150 keeper

[Msakopax]

yo!

Got bored of my current alts and found out I got an extremely outdated lv 150 solitus keeper on my off-account, so I got a few questions about them!

How does 150 keeper do vs evade profs 1vs1? Is it possible to win vs a well twinked adv/fix/ma? I feel like you would miss miss miss, mainly, but dunno.. It also feels like Doc would be pretty much impossible to kill, anyone got experience of this?

If you have experience of lv 150 keeper - how fun was it for BS/duels?

cheers for sharing!


Edit: Is excalibur required to do well, or could you go with 225 wolf or so? Just noticed it costs more then I wanna spend on it ;P

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I have a 150 keeper with an all out crit setup with excal, (supplemented by CM/Ofab in obvious slots), and I've not tried PVP on him recently.

on my 170 keeper with 275 wolf, I have a very hard time with all out defensive doctors (ie. atrox, 2s HD with grail), ofc, they can't even come close to killing me either so you don't even need to try.

I've only had problems with advy. They got too much firepower at 170. At 150, I reckon ranged advy's will eat you, and melee advy's will be a reasonable fight. In wolf form they struggle to get the damage to kill you, but similarly, you will have a difficult time landing much on them. In sabre, you can perk em in limber easily, and they similarly will have the AR to perk you back. Probably either way, they are good fights, but at 170 advy's own keepers.


MA is a good fight, and can go both ways. a really solid setup MA with SS and SOS and who plays well with a 200ish flower of life will be able to kill you, unless you get lucky. BUT, Ma's similarly suffer from regularly landing normal hits. 3-4 normal hits will make an MA poo a brick. Add a well timed feast and MA's kaput.


Fixers are an interesting fight. At 150 you should be able to hold your own fairly well in a duel, but they will just be so annoying in BS/Mass pvp that you can't be bothered to chase them, in reality, you will NEVER, EVER make a kill on a fixer except in duels (1 on 1, anyway, if you're teamed and got a rooter/snares on him then ya, maybe).

In duels, fixer vs keeper is somewhat counterintuitive. The more deadly fixers usually have a a very basic setup with KMP and onehander and are focussing more on AS skill than overextending themselves with Full auto on hawk. The problem with Hawk setup's is: low min dmg on hawk, low AR on FA, and overall the setup becomes over-reliant on landing FA to make the kill (because you only get 1 FA every 50 seconds or so). What this means is that aside from specials (burst/AS) and perks they just can't produce any meaningful damage against you. Well timed wit (beginning) can put a serious damper on their capability to produce a kill. With a good setup, your AR should chew a hole in them with normal hits and fast attack that is not recoverable from. You don't need to land a perk to make a kill in a duel.

Crat's are a bit hit and miss (pardon the pun), but they really are: if you hit them, they die fast, if not, they may be able to wear you down. Crats with bow/rifle instead of pistols will pack a big mean AS, but offensively will only produce damage with pet (easily evadeable) and nukes (not enough to kill), so they may try to maintain range on you and wear you down with big AS's and nukes/pets. If the fight last longer than a minute, the crat will be out of evades and should be perkable - even if out of range with weap, remember that feast will be your best bet to land and has a longer range.

A good crat setup at 150 should have 2100-2200 static evades, so unlikely that wrath/cleave/transfix will ever land.


As for weapons, my 150 keeper has an excal and my 170 has a 275 wolf.

I've run some simulations testing damage vs AC's ranging from 4k to 9k and excal exceeds the damage on a 275 wolf in all brackets in PVM. With higher crit rating (12-30%) the excal pulls way ahead vs lower AC's. At higher AC's the damage is approximately the same regardless of crit chance.

Compared to a 225 wolf an Excal will be significantly stronger (regular damage will be comparable, but fast attack is easy to cap at 6s, vs best case scenario cap at about 10s on wolf, which means more specials/minute of better special AR, - fast attack AR>>brawl AR, and has a better damage template), but you lose Brawl on Excal which is significant because it's burst damage that comes at the moment you need it - plus, can stun. Regardless, the Excal will be stronger again vs the profs that you might need brawl against for other reasons: namely, inits. at 1/1 the Excal can get a lot more hits in even while UBT'd than wolf which will be slow as hell if init debuffed.

Excal you can get 1/1 at full def, wolf you get to about 1.2/1.5 at full def, with towers and OSB's. Wolf regulars can cap on some profs with the proper setup, Excal may, but is less likely too. Crits on Excal are huge, but they are also on a 275 wolf, compared to a 225 wolf, the excal should be significantly stronger.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the issue that will arise in PVP using excal is if you become crit dependent to make a kill, you're gunn ahave a bad time. All good PVPer's at 150 will have a reasonable amount of -crit which is doubly effective in PVP. If they see you wearing a excal, they might swap in a couple extra points for good measure. No crits on Excal=a crapping boring fight for you which becomes dependent on their AC rating... and that's a crappy place to be.

[Msakopax]

Ah right, thanks for the huge update!

I didn't even consider a crit setup, really. I was thinking of AR setup, like ofab + 233 commando or so, for the remaining parts. However I'm not really liking the idea of not being able to hit 1/1 at full def with the wolf - this will reduce viability alot from my opinion.

Would excal in OFAB / Commando setup + gocs obviously- still hit bad normals, as people would have too high ACs for my regulars?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

na. you hit like 1k normals with a 250ish excal. it works fine.

CC is hard to keep out of OE. AFAIK keeper can't even keep 225 out of oe.