other ma attacks.

3. bows that are actually worth a dam and have good speed, about same as our fists. howling bow of ferocious crap doesn't cut it.

4. a way to get 1.1k+ attack rating with a bow (and not by constantly running a 132 wrangler)

5. if we ever get the bow buff that was promised to us, make it part of another buff like kali or something...or give us some 84 ncu memory. i'm sick of running out of ncu's and i really don't want to clog them up with any more buffs.

6. Upon a wave of crap need better recharge. enforcers can chain rage, until they run out of nano. UWS needs to be more like that.

7. NR needs to be ALOT more effective against roots and snares in particular. they have such a fast recharge that they should be more resistable.

8. dimach is a terrible joke. i'm convinced that whoever worked on the programming for dimach was drunk at the time. dimach never does as much damage as an aimed shot or full auto, and burst often does more too. nice to see that all those specials have really nice recharges, but we're stuck with 30 minutes. why? this is one that i would really like an explanation for, since no matter how hard i try, i can't see the reasoning behind this.

9. and here's one for everybody...GIVE EVERYONE 100% CRITS ! is it just me, or anyone else think reducing crits by 1/2, then dropping weapons like QB, punishment rod, manex, and the rest is more than a little bit contradictory ? do you have to flunk a test to get a job at funcom?

i'm done for now, starting to get mad again.

[Cerber]

I like everything you mentioned.

Riposte is a big MUST to be fixed, hopefully it could be something really helpfull. Maybe Riposte could be our Mirror to nanos? At some level it could reflect back nanos on a castor?


I really liked the So8 armor, would be really great if we could get a similar type new armor or a Divaad suit with similar bonuses.

[Cerber]

Originally posted by Allibobba

8. dimach is a terrible joke. i'm convinced that whoever worked on the programming for dimach was drunk at the time. dimach never does as much damage as an aimed shot or full auto, and burst often does more too. nice to see that all those specials have really nice recharges, but we're stuck with 30 minutes. why? this is one that i would really like an explanation for, since no matter how hard i try, i can't see the reasoning behind this.

I can answer this question for you Alli.

Original Dimach is not what it is now. If memory serves me well, the damage from it was tight in to your nanopool and was depleting it upon usage. Damage wise it was also about 2-3 times more powerfull then what it is now.

Mobs from Beta are a mere shadow of current mobs.
PvP wise, as you well know 100% damage rule plus old style Dimach were insta kill of an ANY class.(heh, unless it was a Soldier)

So a combination of changed Dimach mechanic, changed PvP rules, much tougher mobs and PvP players, made Dimach outdated.

So yeah, I agree with you Alli, Dimach is weak, and needs much working now.

[DaveDread]

Keep it coming guys, I'll sum it up and forward it for sure. A thread like this is worth it's weight in gold info-wise and actually getting through to the devs on this issue.

[Cerber]

Hehe,

I want to use a MA Conceal buff (arent we lil cute ninjas?) with an ability to Sneak attack with my fists.

If it is too hard to add Sneak attack ability to our fists then an item like a pair of gloves which add that attack to your fists could be an anwser?

[FR23890]

Amen!

Great sum up guys, hope we will get fixed soon.
I'm bored of running in leet form with my crapy bow hoping for the AS to recycle soon. Damn it would be nice to be a threat in pvp, at least for some prof.

Violax.

[Nival]

they talked about fixing dimach about a year ago or so, it 'doesnt suprise me that it hasnt been fixed yet.


i dont see why they cant put a 5 min recharge on dimach...

Well anyway that list sums it up, only thing i want to add is Sharp objects is crap, it's not used to anything at all.

might be more stuff in my thread, i just hope anyone from funcom really READS this and gives us a comment or anything.

[Hollowbyte]

mainly Controlled Rage , fear nanos and Horde.

please compare Controlled Rage to Enf Rage or Challenger, or soldier TMS or NT NS2 as in essence it is that kinda function. and compare their usefullness and effects.

our fear nanos are utterly useless except when hunting for loot for twinks that are at least 50 levels lower. these also should work much like the enf shouts, why dont they ? if enf fear works so well then the MA fear shouldnt be that much harder to program.

Horde. look at what it does for the IP investment necessary. then look at the other professions NFs that also have low NCU buffs and what they do for them for similar IP investment. How is Horde justified in comparisons here ?

Cohort is actually ok.

Bow Buff. - I dont know what to say or do here, but go up the person responsible for this one with a big 5lbs hammer, and spell it out for him as follows:

M-A-s N-E-E-D A F-U-*-K-I-N-G B-O-W B-U-F-F Y-O-U M-O-R-O-N-S !!!!!!!!

followed with a blow on the forehead with the hammer after each letter so it sinks in. dont worry, he/she cant be hurt by it cause apparently there is not much inside to hurt at this time, however it might be enough for the lightbulb to finally go off.

[frakk2k]

List looks nice, but I would be happy if I would only get:

Bow buffs. (new bows)
Dimach not parryable
And Crits back.


That would fix me in great ways. I would be able to run into tower battle with a schuyler and really do some damage

[bbar]

Bump for anything that makes us viable in pvm (>220) and anything that would let us enjoy NW.

...and also make the point waiting for SL will already be too late for some.

-bb

[iDerrien]

Originally posted by celestiness
1) higher crit dmg (not much..but a bit more)

ok with me

2) way higher fist dmg

sounds really nice

3) make MA brawl have a MIN dmg of 1kish at the higher lvls. this would offset our lower fist dmg compared to other toons weapons.

yes, that would be a nice improvement

4) our "root breaker" attack needs a 40 sec refresh and NOT lock our other attacks (specially FOL)

UWS only locks Riposte, not MA skill, so you can delete this point.

5) dimach at title 6 10 min timer and UNPARRYABLE/EVADABLE

i disagree. someone who's into maxing his defenses should have a chance to parry dimach. dimach is not evadable anyway. if you make it unblockable you take variaty from MA's and force them to be offensive-only.

6) if u use an attack it should only lock that skill: bwt..locks parry but u can still use once upon a wave as it locks riposte etc.

it is like that already. btw if bwt would lock parry, you coulndt use parry shield anymore. and afaik that kind of improvement is comming with SL.

7) give us shen back the way it was.

wouldnt be really important if they impelement nr6. bbcs + bwt would have better effect.

8) higher evade buff that ads like 200 to run speed or something. we are supposed to be masters of evades...thats NOT true.

you've got a point there. id love to see some better evade buffs. dont flame me pls for that but i think we'll see better evade buffs comming with SL

9) bow buff (nuff said there)

maybe that will happen, maybe not, i dont really care. blackmane said somewhere, that in shadowlands MA's will be more fist-monsters then everything-in-one.

10) we are supposed to be the masters of dmg over time. this is also NOT true at the higher lvls..maybe the lvl 150 and down it is..but not the 150+ where everyone hits as fast or faster then us with more specials and higher base dmg.

but u forget crits. my dot is not that good on the new uber-bosses (because of parry) and my dot isnt that good in pvp because of crit nerf but both things will get fixed in the comming patch, lets check it out and talk about it later.

nr10 is a summary of nr1-3 without any suggestions, so not really nessesary.

11) riposte: does not work..and it should work. it "should" have a chance for returning a ranged attack on the attacker...for x amount of seconds and be locked again for x amount of minutes.

Yes! Melee attacks got 2 checks, evade + parry. Ranged attacks should have 2 checks too, evade + riposte, but again we've been told that riposte will be COMPLETLY reworked in Shadowlands

12) some semi accessible MA armor that actually does something for us...so8 armor is "ok" but its not what it could/should be IMHO.

what about other professions? thats AO , you need to camp uber mobs for nicer armor parts. anyway there should be a lot of craftable items in shadowlands, and its comming pretty soon.

13) heals: hard to discuss this as we can heal while others cannot...and i know they wont change the 8sec recharge but healing for 500-600 (usuall) after u got hit 2x for 2k by a forcer/fixer/agent/nt etc...is near useless.

as you already said it recharge is a bit issue. id like to heal just as good as enforcers mongo-like. maybe Heal + small hot for 5 seconds? would be nice.