Thread: Friday with Means - November 12th, 2010 - Changes large and small

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    Bugger off whiners. VP is not a PvP reward it is a reward obtainable via PvP; you do not hold claim to it and for to long has Funcom sat on their asses and let your incessant crying leave out a fair number of people from being able to enjoy content that they pay for. That it (will) now comes at an extra is less then ideal but acceptable.

    I do not feel sorry for you, nor do I care about what river of tears you can (/have) poured out in this thread about how Funcom should keep VP exclusive to PvPers. Many of you don't even use it, I've heard some even claim they have over a million VP, which seems to me then that the only reason you want VP to remain as is is so that PvMers still come to BS to be your cannon fodder and not because you don't want them having Ofab based on some claim that it's "PvP armour".
    Don't be a fool. With all the stuff available from having the nodrop tag taken off le armor etc you'd never have to go into a bs again if you don't want to. You can just buy it from people who enjoy pvp (likely at a very low cost as well cause of all the surplus vp people got) That's a change people have been asking for for a long time and it's just fine.

    Vp available by using your visa card however is not fine. No to equipment for $$$
    Last edited by Phargus; Nov 12th, 2010 at 23:04:37.


  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    @ general comments opposed to selling of VP: (I've not had the time to read the whole thread)

    Bugger off whiners. VP is not a PvP reward it is a reward obtainable via PvP; you do not hold claim to it and for to long has Funcom sat on their asses and let your incessant crying leave out a fair number of people from being able to enjoy content that they pay for. That it (will) now comes at an extra is less then ideal but acceptable.

    I do not feel sorry for you, nor do I care about what river of tears you can (/have) poured out in this thread about how Funcom should keep VP exclusive to PvPers. Many of you don't even use it, I've heard some even claim they have over a million VP, which seems to me then that the only reason you want VP to remain as is is so that PvMers still come to BS to be your cannon fodder and not because you don't want them having Ofab based on some claim that it's "PvP armour".
    Always fun to read the comments of PvP-haters, specially when they dont even read what is being discussed First of all, VP (Victory Points) was intended to mainly be available via PvP, with other (but slower) methods of gaining them. The game is in many ways built around omni/clan conflict, and PvP has - at least during my short 5-year playing - always been important part of it. Having one set of items available mainly through PvP isn't really that much to cry about. Specially since most of the parts are inferior to Ai armor.

    Secondly, and at least for me the bigger thing: Allowing buying VPs and furthermore yesdrop items will mean buying credits for cash. Noone knows the conversion rate yet, let alone all the effects. But credits for cash should already say enough when at same time FC is so trying to assure they wont sell power for money. And dont forget that ebayers/"pearl farmers" can always undercut FC's conversion rate for VPs, bringing those problems back as well.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    Vp available by using your visa card however is not fine. No to equipment for $$$
    I would agree, if they were selling combined alien armor, They are selling vp pretty much to people who DON'T want to deal with the bs crap that non-PvP'ers don't enjoy.
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    Always fun to read the comments of PvP-haters, specially when they dont even read what is being discussed First of all, VP (Victory Points) was intended to mainly be available via PvP, with other (but slower) methods of gaining them. The game is in many ways built around omni/clan conflict, and PvP has - at least during my short 5-year playing - always been important part of it. Having one set of items available mainly through PvP isn't really that much to cry about. Specially since most of the parts are inferior to Ai armor.

    Secondly, and at least for me the bigger thing: Allowing buying VPs and furthermore yesdrop items will mean buying credits for cash. Noone knows the conversion rate yet, let alone all the effects. But credits for cash should already say enough when at same time FC is so trying to assure they wont sell power for money. And dont forget that ebayers/"pearl farmers" can always undercut FC's conversion rate for VPs, bringing those problems back as well.
    I further enjoy the fact that we're accused of 'whining' for years, or something. The PVP community always has issues but for the most part we get on with it and enjoy ourselves [in our own way ].

    Don't pin your own issues on us, Siyra, and for the love of God go read that post again.

    'VP is not a PVP reward.'

    Remind me of just one thing.

    What does 'VP' stand for?
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  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Stillian View Post

    Remind me of just one thing.

    What does 'VP' stand for?

    VISA Points.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    Don't be a fool.
    I'm not. I just see things differently. And what I see is finally a step forward, on multiple fronts, to accommodate a larger crowd of players rather then just limiting it to a single group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    First of all, VP (Victory Points) was intended to mainly be available via PvP, with other (but slower) methods of gaining them.
    You're correct. But you leave out the parts where Funcom not only boosted PvP VP reward; based on PvPers complaints, but nerfed PvM VP gains making the gap between gathering rate so glaring that it quickly became a fools errand to think that you could ever get enough VP for high QL Ofab from LE missions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillian View Post
    'VP is not a PVP reward.'

    Remind me of just one thing.

    What does 'VP' stand for?
    Victory Points.

    Define Victory. I'll wait while you try to find a way to restrict it to just meaning "victory in PvP"
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  7. #247
    It is a bit absurd. For years it's basically been "no we can't add more VP to PvM as we need to stuff more and more and more and more VP into BSs to get them active." Now it's "well if you don't want to PvP you can whip out your credit card and buy your VP."

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by rhivalentine View Post
    I'm not sure you know what a rage/emo quitwhine is, cos you just nailed it
    Yes I see your point. Then again whatever you say in the same post as you say "I quit" will be a rage/emo something. I didnt even say "I quit" as it is enough to just be a bit negative before youre a whiner
    My point was that I didnt throw my self at the keybord after skimming through FwM, I read it carefully and spend some time thinkin about it before I made my opinion.
    Thank you for the opportunity to try to explain it better

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    I would agree, if they were selling combined alien armor, They are selling vp pretty much to people who DON'T want to deal with the bs crap that non-PvP'ers don't enjoy.
    I really don't see much difference. Selling equipment is selling equipment. And besides just removing the nodrop tag would accomplish exactly the same thing for people who don't like pvp...


  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Much Everyone
    DOOM, DOOM, the game will die, we've said it seven thousand times before but this time we're right! Morality is defeated in the hands of a company that would sell things to it's customers! Woe is the world, I shall log out forever! /wrist
    Bye.

    EDIT: In further news, I still think it's a strong idea to pull new players in. It's actually pretty amusing that people are basically saying the equivalent of "You're making it too easy for people to just buy their way to a level, so now I won't see anyone of that level to team with." Seriously?
    Last edited by LTK; Nov 12th, 2010 at 23:25:05.
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  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Stillian View Post
    I further enjoy the fact that we're accused of 'whining' for years, or something. The PVP community always has issues but for the most part we get on with it and enjoy ourselves [in our own way ].

    Don't pin your own issues on us, Siyra, and for the love of God go read that post again.

    'VP is not a PVP reward.'

    Remind me of just one thing.

    What does 'VP' stand for?
    I'd suggest you go back and read the announcement about VP when LE was launched.

    There is only 1 reason why VP is pretty much only obtainable from BS and that is because nobody went to the BS until they made it the only viable place for VP.
    As the BS was pretty much the only content of LE they had to make it work.

    All that said, I am not in favour of buyable VP and it will be a bad day for AO if that goes live.

    There are games where this kind of thing works, but when I am paying around £45 a month to play, I dont think it is reasonable to pay more.

    I understand that AO probably needs revenue, but frankly FC get as much from me as i'm ever going to pay.

  12. #252
    Posted this on the facebook thingie, think it's still applicable:

    I don't see level boosts being an issue. Many people already get power-levelled, this just cuts out the hours spent sitting at kite hill. We all know that having a high-level toon doesn't instantly make you awesome. It's not making AO easie...r, just faster. Skill will still have to be developed through playing. It will still be glaringly obvious who knows how to play their prof and who doesn't.

    As for "noobs arent gonna have much chance of teaming more experienced players"... those people who wish to level the normal way will, and those who want to powerlevel wouldn't have teamed in the first place anyway. No changes there. And the boost still requires an existing 220 char, so we won't have UTTER noobs at tl7... just the usual garden-variety noob.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Victory Points.......
    Time Limited Access (passes) to expansion content for free players........
    Level packs..........
    While I was excited when I first saw these (for a few minutes at least), it just seems to me that these three would end up causing problems in the long run.
    I dislike PvP and try to avoid it whenever possible and it has been made clear a large percent of the AO community feels the same way. However being able the purchase victory points for real cash just seems like a rush to get money with out any real thought of long term consequences. What reason does a PvM focused player ever have to go to GBS again when they can either buy the points from your store or buy the ofab directly from another players shop? The lack of PvMers is going to drastically reduce the amount the GBS actually runs. Having store purchasable vp is basically granting the right to end game armor with little effort. Then there is the issue of players who buy vp just to buy ofab to throw in their player shop. Do you not think this will effect in game economy for a while?
    The time limited access, while I don't really have much info on how this will work yet. Does this let you temporarily equip expansion items or does it just give you access to zones you could not get into before? However it works out it might be best if it was limited by either how many times total you can buy access to the feature (if it gives a large chunk of time) or how many times a month you can use it.
    The level packs issue, I feel like it will cripple the game. I could be wrong though. We could get a sudden influx of players on both servers who will want to team to level and not just buy there way to 199. Honestly though getting to 220 is easy enough regardless of work schedule its just a matter of time and motivation. All it is really going to take to buy access to this feature is having one 220, not how many years played or anything like that? Will there be a total number of times this can be used or how often at the least?
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  14. #254
    I came here to see what's up with proffession changes, and it didn't quite work the way I wanted.
    I was going to log on, and play a bit, to get my mp to 100 today, but now I don't feel like it...
    The fact that FC is now offering VP and Levels for $$ makes this game completely uninteresting.

    As for PVPers:
    Tell me... How did you first get into PVP? I'd say that many of you were just farming VP, and figured that it's kinda fun to do BS along the way... What if you take this out of the picture, ridding the players of any incentive that joining BS gives? I for one wouldn't have even tried PvP if not for the BS-VP deal!

    Tokens for $$:
    Nothing wrong with that. It would simply kill those, who request sick prices for DCSD bags, and I'm all in for that!

    Levels for $$:
    I wholeheartedly aggree with people before me. Not once, and not twice, have I helped some newb level while doing some pwrlvls myself. They learned from me, I gave them some ideas, and some of them turned out pretty great. I wonder if it would be the same if they just had to rely on other noobs playing...

    Summing this up... I guess this is emoquit... Truth is that by making levels and vps buyable for $$ you simply killed the game. That's all I have to say
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  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    Victory Points.

    Define Victory. I'll wait while you try to find a way to restrict it to just meaning "victory in PvP"
    I'm not restricting it to a thing, but thank you for the stereotype. I've always figured VP is higher in Battlestation because winning in PVP is rather more difficult than in PVM. Once you've done it once in PVM, you know how to do it. No regular PVP'r will ever have the same strengths or weaknesses as the one you fought last.

    BS is more of a victory, and I've always felt that's why there's more VP in it. That, therefore, is why I dislike people who will be getting a shortcut to the VP I worked damned hard for.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawtyss View Post
    As for PVPers:
    Tell me... How did you first get into PVP? I'd say that many of you were just farming VP, and figured that it's kinda fun to do BS along the way... What if you take this out of the picture, ridding the players of any incentive that joining BS gives? I for one wouldn't have even tried PvP if not for the BS-VP deal!
    I can't answer for everyone, but I was PVP'ing [albeit badly ] before Battlestations were a gleam in Funcom's eye. As to the success of Battlestations, I rather suspect they'd come along round about now, if there was no such thing as VP. Gather round the fire and let me tell you a story.

    Several years ago I took 5 friends from my org, all of us noobs to the max, about level 150, to Ent Arena, and we started mucking about. More of my org came. Then more. Other orgs came. Clan PVP Gods like Stromm and Tiamin eventually turned up and joined in. We held a mock competition for hours and hours, just having one on one battles, then three on three battles, until eventually we'd all killed each other 10 times over. There were, I'd estimate with people coming and going, about 100 people over the course of the whole night. It was serious fun and seriously cool.

    It categorically wouldn't happen anymore. Battlestation or something like it would eventually come around, regardless of VP. As the population decreases, as we must accept it is, the chances of random, sporadic PVP [like WA PVP] become smaller until they completely fade. An organised, accessible area for PVP is the only answer to combat that. The only reason, I feel, Will to Fight failed [mostly] is that it's rather further than anyone wants to travel on a regular basis. If WTF had been right outside Borealis gates, for example, I think it's possible BS would never have come about in the first place.
    Last edited by Stillian; Nov 12th, 2010 at 23:37:35.
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by sawtyss View Post

    As for PVPers:
    Tell me... How did you first get into PVP? I'd say that many of you were just farming VP, and figured that it's kinda fun to do BS along the way... What if you take this out of the picture, ridding the players of any incentive that joining BS gives? I for one wouldn't have even tried PvP if not for the BS-VP deal!

    You do understand we had PvP prior to LE-launch ye?
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
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    When specifically asked for positive words, responding with a personal attack is incredibly rude and inappropriate. Please do not repeat such behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by nums214 View Post
    If my wife never got preggo omni wouldn't have lost their fields. 2009 is pretty much when I quit.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Freor View Post
    Secondly, and at least for me the bigger thing: Allowing buying VPs and furthermore yesdrop items will mean buying credits for cash. Noone knows the conversion rate yet, let alone all the effects. But credits for cash should already say enough when at same time FC is so trying to assure they wont sell power for money. And dont forget that ebayers/"pearl farmers" can always undercut FC's conversion rate for VPs, bringing those problems back as well.
    What farmers? between the crackdown from Means (and he hunted them down viciously) and the ability to ignore people very fast now, they have practically disappeared. Check sites that sell virtual currency, almost all removed AO from their listings.

    About cash, AO can't just break even, it needs to be profitable for FC to keep running the game. Means is making sure it remains that way with the items store.

    Social clothes, let's see... basic armor sells for 1-2m a piece, if you were to take that in mind and consider you get dozens of clothes with PP.... omg they are selling stuff for CASH!

    Billboards, they are advertising which froobs HAVE to see, no choice, OMG THEY ARE MAKING MONEY!!

    Things have changed, the AO from 2001 had little competition on the field, now every year there are new emerging MMO's, TONS of competition for gamers, paid and F2P.

    We need to be realistic here, to remain competitive and profitable changes need to be made, we either adapt or die. I rather adapt and enjoy the game.

    I won't be buying vp or a 199, I can powerlevel a new toon if I had to and dailies cover vp/tokens/leveling quite nicely even for a casual gamer.

    However if someone didn't have the time, I would tell them to check the items store.
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  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    EDIT: In further news, I still think it's a strong idea to pull new players in. It's actually pretty amusing that people are basically saying the equivalent of "You're making it too easy for people to just buy their way to a level, so now I won't see anyone of that level to team with." Seriously?
    Seriously. On RK2 you already hardly see people in subway, totw, etc. This is going to decrease it even further.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Seriously. On RK2 you already hardly see people in subway, totw, etc. This is going to decrease it even further.
    We don't have that problem in Atlantean, feel free to roll a new toon and check us out.
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  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    You do understand we had PvP prior to LE-launch ye?
    He does have a point.
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