Things that can be done to improve FC's profit (long)

[Xaijen]

These a few things that shouldn't require too much effort on FC's part (or at least, not massive game reworks), but will improve their profit due lower running costs and a better game, leading to a larger playerbase

I'm currently a froob, but was a paying customer 2 years ago (paid for roughly one year). The reason I'm a froob at the moment is because I'm trying to determine if I want to go back to AO or AoC.

I enjoy Funcom's games and I have a special place in my heart for AO (was my first MMO). I really care for AO, and I want to see it alive and well for as long as financially possible. Therefore I'm making these suggestions to improve FC's incentive for running the game.

Lowering Running Costs

1. Impose an automatic log-out-if-AFK system
It should be able to measure the stress on the servers to determine how long players can stay AFK for before being kicked. This mechanic is already applied in AoC, so it shouldn't be too hard to apply to AO. It should be noted that this will disadvantage some self-pocketers (paying 2 accounts, which is beneficial for FC), so this could possibly only be applied to froobs, or at least paid accounts are allowed to be logged on longer than froobs.

2. Consider using P2P technology to distribute the patches
This is already done for the game client, which is great, but not for the patches (afaik). I respect that some (or a lot of?) players are limited to using dial-up, so it might be better to offer players the option of using P2P for downloading the patches. Perhaps before patching starts, give the user the option of using P2P or Direct Download from the servers.

Rest assured that many people will take up the option of using P2P, not only because they want to help FC out, but simply because P2P is hip at the moment :P

3. Implement NPC buff vendors!
Lots and lots of players have multiple froob accounts (often logged into two or more at once) to serve as buff-totems when they desire. Due to the shrinking player base, there is more and more reason for players to have froob accounts for buffs, saving them the trouble of running around the major centres for an hour looking for someone to help them out.

This causes stress on the account/player database, and on the servers for having to manage two or more logged-in characters for ONE player. I'd imagine that this issue alone would account for the vast majority of unnecessary running costs for AO; implementing an NPC buff vendor and suggestion #4 would eliminate many cases of players putting large amounts of unnecessary stress on the servers.

The buff vendors would probably take the form of terminals that sell NODROP pills that can be right-clicked to buff the character with that buff (not the target). Any other method isn't feasible nor sensible - if you're considering something similar to the surgery clinic for each profession, how will you know how much each buff costs? How would you specify which buff you want from that profession? NPC Chat? Lengthy and inconvenient when you're in a rush.

The pills should decompose on zoning out of the room, and so should the buffs. The higher level/reqs of the desired buff, the more expensive it should be. There should only be pills for Rubi-Kan target +ability/skill buffs - excludes things like reflects, absorbs, +HP buffs, etc. Increasing dependence on credits is NOT a good thing, as it increases players' incentive to buy credits, so these pills should only be useful as a twinking tool, not complementary to combat/survival, as that's what other players are for :P This is an MMO, after all.

There should be no pills for SL target buffs (like Engineer tradeskill buffs) otherwise this will eliminate incentive for players having multiple paid accounts too, which FC doesn't want :P

Low level buffs like teachings, masteries, ES and FG should be significantly cheap (~30k per pill, MAX). Prices should suit all player types. Some people don't have hundreds of millions of credits (I know a 220 who has less than 5m last time I checked), and if pills are insanely priced, people will continue making froob buffing alts. Furthermore, its important not to exclude newbie players from these pills, and again, increase a newb's dependence on credits when earning them is hard enough already (requiring third party programs FTL).

If pill vendors are implemented, they should be seen as a standard facet of the game available for everyone, not something that only the rich and famous can afford. Although its important to reward those who have experience and put effort into their character, these pills are going to make a big difference to your overall performance. There has to be some equality between players.

Although credit drains are always important (they help make things easier for the newbie coming into the game), don't get carried away. In the scheme of things, lowering running costs by lowering incentive to have multiple free accounts is more important than having a slightly less inflated economy, so don't get carried away when pricing the pills.

Put NPC buff vendors in all major cities and areas: Borealis, Newland, ICC, Rome, Trade, Ent, OA, WA (others?). There should be a bank and surgery clinic in these rooms.

4. Improve the banking function.
Another incentive that players have to have multiple froob accounts is for bank alts. Here are some sub-suggestions that I have that can significantly improve banking in AO, and hopefully eliminate any need that players might have for bank alts.

• Enable characters to access an account-wide bank.
• Give both the character bank and account bank a unique interface (not just a cheap inventory copy).
• This interface should allow users to create categories with definable icons (by dropping an item on the icon box to set the icon for that category). Categories should be minimisable, scrollable, renameable, and most importantly, searchable. Searching shouldn't be too hard to implement, as I'd imagine it would mostly just be a copy and paste from the GMS code
• The item limit (in bags or not) should be quite modest for character banks, and quite large for account banks. I'm not really sure what's a fair figure, but paid accounts should definitely have more room than froobs.
• Allow the purchase of more slots for per-character banks AND/OR account-wide banks with paid points. Although the $$$ opportunity in this is tempting, don't get carried away and make item limits for froobs/sloobs aggravatingly small such that they essentially have to purchase more slots. To any FC employees reading this, I refer you to my insight into gamer psychology at the bottom of this post, in yellow text.
• There should be no item limits on categories, just an overall item limit for the bank itself.
• Allow paid players to hold right-click on an item in the bank to select an option "Send to shop." Selecting this option would open up a small interface allowing them to enter the price of the item.
• There should also be a right-click option called "Mail" that would open up the incoming mail interface with that item ready to be mailed.
• Another right-click option for items in the bank should be "Check on GMS," which opens up the GMS interface with the search fields set to that item with nearby QLs (say, 20 or so QLs). This option should be selectable by froobs, but it opens up a messagebox notifying them that the feature is only available to paid players.
• Enable the depositing of credits into your character and account banks! The limit should be like 1 trillion credits on each bank. There's no good reason why it shouldn't be; it's stupid how the rich are forced to make an organisation to store just ~4b creds.
• Other nice ideas/features of a bank I can't think of atm :P

Lots of these suggestions for the bank are made to really unlock the economy-playing potential that any complicated game can tap. Lots of players enjoy playing the market, and really familiarising with the game's economy. It's often a very important factor for them staying in the game; it keeps them entertained.

A fine example of a game tapping into this widely-untapped field is EVE. The marketing/economic tools in that game is immense (when you search for items, you're supplied with a graph of the pricing of that item over a definable time period, to name one feature). It just so happens that its economy is what keeps a lot of players of that game occupied.

EVE was released in 2002, and its playerbase is growing. There's no reason why AO can't follow EVE's lead in the ingame-economy field, and supply players with a series of mature marketing tools which they can use to sell, buy and price their items, and study the economy.

Improving the banking interface, and integrating it with the market, is an important step in doing that.

5. Disable the creation of froob accounts with email addresses already in use by other accounts.
Pretty self-explanatory; done to discourage the creation of multiple accounts for ONE person. There's no reason one person should have the privileged of having virtually unlimited character slots.

6. Send out emails to froob accounts with similar details that these froob accounts will soon be disabled.
Design a tool that can be accessed from the account page that will give you a chance to merger toons from your similar froob accounts into one. Just an idea, but this is how I'd imagine it would operate:

• Emails sent out warning that froob accounts that share an email address will be disabled on a certain date (1 month warning?), and deleted a few months after that.
• A tool is ready and accessible from the account page. You enter the username/password of your other froob accounts, to signify that you wish to transfer characters from that account into the account that you are accessing the tool from.
• The email address of the account that you wish to transfer froobs from will then recieve an email saying that the account with the details "blablabla" wishes to extract your characters. There'll be a link on that email to allow the extraction of characters for that account.
• Once the froob account has given permission to have its characters extracted by your main froob account (the one that won't be disabled), you log into your main froob account page, open up the tool, re-enter the username/password of the froob account that gave permission, and you can start dragging toons from that account into the spare slots on that main froob account.
• Once all the desired character transfers have been made, the main froob account will then be able to disable the froob account that gave permission.
• Once the due date has been reached for the disabling of froob accounts, all froob accounts that are still enabled and share an email address will be disabled. An email will be sent to the shared email address, which will the give the option of which froob account to enable.
• Froobs will then be able to play on their main froob account, with all their main toons (without this effort, those with toons spread across accounts would have otherwise had them deleted).
• One month after froob accounts have been disabled, those that were disabled by a main froob account (gave permission etc) will be deleted. Those that were automatically disabled (more than 2 accounts enabled that shared email address) would be deleted after 3 months or so.

And thus, the size of the player database will have been significantly decreased, lowering running costs for FC

By the way: yes, this will mean that paid players will be able to have 1 or more paid accounts, AND a complementary froob account. I don't think there's any problem with that. Paid players should never be inconvenienced compared to froobs, ever.

7. Prune inactive froob accounts.
For obvious reasons, just send out warnings first. 6 months without logging in is a generous time frame to be considered inactive, IMHO.

8. Finally, pass on the cost savings onto the customer!
AO is very expensive compared to other MMOs out at the moment, given that it's a game released in 2001. The cost of subscribing is a major detractor for lots of people upgrading from froobdom, and a major reason for lots of people cancelling. Make it cheaper; it mightn't show any benefits in the short term, but in the long term it will. Don't let greed rule you FC, do what's commercially smart.

More to come!

[Xaijen]

Improving froob retention rates

1. Replace, or significantly revamp/improve the ICC Shuttleport. Add more creative quests.
Been mentioned thousands of times previous, and I'm sure FC is aware of the issue by now. I'll just add my 2c: players shouldn't be thrown straight onto a beach, with a crappy uninformative intro, and no real guidance. The "tips" system is stupid and annoying; you could at least include a lot of info .xml's with the client, with an opening one open as they log in.

If you're going to keep the Shuttleport, put the welcome hall and crash scene back in. I know that the FC employees reading this right now are probably saying "But 90% of newbs didn't know where to go in the welcome hall, and just logged off!" I'll tell you this now: you can't fix that, it's just the way things are with MMORPGs. It's a bit like web designers are aware that 90% of visitors to the website only spend 3 seconds on it, or whatever. You can't fix that; just make the best website you can and the rest will follow.

Furthermore, although they're cute, take out the leets from the starter beach. They should only be for social/humour, but as it is at the moment it's just making a mockery of the game :/

In regards to quests, EVERY quest on the shuttleport atm is kill X of mob Y, apart from the clan shoulderpads quest. It gives a very bad impression of the game. Also put in an AI quest that rewards them with customised AI weapons suitable to their class that froobs can wear, but that have low MBS.

2. Put in quests that start on newbie island, and lead onto the mainland (I'm thinking the subway, but RK world stuff could be just as good), that equip newbs with some stuff to get started; better weapon, some armour (beyond the newcomer's) and money.
Newbs need guidance; although the mentor system is great and good idea, it shouldn't be necessary. Make some stages of the quest require a team (or at least a partner), just in case they're starting to doubt if AO is an MMO or not.

I remember a few years ago when you hit level 5, you got a popup message welcoming you to go to the subway to assist in cleaning it up. Put that back in, and make it initiate it a quest. Let your recruiter on the shuttleport give you some tips about it.

Make sure that the quest outlines CLEARLY what you have to do, but yet is still interesting. Most newbs aren't going to bother googling for help, they'll just log off.

3. Significantly improve low QL mission rewards, OR provide semi-repeatable quests that give nice cash rewards.
A QL10 mission should give 40k or so credits. Higher QL mission rewards should stay the same; just change the scaling. If newbs told they have to download a third party program to earn a set of QL20 imps, they're not going to be impressed.

4. Eliminate the need for ClickSaver, but make sure there's still incentive to BUY popular low QL rollable items.
Allow players to search for missions based on reward, BUT don't allow players to instantly get a mission with a QL22 Treatment Rifle just by entering the name of it. Make it take some time for it to turn up (put a "scan" or "wait" option on the interface that takes a few minutes), so that newbs can still make money from doing this. People are paid for items according to how much effort it takes to obtain them. If it will take little effort to roll certain items, people won't pay as much as they do now for them.

5. Add quests for the subway, ToTW and SoM with nice rewards that provide incentive to team with others.
Offer nice rewards, and preferably not rewards that are attainable (at least, easily) by other means. Foreman's is semi-complete in this respect. The questline for the place is great, and fun to do with friends, and the rewards are OK (the collar is nice). But yet we still don't see teams forming outside Foreman's to do XYZ quest, it's just teaming to kill bloaters over and over and over, which isn't not fun. There should be quests (possibly repeatable?) that require teaming and offer a nice reward.

5. Lessen the XP nerf while teaming.
I'd imagine that lots of people, including myself, are reluctant to team with others at low levels because they're often still using the starter weapon at lvl 15 (not really their fault, I was like them once). They ask me if I want to team, but there's no incentive for me too; in fact, its a disadvantage because the contribution that they'd make to DPS doesn't account for the XP nerf while teaming. Make the XP nerf smaller, and more people will team at lower levels.

6. Changes to Run Speed are reportedly in the pipeline, but whatever it is, lowbies should have significantly more RS.
This is one of the reasons, amongst many, no one really does anything in rural RK these days; it takes too long to get to good levelling grounds. Lowbies RS should give them the same speed that (at least) 200 RS gives at the moment.

7. Increase exposure to rural RK.
As mentioned above, rural RK is a deadzone these days. It's a pity, because FC designed a massive, intricate world, and to see so much of it practically untouched these days is qite sad IMO, this is because:

1. It takes too long to get to good levelling spots.
2. It doesn't provide as good XP, as appropriately levelled mobs are either too far apart, or too close and thus dangerous.
3. It's boring.
4. Majority of people aren't aware of any good spots in rural RK for their level.
5. There's no good loot.

1 can be addressed by improving the base speed of characters, and also adding more whompah locations around RK. 2 can be addressed by increasing respawn speeds, and possibly, appropriately improving the XP gained from mobs in rural RK (not by much, just enough to compensate to be competitive with dungeon XP'ing). 3 could be addressed by adding some unique mobs to certain hotspots around the place (I'm thinking of the Mystic Circle in Greater Omni Forest - why does that have to be empty?), and adding some quests for rural RK, with coordinates.

4 could be addressed by quests with coordinates, and implementing the suggestion below. 5 could be addressed by adding dynas to more zones, and more unique mobs.

8. Make the unaltered AoRK as the standard map.
The map that comes as standard at the moment is pure crap, and most people don't learn that you can change it to Dovve's map until they've either left the game or have been playing it for a month :P I also notice that Onack has made a custom map that only displays the info that Dovve's map does, in hope of getting Funcom to include it in the game.

My response to this: Funcom should not try to disadvantage players, when they're just going to get the best map available, one way or another. If Funcom put in Onack's map without important markers like shops and dyna camps, then newbs, and only newbs, who aren't aware of better maps will be disadvantaged. That's all. Therefore, Funcom should include the best map available (AoRK) as standard.


Improving froob upgrade rates

1. Allow froobs to enter Jobe platform.
Jobe is a beautiful city, and letting froobs get a taste of the eye candy that SL has to offer can only be beneficial to upgrade rates

2. Customise the loot of aliens in the froob starter area (ICC SHuttleport, or whatever the new one will be, if any) to drop AI weapons that are equipable by froobs, possibly only in the starting area (i.e. they'll have playshift requirements).
So what if lowbies with expansions lose their advantage for a while. It'll build up froobs dependance on expansion-only weapons, until they hit the MBS and the weapon starts to get outdated. Furthermore, this would address the common issue of newbs not knowing where to get a better weapon. Even a QL10~ AI weapon with an MBS of 100 will get them to ToTW. It could even be considered to allow them to obtain a low QL AI weapon through an AI quest on the starter area (just so they don't see the AI expansion as killing only two types of aliens over and over and over to get loot :P)

3. Allow froobs to open the perk and research windows, and see the benefits.

4. Get ARKs to do more SL tours (like, once a day).

5. Allow froobs to create characters that start in SL, but don't allow them to exit the area.
However, don't allow them to create Keepers or Shades though, since they're kinda boring at low levels and would create a bad impression. It's slower levelling in the SL starter than on the Shuttleport, so add an XP bonus to the mobs there.

Froob players will upgrade only out of the attraction of convenience as a payed player.
Inconvenience as a froob player only makes you want to leave the game; not upgrade.
There's a fine difference between the attraction of convenience and attraction of not being inconvenienced.

However, if froob players are to upgrade, it's important that they know of the conveniences of a payed player.
If they don't know, why will they want to upgrade?

[Xaijen]

Increasing game exposure

These suggestions are things that I recommend only be done nearing or following the launch of the new engine, and many of them are reportedly already in the works. Just thought I'd mention them anyway, just in case :P

1. Nearing launch of the new engine, make an effort to have retail copies of AO distributed to stores around the world.
Hopefully this shouldn't take too much effort; FC could just use the old packaging/manual, if they're still in business with the same distributor. The retail copies could be sold at $20-$30, and are thus a nice monetary oppurtunity.

2. Redesign the website to have useful and helpful information for the potential player.
Also advertise the $5/month SL option, not only the froob program. Supply enticing multimedia, like footage of SL, raiding, PvP and parties.

3. Encourage an AO community advertising effort.
Encourage players to mention the game and the recently improved graphics (and how it's undergone so much improvement over the years) on forums around the internet, and to their friends and colleagues.

Supply fliers that players can print off and pin to noticeboards at school, university (college) and work.

Supply images that people can put on their website, linking to the AO website.

4. Invest in advertising, and put ads on FC websites.
Be brave and put ads for AO in the AoC launcher. Even consider putting them on the AoC website. Put them all over funcom.com.

Also get ads on the usual gaming websites, if only for a week or two; Tentonhammer, MMORPG.com, 1up.com etc, and even the more general websites like Lifehacker and Kotaku, although they will be expensive.

You also need to get new ads that show off, or at least mention the new graphics: "Sci-Fi MMO" + "Unrivalled graphics" + "Free to play" + Cyberpunk chick with SMG in background = very enticing


Getting players to return, and keeping them!

1. Offer a free fortnight of play to old subscribers to celebrate the release of the new engine.

2. If it's not too much work, implement a system that will collate the offline tells that the old subscribers' characters have recieved, and put them in the email sent out to notify them of the free fortnight of play.
Notify existing players of this before the emails are sent out, so that theoretically old subscribers will see a few messages from their old friends in the game. This would influence them to come back

It might also be smart to mention the characters tied the account for each email; this might bring back memories for a few old players, further increasing incentive to return

3. Offer a limited-time special on Legacy of the Xan, perhaps for the same fortnight that old subscribers can play for free.
A common reason that old subscribers often only temporarily return is that they say it takes too much effort to update their character with all the new content, and familiarise themselves with the new game mechanics that change, year in year out.

Returning players will be reluctant to stay, because they know they'll have a great need to get LoX to remain competitive and stay on top of their game. Offering them a limited time special on LoX will give returning players increased incentive to not only buy it, but also stay and play for a few more months.

[Xaijen]

3rd Reserve.

[Saetos]

Not a bad list, however:

Originally Posted by Xaijen 5. Disable dual-logging with froob accounts. This should ONLY be done once a buff vendor and significant improvements to AO banking have been implemented, such that the only benefit of having multiple froob accounts is so that you replace the need of playing with other players (getting combat buffs, doing content that requires teaming). This an MMO, and interaction between players should always be encouraged! Always! (I'm often triple-logged, btw)

This solves nothing. If a player owns two computers (which I find many actually do) then unless I'm missing something, a player can play two froob accounts on two seperate laptops/computers. Probably not as convenient as alt-tabbing but it's a change that accomplishes little to nothing, and all because it's "not as it was intended". FunCom knows we duallog seperate accounts and they have done zero to curb it.

6. Disable the creation of froob accounts with email addresses already in use by other accounts. Pretty self-explanatory; done to discourage the creation of multiple accounts for ONE person. There's no reason one person should have the privileged of having virtually unlimited character slots.

This also really doesn't accomplish anything. You can keep making email addresses again and again on pages like Yahoo, so all a player has to do is make a new email account and bam, there's another froob account they can make.

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by Saetos This solves nothing. If a player owns two computers (which I find many actually do) then unless I'm missing something, a player can play two froob accounts on two seperate laptops/computers. Probably not as convenient as alt-tabbing but it's a change that accomplishes little to nothing

Originally Posted by Saetos This also really doesn't accomplish anything. You can keep making email addresses again and again on pages like Yahoo, so all a player has to do is make a new email account and bam, there's another froob account they can make.

You're right; it doesn't "solve" the issue. But it goes a long way in discouraging it.

The fact of the matter is that creating a 2nd account, and dual-logging with it is absurdly easy at the moment. Funcom should do whatever it can to discourage it.

Originally Posted by Saetos ... and all because it's "not as it was intended". FunCom knows we duallog seperate accounts and they have done zero to curb it.

Are you insinuating that FC intended for froobs to be dual-logged? Why in the heck would FC want that? How is it in their interests?

[Saetos]

Originally Posted by Xaijen Are you insinuating that FC intended for froobs to be dual-logged? Why in the heck would FC want that? How is it in their interests?

I doubt they were in their offices biting their fingernails worrying if people were going to make 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 accounts (that could have belonged to anyone else anyway, so server load is unchanged) and play as a single player. It all trickles down to the same total revenue (if not zero ), the same server load, but the enjoyment of the player is enhanced, if his style is multiboxing.

I don't know why you want to "discourage" multiboxing especially as you say yourself that you triple-log at times. It's harmless; very handy for a person to be able to log his agent for sense and agility buffs, his fixer for GSF/Fgrid to go to city shops, etc.

[Edit ftw] Looked at newest reserved post. Nice points there; think it'd even be enough just to let froobs explore the perk and research windows, and see what kind of awesome bonuses and attacks they're missing from not being paid [/ftw]

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by Saetos I doubt they were in their offices biting their fingernails worrying if people were going to make 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 accounts (that could have belonged to anyone else anyway, so server load is unchanged) and play as a single player. It all trickles down to the same total revenue (if not zero ), the same server load

That makes no sense. If the same size playerbase will have less accounts per player, and less people are multi-logged (I know I will be, although we have 5 computers in the house, only one is in my room and I'm not going to move a 2nd in here, or run from room to room :P), then server load will be lower, and the size of the accounts database smaller, thus running costs lower.

Originally Posted by Saetos ... the enjoyment of the player is enhanced, if his style is multiboxing. I don't know why you want to "discourage" multiboxing especially as you say yourself that you triple-log at times. It's harmless

Although, yeah, people would definitely prefer being able to log alts and get unhindered buffs for free without paying for pills, it's just not how it's ought to be. It's a common attribute of RPG'er psychology that they have trouble losing something that they've become to accustomed to You just have to take it on the chin and admit that it's basically cheating.

It's not harmless, it's making people more dependant on themselves, which is bad for an MMO. By discouraging multi-logging, players will rely one another for combat buffs, but yet they won't inconvenienced by having to run around cities for hours on end trying to twink stuff on. And as mentioned, it increases running costs for FC.

And yes, although I do it myself (I have an MP for masteries, v. useful on my engineer main), I know that its cheating. On the plus side, with the changes I propose, at least I won't have to bother about levelling alts any more, when I can just buy pills for when I need them instead - that's useful too.

Originally Posted by Saetos very handy for a person to be able to log his agent for sense and agility buffs, his fixer for GSF/Fgrid to go to city shops, etc.

If players are meant/allowed to have a fixer alt for Fgrid, why is there the Empty Data Receptacle Container then?

Originally Posted by Saetos [Edit ftw] Looked at newest reserved post. Nice points there; think it'd even be enough just to let froobs explore the perk and research windows, and see what kind of awesome bonuses and attacks they're missing from not being paid [/ftw]

Thanks :-) Perks/research aint the only advantage of being a payed player though, so I think froobs should be given a taste test of the other areas too (like just getting a peek into SL to see it for themselves, just getting those first few levels with AI gear, etcetera).

[BugsCoT]

-sigh-

You speak of inconvenience... but it's easy to inconvenience people for the intent of profit. However, allowing unfettered access is an approach that has landed so many payed accounts from the froob program.

Also, froobs bring in income as well. The billboards generate ad revenue, and froobs are typically the only ones to see them. Given that the billboards all over cities and inside team missions and shops, I don't see them being too terrible of a financial burden.

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by BugsCoT You speak of inconvenience... but it's easy to inconvenience people for the intent of profit.

I know, which FC has to be careful of not doing.

If you're referring to these suggestions of not allowing 2 or more froob accounts logged into at once, or one payed and one or more froobs (although 2 payed accounts are allowed, I'm suggesting) as "inconveniencing for the sake of profit" then that's terribly misguided.

It's "inconveniencing for the sake of ensuring the game is played how it should be, for the sake of encouraging player interaction, and for the sake of eliminating unnecessary server load to lower running costs and passing these savings onto paying customers"

As I said before, you're just a typical gamer having trouble of letting go of something that shouldn't be, but you've grown accustom to all the same.

I'd read the EULA to see if this is mentioned at all there, but I'm hungry :P

Originally Posted by BugsCoT However, allowing unfettered access is an approach that has landed so many payed accounts from the froob program.

How do any these suggestions allow "unfettered access" for froobs? I think you might have this thread mistaken with the other one about allowing froobs access to SL/AI weapons or whatever (which I think is completely insane, by the way). The "access" that I'm suggesting for froobs is merely as a taster, it wouldnt over them any advantage over payed accounts whatsoever... Unless, the only reason that you're paying is to access the SL starter area :P

Originally Posted by BugsCoT Also, froobs bring in income as well. The billboards generate ad revenue, and froobs are typically the only ones to see them. Given that the billboards all over cities and inside team missions and shops, I don't see them being too terrible of a financial burden.

As I said, I'm a froob. I haven't seen any advertisements in over a week (and the ONLY advertisement I saw a week ago was for Coca Cola, since then it's just been Dreadloch ads... Although when I was just coming back about a month ago there was a video advertisement in shops for gum - in my time back as a froob in the last month, I've only seen 2 different ads).

Froobs are definitely a financial burden at the moment, as it seems FC is having trouble getting advertisers.

Either way, what's your point?

[Mekh]

@OP

Good and valid points all of them and while I would not like being to dual log as I do now, I agree it would be better overall for the game.

You've got my support for your post.

[BugsCoT]

Originally Posted by Xaijen Stuff.

The reading comprehension is not strong with this one.

Anyways, I'm not worried about ever seeing stuff like this ever make it in.

[Ayria]

Overall some nice stuff; however a few things:

Originally Posted by Xaijen 1. Impose an automatic log-out-if-AFK system

No. If the servers can't handle a few people logged in for a while then they certainly can't handle a lively population. If you're annoyed because you were buff begging from an AFK person, tough.

Life is unexpected, if I have to go afk for a while I don't want to be logged out for it because chances are I'm in the middle of something.

Originally Posted by Xaijen 3. Implement NPC buff vendors!

No. If you can't find a buff tough luck. The point of an MMO is socialism, otherwise you may as well play an offline game. Buck up, ask people, or do without.

Originally Posted by Xaijen 5. Disable dual-logging with froob accounts.

Why? Even if a buff terminal were added (which I do not support) and banking improved why remove dual logging? Because you personally cannot or do not take advantage of the benefits of it? Because you got duped by someone who used it? Or because you have some personal idea that dual logging is somehow against the rules of the game.

Sure you may find it in the EULA, but that's irrelevant. Funcom doesn't act on all those things. Technically spitting on the sidewalk j-walking are illegal, do you see cops stopping everyone who does it? Some rules just don't matter.

I see no reason to stop people from dual logging. It doesn't hurt you, or the game, or Funcoms bottom line.

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by BugsCoT The reading comprehension is not strong with this one. Anyways, I'm not worried about ever seeing stuff like this ever make it in.

You're welcome to elaborate.


Hey Ayria, long time no see I'm playing on RK1 these days.

Originally Posted by Ayria No. If the servers can't handle a few people logged in for a while then they certainly can't handle a lively population.

What the servers can and can't handle is irrelevant. These suggestions are being made to prevent the servers having to deal with unnecessary strain. It's senseless to think that if the servers CAN operate under a certain load, that they may as well ALWAYS be running at that load.

Originally Posted by Ayria If you're annoyed because you were buff begging from an AFK person, tough.

Well that sure came out of left field ;/ My motives for this post are mentioned in the first 3 paragraphs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by Ayria Life is unexpected, if I have to go afk for a while I don't want to be logged out for it because chances are I'm in the middle of something.

If you can afford to go AFK for 1 hour while you're "in the middle of something," I hardly think its fair to say you were in the middle of it, now, is it? Unless that "something" is watching ingame grass grow...

Either way, it takes 15 seconds max to log back in. Tough luck :P

Lots of other MMOs implement a kick-if-inactive-for-a-certain-amount-of-time system, even Age of Conan, because the developers of these games recognise that there's no reason why players should be able to idly sit AFK for hours and hours on end, putting strain on the servers for what?

As a matter of fact, I don't know of an MMO besides AO that doesn't have a kick-if-inactive system.

Originally Posted by Ayria No. If you can't find a buff tough luck. The point of an MMO is socialism, otherwise you may as well play an offline game. Buck up, ask people, or do without.

First of all, here's the definition of socialism for you :P

Second, if I can't find a buff or will want a buff regularly (and cant get it from vendors), I'm (and everyone else) just going to install AO on another computer with another email account and get it that way.

As I said, if buff vendors + improved banking aren't implemented before the measures to lower load on servers, then there's really no point to it, because players will just get buffs one way or another. Buff vendors = everyone wins (those looking for buffs, those who would otherwise had to buff them, and FC with lower running costs not having to handle multiple accounts simultaneously for one player).

Third, if you read the entire post, you'll see I made lots of references to the importance of player interaction and suggestions were made that would improve player interaction AO.

My argument is that as it is at the moment, with a shrinking playerbase, more and more people are turning to creating buffing characters on alternate accounts simply because its more convenient then the alternative (having to find other players). There's no "socialism" in that anyway, as you put it ^^

If you enforce restrictions on having no more than 1 account logged in at once, players will just circumvent it and nothing will be solved; which is why buff vendors are required to offer a viable alternative that people will actually use. And since more and more people are becoming more self-dependant with buffing toons and the like, there's no loss of "socialism" with the introduction of buff vendors :P

Originally Posted by Ayria Why? Even if a buff terminal were added (which I do not support) and banking improved why remove dual logging?

I stated why multiple times throughout the post.

Originally Posted by Ayria Because you personally cannot or do not take advantage of the benefits of it?

Originally Posted by Xaijen I'm often triple-logged, btw

Originally Posted by Ayria Because you got duped by someone who used it?

Again, my motives for the suggestions are mentioned in the first three paragraphs of the post.

Originally Posted by Ayria Or because you have some personal idea that dual logging is somehow against the rules of the game.

Oh please, don't even bother trying to argue that multi-logging conforms with the rules of the game...

On one hand you argue that the point of MMOs is "socialism," and on the other you say multi-logging should be allowed and actually conforms with the rules of the game? *gazes in awe*

Originally Posted by Ayria Sure you may find it in the EULA, but that's irrelevant. Funcom doesn't act on all those things. Technically spitting on the sidewalk j-walking are illegal, do you see cops stopping everyone who does it? Some rules just don't matter.

This rule matters, and should be enforced, because it affects not only FC's bottom line (and thus the longevity of the game), but also the "socialism" aspects of the game. Interactivity should always be encouraged, and supporting multi-logging does not do that, sorry.

Originally Posted by Ayria I see no reason to stop people from dual logging. It doesn't hurt you, or the game, or Funcoms bottom line.

No, multi-logging doesn't hurt me (I'm actually benefiting from it as I type this, getting masteries from my MP for my trader).

However, multi-logging does hurt the game and ultimately FC's bottom line (not just in running costs, but also the repercussions of a hurting game) a lot, and if you think otherwise you're quite deluded.

[drops]

Originally Posted by Xaijen This rule matters, and should be enforced, because it affects not only FC's bottom line (and thus the longevity of the game), but also the "socialism" aspects of the game. Interactivity should always be encouraged, and supporting multi-logging does not do that, sorry.

That rule is about characters on the same account. Multi-logging characters on different accounts is legit.

Originally Posted by BugsCoT Anyways, I'm not worried about ever seeing stuff like this ever make it in.

Me neither.

[Ayria]

Originally Posted by Xaijen Hey Ayria, long time no see I'm playing on RK1 these days.

If you're the Xai I'm thinking of. Hai.

Originally Posted by Xaijen However, multi-logging does hurt the game and ultimately FC's bottom line (not just in running costs, but also the repercussions of a hurting game) a lot, and if you think otherwise you're quite deluded.

Elaborate.

Please, explain to us all how allowing people to log in multiple accounts hurts the game. If I have two computers and pay for two accounts and log in both at the same time I get the same result and the result on Funcoms resources are the same. How is it different if I dual log from one PC instead of two?

I am most certainly not deluded, I'm just not convinced that two people logged characters logged in by the same person hurts the game. If that were the case then a person owning two computers logging in two toons, a perfectly "in the rules" method, would harm the game too. Are you saying that we should limit AO to one client per household?

[tiralee]

Originally Posted by Xaijen If players are meant/allowed to have a fixer alt for Fgrid, why is there the Empty Data Receptacle Container then?

The Empty Data Receptacle Container still needs a Fixer to fill it. Once filled it's only good for one use before needing to be filled again. Then you need a Fixer to fill it again. It's not that much different than having a Fixer FGrid you -- except that you can save that FGrid for a later use.

Actually, rather than NPC buff vendors (which I'm against for many reasons), I'd rather see Empty Containers for buffs that are similar to the Empty Data Receptacle Container for FGrid: can only be filled by the profession that can cast the buff, and only good for one use before needing to be filled again.

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by Ayria If you're the Xai I'm thinking of. Hai.

Xaislain ye :P Back in AO for a bit. How's PO going?

Originally Posted by Ayria Please, explain to us all how allowing people to log in multiple accounts hurts the game.

Allowing people to multi-log will result in higher strain on the servers, when the needs they're trying to satisfy by multi-logging could be satisfied by more sensible means, that don't result in higher strain on the servers.

Otherwise, higher strain on the servers results in higher running costs for FC, resulting in higher costs on the customers, resulting in less customers overall, resulting in a dying game.

Furthermore, enabling multi-logging also means players become more self-dependant, which isn't good for an MMO. Although it could be argued that buff vendors would make them no less self-dependant, as I mentioned before they'd only be used for stats/abilities buffs; not combat buffs. So discouraging multi-logging would theoretically result in less players bothering or being able to multi-log to buff themselves with combat buffs (RRFE, HnQ etc), and as a result there would be increased interactivity between players, as many will require one another for combat buffs

I hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ayria If I have two computers and pay for two accounts and log in both at the same time I get the same result and the result on Funcoms resources are the same. How is it different if I dual log from one PC instead of two?

I mentioned in the post that dual-logging payed accounts would be allowed, simply because it's in FC's monetary interests and because that customer is paying for two connections. It could be argued then "what's the point if payed accounts can still multi-log?" - people who pay for two accounts are in the minority of the playerbase, so those who continue to pay for two accounts won't damage the game as severely as allowing every man and his dog to have 10 froob accounts.

It's not different if you dual-log from one PC instead of two, but the idea is that (a) you shouldn't really need to or bother (if buff vendors + banking improvements are implemented), and (b) disabling two instances of AO at one time on a computer should discourage a lot of other people who still might desire to be self-dependant. Of course, there will be the odd few who will set themselves up with two computers to multi-log, but again, they'll be in the minority and there's not much FC can do about it.

Originally Posted by Ayria If that were the case then a person owning two computers logging in two toons, a perfectly "in the rules" method, would harm the game too.

Yes, it does. But I'm arguing that less people will be bothered to set up two computers to dual log then are people multi-logging at the moment.

Originally Posted by Ayria Are you saying that we should limit AO to one client per household?

I have no idea how you inferred that; in fact, that's precisely the reason why I'm arguing that FC should only limit one AO instance per computer and nothing more (like one AO instance per IP address), because they can't exclude those who share connections with other players.

[Xaijen]

Originally Posted by tiralee The Empty Data Receptacle Container still needs a Fixer to fill it. Once filled it's only good for one use before needing to be filled again. Then you need a Fixer to fill it again. It's not that much different than having a Fixer FGrid you -- except that you can save that FGrid for a later use.

My point exactly; if dual-logging a fixer is intended/allowed/abides by the rules, then why would FC decided to add an item that allows players to save a fixer grid for later use? I don't really see them in the office saying "Oh, don't bother about adding that, players will just create a second free account and level up a fixer so that they can be self-dependant in an MMO".

Originally Posted by tiralee Actually, rather than NPC buff vendors (which I'm against for many reasons), I'd rather see Empty Containers for buffs that are similar to the Empty Data Receptacle Container for FGrid: can only be filled by the profession that can cast the buff, and only good for one use before needing to be filled again.

Nifty idea, but I don't think it should be a replacement for buff vendors. As I mentioned in my reply to Ayria, if you implement something that's any less convenient than simple buff vendors that sell pills for each stat/ability buff that decompose on zoning, then players will simply put in the effort to circumvent restrictions on multi-logging, and there will have been no point to it at all.

But Empty Receptacle Containers for other buffs are a great complementary idea to this

[Flyingengi]

lol