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Thread: Monthly Development Update: August 2012

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by lindelu View Post
    [prose]
    Pack of Noobs
    I had the pleasure of attending the org meeting of “Pack of Noobs” on RK2 last week! Their agenda to recruit and help new players and returning players is really cool, and they brought up some very good questions about how we as a Dev Team plan to address concerns that new players may have. We discussed the possibilities of re-purposing older content, something that both designers and players have wanted for a long time, and we talked about letting froobs and paid accounts play together as one community!
    I found that there was 1 photoshopped picture about that... or... you had to warp dogg from omni-trade grid!
    Ciassene

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Mjeh, the new pvp system without a logging of Kill/Death ratio and similar stats, does promote a different playstyle that is less self preservative and more towards getting kills and not really caring much about death.
    Most modern pvp games have similar systems in place, giving some sort of overall progression and egging players on without a risk of being marked as a nobody based on their rank alone. However, most have far more granularity, allowing for a constant carrot in some way or another. On the side, they also track more indepth statistics, like accuracy, kill/death, assists, and so on... AO could do with a bit more indepth stat tracking like that.
    Exactly! AO has lost a large portion of its identity. Thanks for agreeing with me.

    I don't mind the kill count, its the duel loss count that leads people to only dueling rocks, if they're paper, but not scissors. You always learn more in a loss, than a win.

    The new title system isn't a carrot for me, its a tomato, and I hate them. As far as a nobody, the good pvpers back in the day would defarm titles so they could pwn w/o attracting attention.

    As far as the whole death thing, not having rez sickness nor losing buffs should be enough

    Moving on.
    (In response to Lindelu's link of fc reducing operation costs -> Teh former CEO Trond Arne Aas being investigated for insider trading lawl)

    As a side note: (no offense to the ao staff, I <3 you guys/gals. FC has crapped out 1.5 mmo's seemingly in the timeline we've been 'getting a new engine. Its like going to a party and there's beer. FC pulls out a case of grey goose and says you can't have any. (AoC got a new engine in that time) I would like to point out that without the success and longevity of AO, the other two wouldn't have been possible. If FC were wiser, they would invest a bit more into developing AO. They would see a sizable return with far less investment than a whole new shiny mmo with no content. It sure isn't fair to us players, and it sure as hell isn't fair to the AO staff. /end rant.

    Since I have no sig hat, I can say my hat is off to you guys!
    Last edited by lunarsolace; Sep 17th, 2012 at 17:17:53.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by gatester View Post
    amount healed, damage dealt, damage recieved, damage mitigated (absorbs and reflects), successful hits, misses, most damage within 5 seconds, within 15 seconds, within 60 seconds.

    Something tracking that sort of data, and allowing for both a total and a per round of bs or tower fight tracker. Asside from people realizing that most everything they argue about what every other profession has been able to do being entirely wrong, it would be nice.

    qft!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by lunarsolace View Post
    Exactly! AO has lost a large portion of its identity. Thanks for agreeing with me.

    I don't mind the kill count, its the duel loss count that leads people to only dueling rocks, if they're paper, but not scissors. You always learn more in a loss, than a win.

    The new title system isn't a carrot for me, its a tomato, and I hate them. As far as a nobody, the good pvpers back in the day would defarm titles so they could pwn w/o attracting attention.

    As far as the whole death thing, not having rez sickness nor losing buffs should be enough
    Continuing this just one more post, here's the new CEO of FC debating that "systems based games" are the future of FC. AO was once a lot more systems based and enjoyable to play based on the gameplay (systems) alone.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Continuing this just one more post, here's the new CEO of FC debating that "systems based games" are the future of FC. AO was once a lot more systems based and enjoyable to play based on the gameplay (systems) alone.
    Just read this. I like the following :

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Schreiner
    Developing more focused, systems-driven games allow for a smaller team without necessarily compromising the game's commercial viability. It's just a different kind of game that requires a different development philosophy and design approach. What's important to keep in mind is that a systems-driven MMO is no less of an MMO than a content-driven one. Eve Online is the perfect example of a popular systems-driven MMO that has truly engaged its audience and shown great longevity. A solid systems-driven MMO has the potential to live longer and be an even more engaging experience than a content-driven one.
    QFT !
    Thornee - resurrected lowbie, former 200 Fixer
    Stannerd - 220 Soldier
    Megusta - TL7 Doc
    Kaleeh - TL5 Shade

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciassene View Post
    I found that there was 1 photoshopped picture about that... or... you had to warp dogg from omni-trade grid!
    bite me >.<
    Former Assistant Director of Pack of Noobs

    Fake Friday with Means, and it worked!

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Continuing this just one more post, here's the new CEO of FC debating that "systems based games" are the future of FC. AO was once a lot more systems based and enjoyable to play based on the gameplay (systems) alone.
    It sounds to me like: "We want to make games, that will make money forever without any additional effort from our side." I think sandbox games are better that content driven. But they are very hard to develop. There is only one good sandbox mmorpg and many good content driven mmorpg. Also Eve is not for everyone especially not for average dumb casual player, that makes most of the income of gaming companies.
    Dragocz RK1

  8. #208
    Are you saying EVE isn't content driven? It does get expansions and updates pretty regularly, you know...

  9. #209
    No.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  10. #210

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Continuing this just one more post, here's the new CEO of FC debating that "systems based games" are the future of FC. AO was once a lot more systems based and enjoyable to play based on the gameplay (systems) alone.
    To me personally, systems-driven means stuff like ACGs and auto-generated or programmatically generated content, also valid if it's a framework for user generated content. So anything rogue-like. Or minecraft is a good example. EVE is somewhat systems-driven in my opinion, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "systems driven game" because there's not a whole lot dynamic going on that isn't of the player's doing.

  11. #211
    'Systems Driven' is just a new corporate buzzword. Easier to sell a 'Systems Driven' game to shareholders then telling them you want to make a 'Sandbox' game (sort of like the difference between 'Intelligent Design' and 'Creationism'). In either case, there is ongoing content to keep subscribers occupied and happy, be it auto-generated by the game, or by the players themselves. The key point is that said content is not reliant on ongoing additional 'content' produced by the Dev team. AO's Tower Land Control and associated battles are a small example of such a feature.

    AO's lack of a hard-coded 'backbone' of leveling quests as found in most other modern MMO's, combined with its' plethora of ad-hoc dungeons and zone ranges makes it a good candidate for shaping into a more 'sandboxy' or 'Systems Driven' game. Neither AoC nor TSW can really be driven in that direction, due to their underlying directional structure. Good PvP content that generates an active market can be used as another mechanism (Eve ships are essentially consumables). But PvM content can be as well. Look at Minecraft, Second Life, and the Tradeskill world that SWG once had.

    The Dev team should be pitching to the ppl upstairs that evolving AO into a more fully 'Systems Driven' MMO is a far cheaper, faster, and efficient way to get such a product on the market, as opposed to some 'Project X'.

    .
    .
    Dagget
    President,
    Venice Academy

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    To me personally, systems-driven means stuff like ACGs and auto-generated or programmatically generated content, also valid if it's a framework for user generated content. So anything rogue-like. Or minecraft is a good example. EVE is somewhat systems-driven in my opinion, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "systems driven game" because there's not a whole lot dynamic going on that isn't of the player's doing.
    Wow I sure thought of systems driven total different. I agree with masta that at the beginning AO was systems driven a lot more than it is today.

    Oddly enough mission are still ACG content and make up a good part of AO. It is only with the accursed Daily Missions that the random ACG style mission exception arrived. I think it has been FC that is taking AO away from a System Driven game style to be more like other MMO's. A direction that should be halted. A systems driven AO would be much fun again.

    Frankly I hate static encounters. They spawn guides and get power farmed by the optimal prof combos. AO needs its static content moved to ACG style. If for instance 12 Man was ACG and the ACG system had build options to generate say up to 200 different possible 12 Man variations there would be no guides that truly covered them all and the content would offer ****e ever time you played it. You know never the same thing twice or three times in a row. Sure you might see one again at some point but with 200 or more there would be always room for surprise.

    Now think of all the various statics we do/farm and consider them all having 200+ combos that they could be. That would be a lot of varied content that would most of the time offer you something new each time you played it. Right down to say the encounter supposed to have 1 boss and 3 mini bosses. The ACG could have 3 bosses to choose from and oh 15 mini bosses to choose from for that encounter. Now these bosses and mini-bosses would require different tool sets to deal so there could never be a truly optimal team as you would not know what the bosses where till well you had finished the content.

    I would also like FC to consider ACG zones. Sure it would take work but the rewards could be awesome. A raid of 12+ forms up and request an "outzone" mission. It reads like proceed to zone AD34 and survey the area. Elimate any hostiles and place 3 beacons in the zone so that tera-forming equipment can process the zone at a later time. These missions could scale from level 1 to 220. Provide any type of content from normal mobs to aliens and given decent rewards for completing them. The zone only existed for the raid team and then it is gone. I like surprise in my content vice run to corner A and kill 5 mobs then drag last 2 mobs to corner b and kill them and the 4 at that location. Heal up rebuff and head to corner C.

    Anyway I am with masta on this that AO was systems driven at the start and FC has taken it the wrong direction. AO could be a great systems driven game that boost nearly unlimited unique content if the ACG system was updated and used to tackle even a small part of the suggestion I made.
    Lheann
    President of When I Grow Up

    Lhisa - MA - RK1
    MaxKillz - Enf - RK1
    Namaru - Enf - RK1

    "If you find yourself loosing a fight, your tatics suck."

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    To me personally, systems-driven means stuff like ACGs and auto-generated or programmatically generated content, also valid if it's a framework for user generated content. So anything rogue-like. Or minecraft is a good example. EVE is somewhat systems-driven in my opinion, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "systems driven game" because there's not a whole lot dynamic going on that isn't of the player's doing.
    Minecraft is indeed a good example of a game that has a solid system. However, there are as many types of games as there are invented subgenres, and you can have a mix/match of all of it. But the burden to deliver ever more stuff is heavy if your gameplay does not stand up alone. Systembased to me, means a game that has a solid core of systems that allow interacting with the game in ways that will require the players to react. In EVE, you have the "sandbox, as Dagget would have it (and he's right, I guess, system is just slightly more technical ), where players interact with eachother in an open environment, and we have this thing called emergent gameplay... all very fancy and delightful once it works. When it doesn't, you just have a dull game.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Sep 19th, 2012 at 08:32:10.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  14. #214
    Sorry but what does ACG and systems-driven mean?

  15. #215
    Automatic content generation (i.e mission terminals/ SL missions)

    Systems-driven: Best way to think about this is "twinking, with maybe some strategy elements" as opposed to "We're here for the storyline."

  16. #216
    Any product made by humans in a free market economy and intended to be sold for any extended period of time needs to be renewed regularly.

    Auto/programatically/player-driven content tends to be modular and simplistic. It gets boring fast if it isnt constantly redesigned and refined. A MMORPG could gain from a modular design if it was used to create an evolving gameworld and story line. Villages being created and destroyed, NPCs moving around, mechanisms that allow factional land control to be altered, etc.

    Sandbox games dont have to be static either, you can always pour a bit of different coloured sand into it. Its still sand, but new.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    To me personally, systems-driven means stuff like ACGs and auto-generated or programmatically generated content, also valid if it's a framework for user generated content. So anything rogue-like. Or minecraft is a good example. EVE is somewhat systems-driven in my opinion, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "systems driven game" because there's not a whole lot dynamic going on that isn't of the player's doing.

    Great that we agree. Now bring back the player created missions in the mission booth.

    The reward for the mission creator could be freely picked from the current mission drop table.
    The reward for the one taking the mission deducted from the creators account. (Or/And, as it used to be, an item from the creators inventory)

    Let's say I would be too lazy to farm a set of ql 200 implants. I'd just create those missions, and put a 1 million reward tag on it.
    Last edited by Shareida; Sep 23rd, 2012 at 17:09:20. Reason: adds
    Neophyte Nerf"Shareida"Batted First Order
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Shareida View Post
    Let's say I would be too lazy to farm a set of ql 200 implants. I'd just create those missions, and put a 1 million reward tag on it.
    It's called GMI.
    Ghosts of Rimor
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    Goratinkr TL5 OT Hurler Factotum Engineer :: Bringin' the thunder since 2008.
    Scrubup 100 Bow Doctor :: Will she ever get out of perk reset? Stay tuned!
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    Unda TL7 MA Engineer :: Crying for more crit.
    Measles LVL1 Pistol Doctor :: It takes 2 stims to self the Expertises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-Quack View Post
    i might be a troll

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    To me personally, systems-driven means stuff like ACGs and auto-generated or programmatically generated content, also valid if it's a framework for user generated content. So anything rogue-like. Or minecraft is a good example. EVE is somewhat systems-driven in my opinion, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a "systems driven game" because there's not a whole lot dynamic going on that isn't of the player's doing.
    So they really do think that LEGO game is going to get them somewhere. lol

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Phixalicious View Post
    So they really do think that LEGO game is going to get them somewhere. lol
    Yes? Why wouldn't they? Most the modern Lego games have been very succesful.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

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