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Thread: Hidden Zenith Taichi's: The Good and the Bad

  1. #1

    Hidden Zenith Taichi's: The Good and the Bad

    This weekend I procured a Robot Instruction Disk (Improve Slashing Weapons) and, with the very gracious help of Prologic who made a ql 198 Robot, I started converting a number of my Zeniths to the new Hidden variety.

    Here's what I found:
    1. With the original in the ql 60ish range the conversion added about 9 ql to the weapon so that a ql Zenith would become a ql 69 Hidden Zenith.
    2. The reqs on the weapon increased slightly BUT still ended up LESS than those of a similar ql normal Zenith. In other words the reqs on a ql 69 Hidden were LESS than the reqs on a normal ql 69 Zenith. With ONE exception which I'll address below.
    3. The damage ended up greater than a similar ql Zenith. The min increased by a nominal amount and the max by a very small amount. The crit increased most notably...by about 75%.
    4. The ONE exception to the reqs were the multi-melee req. THis OVER doubled from a similar ql Zenith. The increase was SO dramatic that it became very clear my level 55 MA would NOT be dual-wielding Hidden Zeniths.

    So what are the advantages?
    1. As a primary weapon the Hidden Zenith is substantially better than the standard IF you have decent crit bufs running (and Low Light Scope). Under the crit increase of SG only the added damage is only marginally better. For the same reqs though a Hidden Zenith is preferable.
    2. If you dual-wield Zeniths then there is a distinct advantage in using a Hidden in the right hand and a normal Zenith in the left hand. Once you have outgrown the normal Zenith you can breath new life into it by modifying it to the Hidden variety and re-equiping it in the right hand. Since Zeniths are relatively rare, and with the bug that makes over-equiping impossible, this modification gets you more life out of each weapon. Once you out grow the left hand normal Zenith you modify it and equip it in the right hand and find a new Zenith for the left hand.
    3. With high crit bufs the Hidden Zenith is substantially better than the normal weapon.

    Disadvantages:
    1. Cost. The robot instruction disks are fairly rare (seen exactly ONE in 4 days of playing) and the cost of a high ql robot is very high...over 1.5 million. There won't be many players capable of converting Zeniths for quite a long time. If the charges for conversion are high then there isn't really any advantage.
    2. Zeniths are rather weak weapons anyway and although the conversion helps some it is not comenserate with the dificulty in obtaining the conversion. I would have hoped that the result would have increase BOTH min and max damage more substantially.
    3. The added stat buf is negligable and not worth the trouble by itself.

    Since my MA, Baiyue, dual wields Zeniths and now has a supplier for conversions she'll continue to modify the ones she out-grows. A MA can't pass up even the slightest increase in damage at the present time.

    Funcom still has some work to do on these MA weapon upgrades to make them truley valuable.

    BTW, I did make a low level Piercing weapon Robot and converted a low level Golfe Prod. The result added Piercing req to the existing 1HE req of the weapon. Other effects were similar to what I described for the Zenith.

    Again, thanks to Prologic for the help in making these conversions.

    Baiyue, level 55 MA on RK1

  2. #2
    I also had some hidden zenith Taichis made this weekend.
    For me the biggest difference is the change in attack speed.

    Red Zenith Taichi: 1.6 attack/0.6 recharge
    Hidden Zenith Taichi: 1.0 attack/1.2 recharge

    The hidden taichi is now a suitable compliment to fist because I can get it to swing at maximum speed without spending a lot on melee init.

  3. #3

    I already had enough Melee Init BUT....

    With the MA weapons being changed to Phys Init in the next patch (we hope) then the speed diff between the normal Zenith and the Hidden will not be an issue. This is the reason I didn't even bother to mention the speed change.

    Originally posted by Nutbar03
    I also had some hidden zenith Taichis made this weekend.
    For me the biggest difference is the change in attack speed.

    Red Zenith Taichi: 1.6 attack/0.6 recharge
    Hidden Zenith Taichi: 1.0 attack/1.2 recharge

    The hidden taichi is now a suitable compliment to fist because I can get it to swing at maximum speed without spending a lot on melee init.

  4. #4
    Wow, good job on the work guys.

    Are the "components" to convert the Taichis used up in the conversion, or are they reusable? I'm a weaponsmithing n00b and I don't have the IP to play with it.

    Baiyue, is there any way I could get you to convert some weapons for me if the components are re-usable? I very willing to donate to your cause I'm on RK1 as Vistol if you feel up to helping out a fellow MA


    Dakirn
    aka Vistol

  5. #5
    With the MA weapons being changed to Phys Init in the next patch (we hope) then the speed diff between the normal Zenith and the Hidden will not be an issue. This is the reason I didn't even bother to mention the speed change.
    The 13.8 patch is a long ways away. The speed change is important to me because it allows me to use a weapon now without blowing IP on a skill (melee init) that will probably become useless.

  6. #6

    The intermediate components ARE used up BUT...

    the result of the process is a Mass Relocating Robot (Slashing Weapons) that is NOT used up. I don't know if there are any limits on the number of weapons it can convert but I doubt it. The robot I helped make (Prologic is the owner) is ONLY for slashing weapons like the Zenith. There are others for Piercing and Smashing weapons. Contact me in-game as Baiyue on RK1.

    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Wow, good job on the work guys.

    Are the "components" to convert the Taichis used up in the conversion, or are they reusable? I'm a weaponsmithing n00b and I don't have the IP to play with it.

    Baiyue, is there any way I could get you to convert some weapons for me if the components are re-usable? I very willing to donate to your cause I'm on RK1 as Vistol if you feel up to helping out a fellow MA


    Dakirn
    aka Vistol

  7. #7

    Hehe, yeah...wish I had known they were going to make the MA weapons...

    based on Phys Init BEFORE I spent IP on Melee Init.


    Originally posted by Nutbar03

    The 13.8 patch is a long ways away. The speed change is important to me because it allows me to use a weapon now without blowing IP on a skill (melee init) that will probably become useless.

  8. #8
    I'm just wondering now if Crescent Edges and Click stabbers are the more viable choices...

    In particular Crescent Edges.

  9. #9

    Maybe...but my MA Baiyue decided to use dual Zeniths for RP purposes...

    That they are the weaker of the MA weapons is annoying but will not be a deterance for her. She's stubborn.

    Originally posted by Canary
    I'm just wondering now if Crescent Edges and Click stabbers are the more viable choices...

    In particular Crescent Edges.

  10. #10
    just a question about the robot mechanism, so you are sying the robots do not deplete themselves? and just like the bio-converters you may as well get the best you can due to the expense?

  11. #11
    Regular burning cresents have low 1HE requirements compared to equal level Taichis, but they are useless because they have no brawl.
    Improved burning crescents have brawl but they also have increased 1HE requirement, in line with similar level taichis.

    Doing fire damage instead of melee is an interesting idea but consider the math:
    QL100 Burning Cresent - Star Three
    Damage 21-75 (48) Fire
    Reqs:
    martial arts 381
    1h edged 254

    Someone using this weapon will have about 300 attack rating and do about 1.5x the listed damage. That means the target only needs 1080 Fire AC to reduce the attack to minimum. It's still going to hit for minimum every time, so where is the advantage to doing fire instead of melee damage?

    An MA using a burning crescent and Blessed with
    Thunder has to break through 3 different layers of an absorb shield. That's alot of absorbed damage.

  12. #12
    Hey Baiyue, does that upgrade work for burning crescents too?

    I have a q97 and also a q97 taichi that I'm looking to upgrade I'll post the upgraded crescent here when we can get together to slap it together (if it works)

    It'll be interesting to see what other weapons they add for MAs when we get our "lovin"


    Vistol

  13. #13

    Don't know if they deplete over time...

    The one I had used on my Zeniths lasted for at least 10 conversions...I'd hope they were permanent since they cost over 1.5 million at higher ql.
    I think you should get the highest ql robot you can afford...and actualy use.

    Originally posted by Rypht
    just a question about the robot mechanism, so you are sying the robots do not deplete themselves? and just like the bio-converters you may as well get the best you can due to the expense?

  14. #14

    Talking

    I'm curious, what is the listing of parts you need to make one of those? I suppose I could buy my own parts and try to find someone who could "combine" them together?

    Sorry, my tradeskill knowledge comes from EQ and I haven't even touched multiple-item trade skill stuff in this game yet, nor will I probably ever

  15. #15
    Remember with Crescent Superstars that the crit damage ALSO increases by 75-100%...

    As for how to make them you need the following:
    1 Robot Instruction Disc (Improve XXXXX Weapons)
    - Where XXXXX is Slashing, Thrusting, or Crushing
    1 Mass Relocating Robot
    - By far the most expensive piece. A Q 100 is roughly 2 mill
    1 Symbol Library - Space
    1 Photon Particle Emitter

    The disc is used with the library, which is then used on the emitter, and the result is finally used on the robot.

    You need a pretty high level engineer with a decent grasp of nano-programming in order to do most of this.

  16. #16

    Just to clarify about brawl

    a weapon isn't useless just because it doesn't have brawl. As long as you dual weild with a second weapon that does have brawl, then you still can use the skill.

  17. #17

    Burning Cresent

    Ok, I had my q86 Burning Cresent - Star Four upgraded last night, along with some Taichis:


    Improved Burning Cresent - Superstar
    Quality Level: 98
    Requirements:
    Wield:
    Martial Artist
    Martial Arts from 469
    1h Edged from 313
    Brawling from 314
    Dimach from 107

    Dmg: 32-86(74)
    Speed:
    Attack: 1.00s
    Recharge: 1.50s
    Loc: RightHand LeftHand
    Rng: 2m
    Dual Wield: Mult. Melee 425
    AtkSkills: Martial Arts 67% 1h Edged 33%
    DefSkills: Evade-ClsC 100%
    Modifier:
    Cold AC 20

    DmgType: Fire AC


    Not too bad.

    Here's one of the Taichi swords:

    Hidden Zenith Taichi
    Quality Level: 159
    Requirements:
    Wield:
    Martial Arts from 846
    1h Edged from 564
    Brawling from 565
    Dimach from 190

    Dmg: 61-78(242)
    Speed:
    Attack: 1.00s
    Recharge: 1.20s
    Loc: RightHand LeftHand
    Rng: 3m
    Dual Wield: Mult. Melee 691
    AtkSkills: Martial Arts 67% 1h Edged 33%
    DefSkills: Evade-ClsC 100%
    Modifier:
    Evade-ClsC 10

    DmgType: Melee/ma AC

    Also a nice sword. It'll be a while before I can use it, though. The crits are ganna be helpful too.

    Thanks to Prologic for upgrading these for me

    Vistol

  18. #18
    Can the Parry Sticks be upgraded with the Crushing Weapons one?
    The dogs of war won't negotiate...

  19. #19
    The only upgradable MA weapons are Crecents, Taichis and Click Stabbers.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

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