Change Inferno mission rewards pls!

[CorbynDallas]

Ok so I stand at Ergo in Inferno on my level 210 trader...the 4th toon that I will have to reach 220 hopefully
As i wait here on lft...1 hour goes by...then 2..then i go make lunch..come back...listen to some music..another hour goes by...I look at my clock and notice I have to go to work in 45 min..i think.."o well guess Ill get some levels tomorrow

Then I notice something..hey theres like 20 ppl all standing here at Ergo(trial) also...another 10 in the garden and prolly another 8 on lft that are doing something in RK waiting for the same thing that i am....an Inferno team.

And why are all these ppl waiting...simple..because all the 220's are either doing a Pande raid or Xan...they alr made 220..they dont need xp atm..not till they want to do some research ofc..

And why...its becuase the reward for a 220 roller is higher...so naturally everyone wants a 220 roller...so..here we all sit doing nothing...thinking "hmm am i actually paying money to sit here all day?"well...I have 3 paid accounts and so does my wife and son..who got bored and quit btw..hes playing some other game now..

My point is...we are paying to enjoy this game...which means...leveling our toons..not sitting around for 6 hours waiting for a 220 roller who may or may not log in..
Imo the solution is simple..make the reward the same for 200-220...or 210-220 even...just remove the dependency we all seem to have on a 220 toon that alr has his levels..and i guarantee FC will make tons of paying customers VERY happy with this simple fix

Please post your thoughts on this guys..thx

[Wrangeline]

Having inferno mission rewards be the same for pullers between level 210-220 (or such) is a very good idea. Very big bump for that.

[tiralee]

Originally Posted by CorbynDallas My point is...we are paying to enjoy this game...which means...leveling our toons..not sitting around for 6 hours waiting for a 220 roller who may or may not log in.. Imo the solution is simple..make the reward the same for 200-220...or 210-220 even...just remove the dependency we all seem to have on a 220 toon that alr has his levels..and i guarantee FC will make tons of paying customers VERY happy with this simple fix Please post your thoughts on this guys..thx

My thought is that doing a few missions rolled by someone under 220 in that six hours is still a lot more SK than doing nothing for six hours. I can understand the hope that a level 220 will log in during that six hours, and that people don't want to waste their time doing a lower mission just in case a level 220 does log in. But if it typically ends up a six hour wait, going with the lower level roller seems to make more sense.

EDIT: This is not saying that I disagree with having mission rewards be the same for maybe level 215-220 rollers. That would be okay. I just think going with a lower roller works out better than doing nothing for six hours while waiting for a level 220 roller.
_

[Aethyrguard]

Originally Posted by Wrangeline Having inferno mission rewards be the same for pullers between level 210-220 (or such) is a very good idea. Very big bump for that.

This ^^

[Molotoff]

If people want to sit /lft/afk while waiting for the best sk/hour, their choice.

Accept sub 220 rollers, and even if it will require a few extra missions to reach 220/70, you'll be there much faster.

While gathering a team, if you /tell people on lft and say 215 inf, they might indeed not join, since they want the bestestestestest sk/hour only. However if you ninja a full team, and say that there is no 220 roller, but since you have a full team, you can do a lower (say 215+), still fast SK, and certainly better than none, you would be surprised how many would actually stay in team. Usually enough to actually do the mission.

That said, even if i consider the problem lies mainly in lazy people mind (only the very best xp/sk, or nothing), if the difficulty of level 210 missions was raised to that of level 220, then ok, raise the reward too. But just raising the reward without raising the difficulty ? No, thanks.

I certainly don't want the opposite.. the team of 5 220 in need of research not doing anything, but being LFT 210 roller, since it's easier for same reward, and they are too lazy to do anything else.

[Hokutonoken]

with all that time..just imagine..that time passed..if everyone just not wait for a lv220 for a mission..but low and behold...pull lv210 or even lower mission...perhaps that might be something?...nah....better just wait 5hrs to get a team for a lv220 easy inferon ^_=

[Wrangeline]

Originally Posted by Molotoff That said, even if i consider the problem lies mainly in lazy people mind (only the very best xp/sk, or nothing), if the difficulty of level 210 missions was raised to that of level 220, then ok, raise the reward too. But just raising the reward without raising the difficulty ? No, thanks. I certainly don't want the opposite.. the team of 5 220 in need of research not doing anything, but being LFT 210 roller, since it's easier for same reward, and they are too lazy to do anything else.

Yes, I do agree that if, let's say, 210-219 got same reward in missions as a 220, then the difficulty should be the same for them all.

This could be done by providing missions based on level-brackets instead of individual levels, like this:

180-190 puller = level "X" mobs and "Y" SK of reward.
191-200 puller = level "X"+10 mobs and "Y"+10% SK reward.
201-210 puller = level "X"+20 mobs and "Y"+20% SK reward.
211-220 puller = level "X"+30 mobs and "Y"+30% SK reward.

[MajorOutage]

Here's another idea. Stop being picky buggers and pull whatever you can manage and be happy with it.


Personally, I think the best way forward is backwards. Make current Hard the easiest mission you can pull in Inferno. Adjust pen rewards upward (and difficulty slightly downward perhaps, maybe so a 210 hard becomes equal sk/time with a current 220 easy), and let 211-220s pull there even the difficulty/reward still caps at 210.


Other things to consider (in addition to above, not as a fix on their own):

Make acquiring a molar more difficult.
Ergo lets 201+ skip molar quest.

[Wrangeline]

Originally Posted by Majoroutage_ Here's another idea. Stop being picky buggers and pull whatever you can manage and be happy with it.

If only it was that easy
It's a bit like saying "why can't people just get along" when discussing RL wars.

I mean, it really is that simple, but not so easy

Human nature ftl.

I don't mind doing level 218 SL missions for example but if most people that join team wants to leave because we don't have a 220 puller, then we all suffer. It's silly to leave a team because of that but people really do.. so the problem is real even though its silly

[Mekh]

Originally Posted by Hokutonoken with all that time..just imagine..that time passed..if everyone just not wait for a lv220 for a mission..but low and behold...pull lv210 or even lower mission...perhaps that might be something?...nah....better just wait 5hrs to get a team for a lv220 easy inferon ^_=

This...

Always amused me with those saying "Nah, I'll wait for a 220 puller".

Then 3-5 missions later you see them still sitting there on lft, and usually complaining about inability to get decent teams and inability to level...


That said...
It makes no sense to me that having a 220 pull a mission in itself should give a higher reward, without it having any influence on the mobs difficulty in the mission.

Scale the reward AND the difficulty of mobs.

Maybe have it scale along the same lines as AI raids are scaled based on team numbers as well as level(s)?

Should be possible to set up some rules for mob levels and numbers, maybe even mob types/tricks based on how many is in the team and what (average?) level they are.

Having certain professions in the team might even bring a percentage chance of spawning particular mob types with particular attacks.

- Soldier in team: 5% chance of reflect piercing attacks
-> Counter: Healing in team
- Crat/Trader in team: 5% chance of uncalmable mobs
-> Counter: Good tank / Root /mezz (same as calm?)
- Doc in team: 5% chance of mobs with nano drains
-> Counter: NT/MP for nano regain
- Shade/Fixer/Keeper in team: 5% chance of mobs with very high AR

So on and so forth... Just random ideas and numbers, but should give an idea of the concept.
Might actually also have the side effect that some currently less desired professions, might get more wanted, since making pure DD teams might result in the team being less efficient at actually making the mission?


Does this deserve a separate suggestion post?

[Ayria]

Originally Posted by Wrangeline Human nature ftl.

Human nature is a self perpetuating aspect.

People accept that human nature can't be changed so they don't try, and thus they make their statement come true by not changing.

Anyway, that's all besides the point. People can and do accept < 220 missions, that you or others choose not to is your choice and you deal with the repercussions. There is no rule saying that you can only reach 220 if another 220 is in team killing things with you.

These are player expectations, player habits, player desires and settings. They can be changed and should be changed before the game is altered to support them.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Originally Posted by tiralee My thought is that doing a few missions rolled by someone under 220 in that six hours is still a lot more SK than doing nothing for six hours. I can understand the hope that a level 220 will log in during that six hours, and that people don't want to waste their time doing a lower mission just in case a level 220 does log in. But if it typically ends up a six hour wait, going with the lower level roller seems to make more sense. EDIT: This is not saying that I disagree with having mission rewards be the same for maybe level 215-220 rollers. That would be okay. I just think going with a lower roller works out better than doing nothing for six hours while waiting for a level 220 roller. _

THIS.

Quit slacking! All the lamers stand around doing nothing for 5 hours are retarded! it's like, you're 210, so roll a mish, do it, get a ding, roll another.

If you want to level, just level! noone is forcing you to NEED a 220 to hold your hand.

This is as bad as the OSTing thing.

[BugsCoT]

Try hitting 220 on test server

Anything is faster than that.

[AGPEcko]

Originally Posted by Ayria These are player expectations, player habits, player desires and settings. They can be changed and should be changed before the game is altered to support them.

This. ^^

...entire forum section is retarded.
And who thought of level 210 missions giving the same reward as a 220? That's a huge none-sense, that just doesn't scale. >.<

[Omutb]

Just change it to a fixed SK mission reward, and as Im fairly certain the mission code doesnt work that simply, the reward would need to be a consumable item.

After all, thats how those Arid Rift missions work.

Easy mission, gives everyone a 25k SK item.
Medium mission gives everyone a 50k SK item.
Hard mission gives everyone a 75k SK item.

[Wrangeline]

Originally Posted by Ayria Human nature is a self perpetuating aspect. People accept that human nature can't be changed so they don't try, and thus they make their statement come true by not changing. Anyway, that's all besides the point. People can and do accept < 220 missions, that you or others choose not to is your choice and you deal with the repercussions. There is no rule saying that you can only reach 220 if another 220 is in team killing things with you.

There's no need to attempt to expand on my statements for my benefit. I choose and have chosen my words carefully

I have already said that I have no problems doing sub-220 missions. I didn't support this suggestions because I can't handle sub-220 rewards, I support it because it's a good suggestion that offers solutions to some issues without having any drawbacks. At least not when you add in some conditions like those I posted in my second reply in this thread.

This is yet another classic example of an issue that doesn't actually have to be there at all, so making tiny changes to this area of the game would make things better without any drawbacks. The only thing standing in its way are players who think it's better to point out various arbitrary ways to circumvent the issue rather than asking themselves why the issue has to exist in the first place and why it wouldn't be better to simply fix the issue.

[Ayria]

Originally Posted by Wrangeline This is yet another classic example of an issue that doesn't actually have to be there at all

That's because there is no issue in the game. The issue is the mentality of its players. The reward for a 210 missions is set, the reward for a 220 mission is set. I wouldn't say no to more XP but I don't see why it has to be changed simply because people refuse to do anything unless there's a 220 around.

[Jenshey]

Originally Posted by Ayria That's because there is no issue in the game. The issue is the mentality of its players. The reward for a 210 missions is set, the reward for a 220 mission is set. I wouldn't say no to more XP but I don't see why it has to be changed simply because people refuse to do anything unless there's a 220 around.

Agreed and my favorite is them all standing around complaining in game or on here when they could be doing two or three of those 210 missions.

[Wrangeline]

Originally Posted by Ayria That's because there is no issue in the game. The issue is the mentality of its players. The reward for a 210 missions is set, the reward for a 220 mission is set. I wouldn't say no to more XP but I don't see why it has to be changed simply because people refuse to do anything unless there's a 220 around.

On this particular issue I do of course agree with you that the actual problem lies in the mind of the players. The questions is, is it an issue worth addressing? I mean, just because the issue stems from the players attitudes, doesn't mean that it's not an issue worth addressing.

For example, if BS hardly ever was active because one side lost too often, then that would be a "player made" issue and not a gameplay issue. Still, if BS was hardly ever active, then perhaps it would be a good idea to change things a bit so that it becomes active again. Because, not changing something because its a player-made problem and thus letting BS become a memory of the past instead of the action filled PvP instance that it was supposed to be, is not actually the BEST thing to do.

If there is anything you can do to make the game better then it doesn't matter why the issue is there, it only matters what you can do about it and what the consequences of those actions are.

In the case of Shadowland missions, the issue is definitely "player-made" but if there is something that can be done to fix that issue without any negative consequences, then it would be worth it and it would be the right thing to do.

So, is it worth it?

Well, personally I think it is. I don't see any negative aspects to making missions the same difficulty and same reward no matter who the puller is between 210 and 220. I only see two effects from that and those are a much easier time to get teams going and more people would team with people their own level instead of having to rely on at least 1 220 in team.

So from my point of view, there are 2 positive aspects to changing the system a tiny bit and zero negative effects (that I can see).

Based on that, I think it's a good idea.

Having an attitude of "haha, those people are so silly, let them sit on LFT and rot" is perhaps theoretically ok as they chose to sit and rot on LFT instead of joining a good team for good XP even though the puller isn't 220. However it's not a helpful or constructive attitude and if that attitude stands in the way of suggestions that might have some merit, then it's just counter productive.

[Jenshey]

Yeah, I agree, we must fix this XP problem, 220s don't need XP, except research. So nerf the XP down to level 210 so that they will want rollers 210+ for the most possible XP.