Stat Scaling

[tharss]

I was in TL 5 BS, and I would like to better understand stat scaling in-game. If everyone is meant to get 1600+ AR (TL5) and 3100+ (TL7)...then it would seem like this game would go in an odd direction.

As a SL character without billions of credits, or sense of how to twink I went into TL 5 BS with 1k AR, roughly 5k HP, and 1.1k Evades. I figure my gear is about "average" for the leveler...

How do stats make the BS/tower/duel twinks THAT much better? My more important question is this, is this scaling right? You could take 10 MAs like me and put them up against ONE of these BS twinks and they would slaughter the 10 MAs over. I can put limber/DoF (1k evades + 1k evades + 350 roughly AAD)... and still get hit sometimes.

I don't know what to do honestly...as I don't want to twink like crazy to just keep competitive. How do I put my 1k AR up against 1.6-2k AR? Put my 1k evades up to 1.3k+, and my AAD of 350 to 500+? I don't want to be a twink, but I can't even enjoy my experience because I am OUTGEARED, no skill factored in.

[Artyomis]

You can't race at high speed and compete with Formula 1 racers on your pretty damn comfortable and luxury Rolls Royce, even if Rolls Royce got spoiler installed over there.

TL5 was always like this, and will never change, and all battlestations will provide far more superior players than just regular ones, simply because twinking is the way to win, not only to enjoy your goal and achieved success.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

arty is right.

If you want to play in BS, be prepared to get rolled. you'll still get points, but you just won't be able to compete at that level, which is why the twinks twink.

the stat scaling is kinda funny. but you can learn how to use your skills and inante defences to your advantage. like, cycling DOF/limber, also, havignthe right perk setup helps. Go all the way into CiB to maximize your AAD.

Also, make sure you've got evade/ AAD implants/ symbs in every slot. That will at LEAST give you some chance to run around and cap some points.

[eroz_c]

You can try to minimize your strengths and maximise your opponent's weaknesses. Try things like engage people only when DoF is up, find enemies who are vulnerable and engage only when you have Moonmist available (even then pick your opponents, you should learn rather soon who you can hit/perk and which ones are out of your league). Maybe get an aim shot bow for now, learn to swap it in and out.

The trick is to try and learn what you can do, avoid people who flat out steamroll you and prey on your natural enemies and wanna be twinks. Other than that the only way you can go about is improve on your equipment and research / alien levels. I'm not sure if you meant to say you only have SL, if you do, you're at a huge natural disadvantage and there's not much you can do about it. It's similar to you going up against froobs of your own level.

[Mr_Stabby]

if you want every1 to stand on an equal ground character wise go play an fps

[tharss]

Originally Posted by Artyomis TL5 was always like this, and will never change, and all battlestations will provide far more superior players than just regular ones, simply because twinking is the way to win, not only to enjoy your goal and achieved success.

I know before LE came out that a true twink would really put to shame any non-twink, I got that. But back then, I remember that I AT LEAST had a chance. Even these enforcers who were sick geared still has flaws in their armor, and it was fun to know I at least could scare the guy ever time I entered PVP.

I entered the BS and this certain twink ADV passed up attacking me twice to chase someone better and just let me attack him (both times for up to 30 seconds) without even attacking. He knew I was that squishy.

Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich arty is right. If you want to play in BS, be prepared to get rolled... ...like, cycling DOF/limber, also, havignthe right perk setup helps. Go all the way into CiB to maximize your AAD. Also, make sure you've got evade/ AAD implants/ symbs in every slot. That will at LEAST give you some chance to run around and cap some points.

THIS tackles my exact problems in the opposite way you meant to Knuckle. I didn't prepare to get rolled, I had to DOF/Limber every time I went up to someone and still got rolled, my CiB is pretty close to max, and I have AAD/Evade symbiants in every important spot.

I had no chance of capping points. And it was frustrating.

Originally Posted by eroz_c YTry things like engage people only when DoF is up, find enemies who are vulnerable and engage only when you have Moonmist available (even then pick your opponents, you should learn rather soon who you can hit/perk and which ones are out of your league). Maybe get an aim shot bow for now, learn to swap it in and out. The trick is to try and learn what you can do, avoid people who flat out steamroll you and prey on your natural enemies and wanna be twinks. Other than that the only way you can go about is improve on your equipment and research / alien levels. I'm not sure if you meant to say you only have SL, if you do, you're at a huge natural disadvantage and there's not much you can do about it. It's similar to you going up against froobs of your own level.

I got LE research, I've already mentioned I had both DoF and Limber up and go rolled. I used moonmist on some guys just to get 1-2 hits in. I never thought to use AS, but if you read my first post I am leveling character. I don't want to cap a 40% AS just to be worth spending my time in their. Even after the AS nerf, I would find myself with nothing to hit.

I can't even hit crats, enforcers (unless moonmist up), agent (not even with moonmist up)...only imagine the evade profession twinks.

Originally Posted by Mr_Stabby if you want every1 to stand on an equal ground character wise go play an fps

Stabby, the troll is strong within.

I MADE THIS post to understand stat scaling...yet NO ONE has addressed the issue. Why is TL5 stat scaling so crazy. I mean look at ALIEN armor...to me it shouldn't scale so high at TL5. Just like a lot of items should be scaled lower so that you don't need 1600+ AR, 2k+ Evades + AAD, and a billions of credits...

My first thinking was this, if you fought a tl 3 (60) twink, you can at least stand a chance. Just like with a tl 4 (you will lose, but you can feel like you tried)...but then you go to tl 5 and it's like day and night. You get slaughtered by everyone, hit no one, and the stats are just stupid.

I want to understand why an average tl 5 has to work so damn hard to keep even PARTIALLY competitive with the REAL twinks. I don't want to be a professional racer or professional this...but you aren't answering the questions. Why am I suppose to put in that much gear work to even hit someone, avoid a hit, and be decently competitive? This is not fair to the average eye, and excuses for it doesn't make it better.

Stat scaling is out of control for twinking in tl 5/6. I would just like to see better work done for the average player. Stat scaling isn't where it SHOULD be.

[navycut]

It's not about stat scaling at only tl5. tl7 works like that too. (I think all title ranges probably work like that too but I never pvp below tl5)

Life is tough for a gimp evade prof at both tl5 and tl7, your puny evades being most of your defense is NOT going to help you. If you were a soldier or something you could at least throw up tms but evade profs probably suffer the most in BS when you aren't well equipped.

[rustinel]

Yes, alien armour is OP, there are few who would dispute that. And what Navycut said is true also, in all the active ranges you will see exactly the same thing. You see the same in pvm cept some player pwning a mob faster than you is less frustrating than them killing you.

Its not just about expensive gear however. The twinks you are talking about are specifically designed for that arena. Every single thing/ip about them is focussed on winning tl5. They have done it for a long time. You honestly can't hope to compete against them as a levelling char.
Experience comes into it too, you could stick the best gear on someone new to tl5(or any range) bs and they would still get pwned every which way from thursday.

You sound like you want to improve, like you want to understand the differences. I would recommend you stick around a while. Try a few different set ups. Talk to others the same prof as you and find out what works for them. Never give up!
Yes, you will get pwned a lot by the twinks who know their projects inside out and backwards but you WILL get better...better at tl5 bs and better at playing your char. Certainly you will become much faster.

Don't spend billions, get a decent amount of VP to get some ofab, maybe an odd peice of alien armour from random raids/sect10, an odd peice of lya's/miy's, a few lil useful trinkets and you will be happier up there. The twinks will still beat you 99.999% of the time but thats what they are for, don't worry about them beating you, you are a levelling char. Their chars will be there forever, its their final destination. You will take what you learn and improve and continue onwards.

Its not just twinks in BS, just feels like it sometimes

[tharss]

Originally Posted by navycut It's not about stat scaling at only tl5. tl7 works like that too. (I think all title ranges probably work like that too but I never pvp below tl5) Life is tough for a gimp evade prof at both tl5 and tl7, your puny evades being most of your defense is NOT going to help you. If you were a soldier or something you could at least throw up tms but evade profs probably suffer the most in BS when you aren't well equipped.

Then there is a strong place to start. I think evade professions need something to put them up to par. Ever person I talked to said, "tough luck" or "pay 1b" and you'll be set. Thanks! So I either farm until my eyes turn red for several months or I just give up on trying to make an MA viable? That isn't the solution I was looking for.

I am glad though you pointed that out, and if more of us point it out...then maybe we can try to find a way to adjust it to where evade professions have some sort of way to combat this nerfed game play.

Originally Posted by Rustinel Yes, alien armour is OP, there are few who would dispute that.

I get you have to pay a lot to get it...but if AI armor is head and foot above the other armor, then there is an issue. I think that it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

...you could stick the best gear on someone new to tl5(or any range) bs and they would still get pwned every which way from thursday.

Is that honestly how the game should be? Twink or just give up? Something has to be done to balance the game play, not just blame people for having crap gear. TL5 is probably the most lopsided BS and levels, period. Look at the #'s.

You can get about +20 AI armor, you can get 2k AR...while I get about 1k AR? I saw an agent with more static D then me with my base + limber up. And last time I checked...they aren't an evade profession. At TL7 I get at 210 you'll be gimped in the BS. But, you still aren't at 1/2-2/3 the strength of everyone else. You 'should' be at 2.2k AR easily...and can at least hit people and make a difference. That means a lot.

To the point, stat scaling at TL5 is the worst in-game. You can be like me and just get rocked hard, or you can spend months to even keep competitive. I doubt that is the same at tl 3 or tl 7 BS.

Originally Posted by Rustinel You sound like you want to improve, like you want to understand the differences. I would recommend you stick around a while. Try a few different set ups. Talk to others the same prof as you and find out what works for them. Never give up! Yes, you will get pwned a lot by the twinks who know their projects inside out and backwards but you WILL get better...better at tl5 bs and better at playing your char. Certainly you will become much faster.

This part meant a lot. You can see that I want to improve, want to understand, want to get better. I will talk to some of the MAs and see what I can do. I will try different tactics and keep mixing it up. I din't want to ever give up, as I do with things that annoy me. Thanks a lot Rustinel.

I want to be one of the best MAs, ever. And I know that isn't my goal, my goal is to be the best player I can be. And through this, I want to know more and more each day!

Originally Posted by Rustinel ...The twinks will still beat you 99.999% of the time but thats what they are for, don't worry about them beating you, you are a levelling char. Their chars will be there forever, its their final destination. You will take what you learn and improve and continue onwards.

I want to find that 0.001%. I want to find a way to improve, and find ways to beat them. I don't want to feel like I need to get a VISA credit card and max it out with gear. I want real skill, and not just gear grinding.

Originally Posted by Rustinel Its not just twinks in BS, just feels like it sometimes

Yeah, all the omni's I ran into rocked me. Not one of them was a fight worth mentioning. 5 minute roots from crats, adv's who can't be touched, agents who faceroll me, and pet classes who just laugh at my evades/subpar heals.

[Memphisraves]

I also want to mention that MA's are arguably the hardest prof to twink for BS at any level, you have small heals and the more HP you have, the more it hurts. The trick to MA is having high defense, but lower HP, that way the special caps don't hurt you as much and you can out heal the incoming specials better. The collar from CoH is a favorite among MA's in BS, look into it. And TL5 is the elitist BS, you'll see characters there who have spent close to a year sometimes 2 to get their characters right where they want them. Don't feel bad for getting pounded by them, they have been there forever, you can't expect much else. Oh and run from Enf's, they are your nemesis as a MA at that level.

[Mr_Stabby]

Originally Posted by tharss Stabby, the troll is strong within.

i was rather serious and given that u didnt provide any counter arguments my point still stands

[McKnuckleSamwich]

AI armour isn't a head and foot above everything else.

QL 225 commando=23 MA skill/brawl+11 AAO +11 AAD+ 7 dmg
QL 225 strong armour= 23 MA skill/brawl +11 AAD +7 dmg
Dchest = 29 MA skill +42 dmg +300 hp
slippers of screaming=60 evade cls, dodge range, duck
notucomm TC= 80 dodge range
MNTC= 64 EC/DR/DE
boots of the dancing king= about 40-50 evade close
boots of the stone samurai= 40 evade close
lya sangi slippers = 20 evade close
ofab pants= 60 MA skill some duck exp
predator sleeves=15 EC/DR/DE, inits, BD,NP
pred circlet=1 crit, same as above
brothers brass knuckles=10 MA skill, 10 dmg
sureshot glasses= 50-75 evade close/dodge range/bowskill/bow spec attack
smelly butcher gloves=14 MA skill, brawl, etc.
plastic circuit board= 30ish brawl
spirit focus sleeves= 7 MA skill, 4 dmg
mystical force shirt= 30-40 EC/DR/DE
aura magnifier= 20 MA skill 20 dmg


There are many items which give great stats. You don't need to have CC to be competitive. You need CC to be competitive with the best of the best.

What you might want to do is use the search function in auno, to find stuff that adds the modifiers you want in the location you want. Then, figure out how to get it.

When I leveled my MA, as my first toon, I spent a lot of time looking at how I could improve. I didn't PVP, I just worked on my toon. Every time I was on a raid, I'd say: ok what do I need? Whats the thing that needs replacing more than anythign else? Then I'd work on that. Sometimes you don't have money for it, so you figure out how to get it, and go do that.

[tharss]

Originally Posted by Mr_Stabby i was rather serious and given that u didnt provide any counter arguments my point still stands

I don't argue with idiots, politicians, old people and extremist. If I had to counter every point I think I would lose from the start. Troll is troll, it serves no purpose...

[Saetos]

Originally Posted by tharss I don't argue with idiots, politicians, old people and extremist. If I had to counter every point I think I would lose from the start. Troll is troll, it serves no purpose...

I'm sorry bud, but he's right. Gear plays a MAJOR part in TL5 and higher PVP - if your equip is subpar, expect your head to be bashed in over and over again. I'm sick of the same FA/AS advies, CS agents, and instacripple Traders as everyone else is. I do have a TL2 MA I can go back to though when TL5 BS becomes too much to stomach; and neither Granitefield nor Areyoubored have a single piece of AI armor on them.

[Mr_Stabby]

Originally Posted by tharss I don't argue with idiots, politicians, old people and extremist. If I had to counter every point I think I would lose from the start. Troll is troll, it serves no purpose...

Trying to discredit ur opposition is very noob of u given the lacking of credibility of ur own. i think u need to reevaluate ur audience and figure out who ur really trying to convince coz afterall last i checked this is a forum.

[Gridpain]

well, indeed, AO is not a FPS where only the skills of the player counts.

you have to actualy build your toon and equipe it a tad correctly to try to compete with those who twinked a lot.

I was somewhat surprise to see you saying "with 1k AR, roughly 5k HP, and 1.1k Evades"

that's less than I have on my froob non-GA TL5 fixer when I was doing TL5 BS.

what do you expect to kill with this setup ?

I m not saying you should put AI armor, not everybody have this kind of creds (I certainly dont)... but come on ... no implant / symb over qL 140 ?? QL 150 miy melee ? the 120 tocken board ?

would you find normal, and just, that people with refine imps and top symb, 1k board, decent armor would loose vs you ?

btw, how do you kill green mobs ?

[Organa]

Unfortunately your problems are not related to stat scaling, but rather to the (admittedly significant) difference between a TL5 twink and a TL5 straight off the street.

TL5 is an interesting range to twink because with the right tools and effort it's possible to equip some of the best items in game. Is that a problem?

No.

It's a reward for someone who is prepared to invest a huge amount of time, effort and creds into their toon to make them as good as they possibly can be.

As others have pointed out it's also not as straight forward as "ZOMG AI armour rulez all!". There are certain armour pieces that people select over AI armour for particular reasons - check the link to my NT's setup in my sig for an example.

1K AR is, unfortunately, pitifully low and all you will be able to hit are 150s who are only there to farm VP for armour, but MAs can be made to be very good at TL5 BS. Granted, not the best, but certainly very good.

You can have huge +crit chance, good AR, very good passive defences, and you can achieve all of this without the need to spend billions on equipment, but don't expect to run into the BS with QL150 armour, symbs and weapons and do anything significant.

Org

[Livesangry]

Maybe every non-twink grown lazy?..... don't expect to compete with an twink which putted bilions of creds in an toon and many hours of time. he diden't did that for nothing did he?

[Sorhan]

Siegetank - while your point about AI armor is valid, it certainly isn't the only thing keeping you from being competitive with the BS twinks.

It looks like you have just dinged 150, which is one of the issues. AI armor and such or not, at 150 you will be at a disadvantage compared to the ~170ish folks who are in there, just from them raising their skills with IP and having access to more perks.

I am not sure what you consider "average" equip, but having a 150 MA myself (without any AI armor, mind you), the numbers that you quoted seem quite low. Do you have updated symbiants? Are you caught up on your research, nanos, tokens? Do you have items such as Free Movements/MoTR/UWoS, and root grafts to root opponents when needed? Do you have armor adding to AR or defenses? Lion's leather, predator, tier pants, sandy goo, ebony figurine, lamnidae gloves, sureshot glasses, sangi slippers, etc... there are many decent items to get that will improve your character significantly but only cost a few mil each, rather than hundreds of millions each as with AI armor.

As others have mentioned, adjust your expectations and pick your battles. You are not going to be able to just stand there and take on a 174 agent twink, so find someone else to fight. Not everyone on BS is a crazy PVP twink, not by a long shot. Last week I ran into a soldier on TL5 BS using TMS6... go fight those people instead.

Lastly, go with a friend and team up. You will stand a much better chance than going it solo, and it will be more fun too.

[tharss]

Originally Posted by Sorhan Siegetank - while your point about AI armor is valid, it certainly isn't the only thing keeping you from being competitive with the BS twinks. It looks like you have just dinged 150, which is one of the issues. AI armor and such or not, at 150 you will be at a disadvantage compared to the ~170ish folks who are in there, just from them raising their skills with IP and having access to more perks. I am not sure what you consider "average" equip, but having a 150 MA myself (without any AI armor, mind you), the numbers that you quoted seem quite low. Do you have updated symbiants? Are you caught up on your research, nanos, tokens? Do you have items such as Free Movements/MoTR/UWoS, and root grafts to root opponents when needed? Do you have armor adding to AR or defenses? Lion's leather, predator, tier pants, sandy goo, ebony figurine, lamnidae gloves, sureshot glasses, sangi slippers, etc... there are many decent items to get that will improve your character significantly but only cost a few mil each, rather than hundreds of millions each as with AI armor. As others have mentioned, adjust your expectations and pick your battles. You are not going to be able to just stand there and take on a 174 agent twink, so find someone else to fight. Not everyone on BS is a crazy PVP twink, not by a long shot. Last week I ran into a soldier on TL5 BS using TMS6... go fight those people instead. Lastly, go with a friend and team up. You will stand a much better chance than going it solo, and it will be more fun too.

I've updated my gear (a good chunk), I do use up-do-date research, top RK nanos, token board is my largest issue. My free movements are RK ones and take 5-6 spams to remove roots, couldn't get motr (they only killed hezak once), and no UWoS. I would suggest looking at my thread: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=563898

I am level 160 now. I haven't found many TWINKED or decent players in tl5 who wanted to run BS. I've also found that my org is inactive at night time (US), and and I guess you are right about team > solo.

But I've tackled the gear issues I do believe. And as far as stat scaling, I still believe that TL5 has the worst stat scaling in the game, period. An "average" TL has no chance or reason to be in the BS because they will get slaughtered by anyone who spend lots of credits or more then a few weeks of properly gearing.

I believe, in all honesty, that gear should not dictate the game to the degree of which it does. If you disagree, please do state it here. As stat scaling is my #1 beef right now.