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Thread: City Plot Prices and Upkeep

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgesmith View Post
    And why are we complaining large house does not have a swimming pool, gym, shops, seperate bus station, bar inside it?
    My house has a bar inside it, self made, and I have a river outside the back of the house so swimming is covered, and I have enough space for some gym equipment, and technically it has a shop as I have internet. Just missing the bus station

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
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  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Bendaar View Post
    Fun for you, but not fun for the people (your "customers") which you exploited as credit providers instead of including them in the content.

    And once the number of people willing to generate credits "for you" by grinding shop food reaches a critically low number, your system will simply cease to function.

    And then we all look for a new game
    My org is not large, and I can tell you by 100% accuracy, that we can generate credits to cover upkeep for another 10 years @ 150M a month. Yes, we can come up with 1.8 Billion a year, actually we could come up with it within a month quite easily.

    If an active org does not have enough active members to cover the upkeep, well then it's not a problem of not having enough creds.... the problem is not having enough MEMBERS.
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  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    My org is not large, and I can tell you by 100% accuracy, that we can generate credits to cover upkeep for another 10 years @ 150M a month. Yes, we can come up with 1.8 Billion a year, actually we could come up with it within a month quite easily.
    Good for your org, but that doesn't help the people to whom you suggested selling lootrights (in the long run). I strongly believe selling lootrights only encourages greed and will drive people away.

    Anyway, I think current upkeep prices are ok and I still don't see a need to increase those prices.
    No further significant work is expected to be done on this project going forward.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Bendaar View Post
    Good for your org, but that doesn't help the people to whom you suggested selling lootrights (in the long run). I strongly believe selling lootrights only encourages greed and will drive people away..
    Selling LR has been part of the game for a long time now, it's an aspect of the game. PvP is part of the game, I don't like it so I don't participate in it. Same goes for LR, if you don't like it, you don't have to participate in it.
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  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    Your opinion seems to not be popular but I agree with you.

    "I" personally don't feel comfortable with selling lootrights to people for items that drop in raid instances. My thinking on games is quite different from others but I play games for the challenge of overcoming the game content. I know that in AO a lot of people either have the "been there.. done that.. don't want to do it again" mentality or the "I can't get a team" complaint, but at essence of "my" playstyle, I feel lootright selling (selling of lootrights to nodrop items) to be wrong.

    "My" view is that video game devs decide what items they don't mind being freely traded between players and what items they wish for people to obtain themselves (for whatever reason). If nodrop items were meant to be traded between players then they wouldn't have been nodrop in the first place... they'd be yesdrop. Furthermore, the selling of lootrights, in "my" opinion, contributes to the teaming problem and the lack of skill/ability to play your toon problem that I've seen quite a bit of in AO within the past 5+ years.

    So, as an individual, no.. I am not comfortable selling lootrights to people and I don't think that funding something like an organization city (orgs are about working together as a community) should promote an activity that does the opposite. And as he already stated, I go into instances to do the content and obtain gear for myself or other attendees. AO is the only game I've played where people somehow feel it is normal to obtain instance/raid gear without ever having done the instance/raid. I have been and continue to be boggled by the mentality.. but to each their own.

    The other thing is that LR selling was really a symptom of a bigger population issue. If you go back far enough you'll find that while there was some for of LR selling (i.e. someone selling LR to FoD from IS) that it was the exception, not the rule. The smaller the population got and the older the game got.. the bigger the divide between the people with lots of resources and those that were newer/in smaller orgs/etc. This, along with (on RK2 at least) neutnet, really helped promote LR selling on the server. So for those saying "hey, LR selling is just a part of the game".. yes, you are right but ask yourself why it is now such a huge part of the game when historically it was not.

    Just my 2 cents and I understand people don't agree.. but I do agree with MajorOutage's general sentiment on the matter.
    Last edited by Eventsbyjill; Feb 4th, 2013 at 01:46:38.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    I know this is just one example of how to make money, but I'm going to say it anyway: Raiding anything solely to sell lootrights is not my idea of fun in any sense of the word. Infact I find it quite sad that so many people consider this normal and acceptable as opposed to actually doing things yourself with friends and rightfully earning it.
    Welcome to Doc/Soldier/Crat-online. Log ur alts to loot after they have done ely-kites, dailies and a ton of inf-missions under the wings of a 220. New players loose out (unless they go hardcore) on legacy-repetoir cause veterans are playing expansion-content, and nothing is done. AO is a too incohesive game-experience imo.
    Last edited by leetlover; Feb 4th, 2013 at 02:17:01.
    Disclaimer: My posts should not be read by anyone.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Eventsbyjill View Post
    So for those saying "hey, LR selling is just a part of the game".. yes, you are right but ask yourself why it is now such a huge part of the game when historically it was not.
    Because historically it was harder for a smaller group of players to do the content. Not to mention that they wouldn't even have had the opportunity, since a vast majority of the lootrights being sold is from content that is instanced now and either wasn't instanced before or wasn't even implemented.

    The "all or nothing" approach that you seem to have is misleading, though. There's more grey in between the black and white of "do the content yourself" and "pay for the LR and never do the content". For instance, I personally bought the lootrights for DB agility sleeves, because they simply never dropped for me in the hundreds of times I've killed that boss. I also sold Fly Catcher's Specs lootrights because not only was it a way for me to earn money in a niche that hadn't been filled, it's an old raid that drops useful gear, but is a huge pain to get anyone to help, since it's a 2+ hour commitment.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    The "all or nothing" approach that you seem to have is misleading, though. .
    I was in no attempt trying to mislead anyone, nor did I do so. Thus me putting in quotes (for emphasis) several times the words "I", "me" and "my" as it is my opinion and not to be taken as some definitive fact of mmorpg playing. It is what I am comfortable with and how I play the game.

    And I understand what you're saying in that it is very well possible to have done content dozens of times and had the random number generator work against you. Unfortunately, I, as a player simply won't know who I am selling loot to that has never done the instance and who has simply had unlucky RNG. So, because I don't like contributing to a game environment that is against how "I" play.. I prefer to not sell loot rights.

    If other people are fine with it.. more power to them, and I've never blacklisted or not been friends with people because of this topic. I was just throwing out some support for MajorOutage's comment because it seems like people were acting as if he was crazy for saying what he said.. when to me, his comments made perfect sense.
    Last edited by Eventsbyjill; Feb 4th, 2013 at 02:59:51.
    Events by Jill is a premier event planning organization. We organize events such as scavenger hunts, educational seminars, tours, raids and social gatherings.

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  9. #249
    This thread has ranged wildly off the original topic, I suppose understandably so. I find it interesting that several people, who by their own statements on this an other threads, haven't play regularly for "several years" and have such a massive misunderstanding of the mechanics and economics of the game (such as for 3 maybe 4 years now ONLY the president and one level below president of the org can destroy buildings not anyone) have such strong opinions that arbitrary changes in rents making cities harder to afford with the stated intent of forcing people into a particular style of play is acceptable game dynamics. Especially when very few orgs will accept free, new, or casual players.

    The attitude that only those who play in a particular manner are entitles to benefits. And no whinning about people feeling entitled. All we are asking is there be a balance between the ability to bring credits into the game (not credit transfers) and the cost of maintaining cities. It is obvious funcom has drifted far to the side of credit sinks rather than trying to balance the game.

    All those that think getting into a large org, and enjoying the experience should try this experience. I did recently by starting two toons, one free and and paid, starting with zero credits, and no help from any of my bigger toons. I also tried to mimic as much as possible a new player. I tried for almost a week to get into an org neutral, Clan or Omni. neutral was the easiest. Both Clan and Omni were closed off. Could not find anyone who was "accepting" new or free toons. This invalidates, in my opinion, the claim by funcom that the intent is to force people into bigger orgs to get big cities. Big orgs have to be willing to accept people, especially new or free players who might convert to paid. Interestingly, as soon as I mentioned my mains (in each faction) I received several invites.

    Try it. The rents should be closer to what funcom initially promised they would be. No one wants handout, freebies, whatever, just a game that is fun to play and not one that caters to the dimishing number of players who feel entitled to dictate how others play.
    Last edited by Deemure; Feb 7th, 2013 at 23:53:48.

  10. #250
    I would agree with Deemure on many points ...

    Btw ... there were no changes to building rents with today's patch.

    However, I do appreciate that the time was taken to add to each building description, whether beneficial or social, the plot size and the incremental rent for planting the building. I also appreciate the four incremental small plots for small social bldgs & wampas added to the small city and the additional "wampa" spots added to the large city, plus being able to build trees, benches, etc. at the corners ...

    Kinnik

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Deemure View Post
    This thread has ranged wildly off the original topic, I suppose understandably so. I find it interesting that several people, who by their own statements on this an other threads, haven't play regularly for "several years" and have such a massive misunderstanding of the mechanics and economics of the game (such as for 3 maybe 4 years now ONLY the president and one level below president of the org can destroy buildings not anyone) have such strong opinions that arbitrary changes in rents making cities harder to afford with the stated intent of forcing people into a particular style of play is acceptable game dynamics. Especially when very few orgs will accept free, new, or casual players.

    The attitude that only those who play in a particular manner are entitles to benefits. And no whinning about people feeling entitled. All we are asking is there be a balance between the ability to bring credits into the game (not credit transfers) and the cost of maintaining cities. It is obvious funcom has drifted far to the side of credit sinks rather than trying to balance the game.

    All those that think getting into a large org, and enjoying the experience should try this experience. I did recently by starting two toons, one free and and paid, starting with zero credits, and no help from any of my bigger toons. I also tried to mimic as much as possible a new player. I tried for almost a week to get into an org neutral, Clan or Omni. neutral was the easiest. Both Clan and Omni were closed off. Could not find anyone who was "accepting" new or free toons. This invalidates, in my opinion, the claim by funcom that the intent is to force people into bigger orgs to get big cities. Big orgs have to be willing to accept people, especially new or free players who might convert to paid. Interestingly, as soon as I mentioned my mains (in each faction) I received several invites.

    Try it. The rents should be closer to what funcom initially promised they would be. No one wants handout, freebies, whatever, just a game that is fun to play and not one that caters to the dimishing number of players who feel entitled to dictate how others play.
    Agree with this post.

    It's obvious that some significant new credit sinks are needed for many reasons, but raising city rents by the amounts talked about here isn't a very good way to go about doing this. Cities are inextricably tied to the social nets we've established over the long life of AO, and, IMO, an attempt to manipulate this by turning cities into larger credit sinks and trying to force us to reorganize into larger organizations to cover it is just plain wrong headed.

    Large Organizations already have a myriad of social benefits over smaller Orgs. But if FC really wants us to gravitate towards larger Org structures, then they should add new incentives. Peripheral incentives such as more and better Org social tools, UI-based Org banks capable of handling items, etc - things that make it more attractive to be in a larger Org. What they should not be doing is manipulating variables such as city rent to such a degree that it applies pressure to small Orgs. If they do not currently have the resources to add new incentives, then they should leave well enough alone and find sources of credit sinks elsewhere.
    Last edited by Latro; Feb 8th, 2013 at 18:17:09.

  12. #252
    With all the outdoor cities empty on TL I went out exploring the original costs for an outdoor city ...

    If, the new city pricing is supposed to be based primarily on how many buildings we have I would have expected the city plot prices to be lower than the old outdoor city land/plot prices.

    This is not the case, large outdoor cities that are big enough to hold all the buildings are priced in the range of 300 - 320M. A medium city is 100 - 120M.

    This would mean the new cities on TL should be less than these amounts and instead the very small-farm city costs as much to purchase as an old large outdoor city.

    I realize all current city owners will receive a city voucher ... my point is for new players these prices are much higher when the FC claim is they are changing the prices to be more related to how many buildings you have than to the size of the plot.

    If you are making a credit sink with rents ... why are the plot prices over-valued?

    Kinnik

    p.s. The outdoor cities are empty on TL, but they don't seem to be de-activated yet ... I get all the same "purchase a city" windows as on Live. The purchase window is greyed out, but they otherwise appear active. Will they be further or more obviously de-activated when the merge goes to the new Live server?
    Last edited by Kinnikinnick; Feb 8th, 2013 at 19:22:16. Reason: outdoor cities only "look" active ...

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