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Thread: City Plot Prices and Upkeep

  1. #1

    City Plot Prices and Upkeep

    City plot prices and upkeep are listed as a known issue, but the upkeep prices appear consistent with the TL patch notes:

    ""The city plot is no longer the main defining factor in the city upkeep. The upkeep price of a city can be controlled by how many beneficial buildings you have placed.
    5x5 Buildings will add 5 000 000 to the city upkeep.
    10x10 Buildings will add 10 000 000 to the city upkeep.
    And so on..
    Some city buildings have been resized to match this new design.
    A small instanced city has been added. Entrance can be found in ICC. The base upkeep of this city is 5 000 000 credits. The price will be 300 000 000 credits.
    A Large instanced city has been added. Entrance can be found in ICC. The base upkeep of this city is 15 000 000 credits. The price will be 500 000 000 credits. ""

    I built the following buildings on a large city plot, they increased the rent/upkeep by the following amounts:
    5M credits per month each for your Sauna, Grid, Sat Uplink ... all 1x1 (5x5)
    10M credits per month each for Mining Operations, ECM ... all 2x2 (10x10)
    15M credits per month each for Tax Bldg and Notum Silo ... all 3x3 (15x15)
    20M credits per month for large HQ ... changed to a 4x4 (20x20)

    These buildings add 85M upkeep to the base upkeep of 15M for a total of 100M. This does not count the increases you would get if you had all the beneficial buildings ... the Org-leader Voucher only included the buildings above ... it did not include the swimming pool, guard house, etc. The city plot costs 500M ... which does not seem lower to me than a larger plot would cost under the original outdoor cities, but I don't have details as it has been too long to remember.

    Our Old outdoor city fit all the above except the tax bldg and notum silo, but we had room for the old market and landing pad. I can't remember anymore how much the plot cost us, it seems like it was more than 250M.

    Using the above rent calculations our rent for the same bldgs after 18.6 would be 70M. This compares to our current rent of just under 22M.

    So our rent for the exact same buildings will be more than three times what it is now? Some thing is very wrong here if the 18.6 Update Notes are correct.

    How can you think it is appropriate to increase our rent three-fold or more for the very same buildings we had before?

    Kinnik

  2. #2

    Funcom employee

    Only a few cities have as low as 22 mil/month upkeep and I don't think most of them could room a tax office. I can't modify everything to the lowest amount of upkeep possible. I have to aim towards an average. I won't deny that the price for a fully "furnished" city is at the high end, but this is for the good of the economy of the game. The organizations that can afford it should be able to have it. I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together..

    A city plot that could fit all buildings would not cost less than 100 mil/month in the outdoor cities. I have gone through them and the largest city plot had an upkeep above 150 mil/month and most decent sized city plots were all close to 100 mil/month or higher.

    I have increased the upkeep for the smaller cities, yes. But you can now decide how high upkeep you can afford to have as your organization expands. No one is forcing you to place all buildings at once. To have an operational city you would need HQ, Satellite Uplink and an ECM tower. That is 35m/month in a small city and 45m/month in a large city built to expand. This is a lower upkeep than the serenity island city.
    Last edited by Genele; Jan 19th, 2013 at 04:33:16.

  3. #3
    That is true, our outdoor city plot would not hold one of the new tax buildings, nor could it hold the re-sized 20x20 large HQ ... we fit the current large HQ just fine. We own 2C in Milky Way if you wanted to confirm our rent is only 22M. We are an old guild dating back to 2003, so we have the credits for the higher rents ... my concern is newer guilds that have to cover 45M rent just to be able to expand later.

    As far as the tax building goes, I doubt we will build it. I can't see paying an extra 15M in rent just to collect 1% of the 3% sales tax. Our members don't use the GMI enough to even cover the rent on just the new Tax bldg.

    Kinnik

    Edit: Please keep in mind that with the 18.6 large city furnished with all the beneficial buildings the monthly rent would be at least 125M if not closer to 150M ... the amount of your Highest priced outdoor city you mentioned above. That does not sound like an average cost was used. I did not check the totals yet as I did not buy the Missing beneficial buildings ... I only placed the ones in the voucher which was missing at least three or four buildings.
    If our city was the lowest and 150M was the rent for fully furnished outdoor cities, then an average would be less than 100M for a Fully furnished 18.6 large city.
    Last edited by Kinnikinnick; Jan 19th, 2013 at 05:04:31. Reason: 18.6 monthly rent is at high end of outdoor cities

  4. #4
    I also believe the costs are too high relative to the current city rents with all of the buffing buildings. I agree with Kinnik - not sure our org would build a building for the 1% tax back as most of our folks are not using the GMI either. And, don't forget, we are also losing the city as a jump point to certain playfields which made some plots more desirable.

    I would also would not include the 3 Craters cities in your calculations - their costs and monthly rent were always out of line (high) relative to the other RK areas. On RK2 - I am not sure that all of them have ever been built on (it always seemed there were empty plots out there).

    I find this comment a bit troubling to be honest - "I also won't deny that I have made my decisions to encourage you all to make larger organizations and play together.. " as there are several small orgs that are have been around for some time. There is also good reasons to have many orgs for each faction as well (towers come to mind), but using city rent to push that objective does trouble me. Its been my experience that "playing together" crosses orgs all the time (I am usually logged into 3 org chats) and really isn't the issue, its more the lack of players during all time zones.
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  5. #5
    the new city rents on test and soon to be live are way to high, my org is made up of only 6 players and we dont realy want to farm just to pay its rent. on live currantly our rent is only 36m a pop but ive build a city on test with all social building bar sauna ( due to error ) and all important building and it comes to 135.5m a month. that new rent is not aceptable that needs to be reduces by a LOT.ide be happy with 40-50m for a large but not 135,5m

    if your trying to make peeps leave AO why not make the rent 3X higher. some orgs dont want loads of players as it causes drama my org has 6 members cos we all share the same thing about ao we like our little group and dont realy want others in the org, we will help other none org member but not recrute as we like our private space, the new pricing will mean unless were to farm we will have to get more players. sorry but we dont want that.

    lower rents please
    Last edited by Rikaria; Jan 19th, 2013 at 05:58:38.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikaria View Post
    the new city rents on test and soon to be live are way to high, my org is made up of only 6 players and we dont realy want to farm just to pay its rent. on live currantly our rent is only 36m a pop but ive build a city on test with all social building bar sauna ( due to error ) and all important building and it comes to 135.5m a month. that new rent is not aceptable that needs to be reduces by a LOT.ide be happy with 40-50m for a large but not 135,5m

    if your trying to make peeps leave AO why not make the rent 3X higher. some orgs dont want loads of players as it causes drama my org has 6 members cos we all share the same thing about ao we like our little group and dont realy want others in the org, we will help other none org member but not recrute as we like our private space, the new pricing will mean unless were to farm we will have to get more players. sorry but we dont want that.

    lower rents please
    I will start by saying, please take no offense to my reply.

    The small city, is for farmers who likely have already hundreds of millions, if not billion to invest since they've been farming with the old instance cities or small RK cities. It is also for small orgs.

    The large city is meant for active orgs with a medium to large number of members which could easily over 100-150M a month for upkeep.

    Having a small 6 man org comes at a price, your funds are limited (I'm assuming all are low to mid level) so even considering a large plot would not be a reasonable expectation.

    A vet with a single TL7 (I speak from experience) could easily afford a whole year of upkeep for a large city with ALL buildings so most active orgs should have no issue with the change.

    Regarding your statement "some orgs dont want loads of players as it causes drama", well that depends on the leadership of that org. If you allow drama, it will happen, if you put your foot down and let members know that they will get kicked... the chances of drama drop drastically. You can have a mid size org with no drama without having to lose the fun or camaraderie factor.
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  7. #7
    I take offense to the idea that small cities are for farming orgs. We have a city. Our current upkeep is 22M/mo. I can easily shop-food 22M/mo of junk by myself to maintain our city. We are a small-ish org, but a "real" org nonetheless.

    We have no org tax. We do not want to burden our members with our city upkeep. Only a few of us care that we have a city, and we take care of the upkeep. In addition to "the basics" that Genele listed above, we also have a sauna, a gank house, grid pad, and whompas for convenience of travel and buffs. By adding the mining building alone to our new plot would more than double our existing rent.

    I want to emphasize that healthy organizations are what keep people engaged in AO. Raising the city upkeep does not correct the AO economy. It just forces out all the smaller orgs and will eventually hurt the player base. I hope that after the merge is completed, FC will reconsider allowing froob orgs once again, as well. Support the formation of orgs is beneficial. Some amount of "org abuse" for the sake of creating farm orgs must be tolerated so that we can have wide variety of orgs for players to choose from.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Genele View Post
    I have increased the upkeep for the smaller cities, yes. But you can now decide how high upkeep you can afford to have as your organization expands. No one is forcing you to place all buildings at once. To have an operational city you would need HQ, Satellite Uplink and an ECM tower. That is 35m/month in a small city and 45m/month in a large city built to expand. This is a lower upkeep than the serenity island city.
    I also agree with Kinnik ... these rents are too high. We were told the new large city would cost no more than the current Serenity Islands cities. My fully built Serenity Islands city has a rent of 46M ... the new large city costs 45M with the absolute minimum buildings. How is that "no more than" when it will exceed my current rent as soon as I add one 5x5 building beyond the minimum?

    Cine
    Last edited by Cinealta; Jan 19th, 2013 at 18:32:47.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lliers View Post
    I take offense to the idea that small cities are for farming orgs.
    I'll do one better. I take offense simply at small org equals farm org.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Jan 19th, 2013 at 09:23:42.
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  10. #10
    The rent is the same as what Haven is currently paying on Live.
    All is fine

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  11. #11
    Ok, let's do the math.

    100M for a city with all the best buildings for top benefits.

    100M divided by 30 days is about 3.3M per day. That can easily be put together by ONE player (even a froob one), so a small org should have NO PROBLEM covering the upkeep.

    Being small with no financial resources and expect to be able to own something which is valuable (upkeep cost) to maintain...

    A TL7 can easily make a billion in a week with not much effort, probably 2-3 Bill if the player puts all his effort into it.

    Maybe the upkeep should be lowered a bit, but not to the point that a lowbie froob can afford it. Cities are meant with orgs that have members with expansions, which can TOGETHER cover the upkeep.

    If you want to do get benefits and have the ability to do city raids which can make the org billions in a month (fairly easy by doing 1 raid a day)... you need to pay for the upkeep.
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  12. #12
    Another thought ... weren't we told the rent/upkeep would only go up for "beneficial" buildings? Neither the ECM or the Sat Uplink provide members with any "city benefits". Why do they add to the monthly rent/upkeep?

    Also, if a 20x20 large HQ adds 20M for 400 square units of space ... why is a 5x5 building that has 25 units of space 5M? Using cost per unit of space a 5x5 should only be a bit more than 1M or 1/16th the cost of the large HQ.

    Cine
    Last edited by Cinealta; Jan 19th, 2013 at 18:33:23.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Cities are meant with orgs that have members with expansions, which can TOGETHER cover the upkeep.
    No, I think you're missing the point. Cities aren't just for people to have a place to go and raid. The buffs from buildings can make or break even an endgame toon. People design their setups around access to them.

    Let's do some more math. Even say we use a small plot.

    So, plot = 5m
    Large HQ = 20m
    Mining Ops = 10m
    ECM = 10m
    GH = 5m
    Sauna = 5m
    Radar = 5m

    That right there is 60m. And most people still have a silo and/or pool. Another possible 40m. (I'm going to assume you'll need a large to fit both).

    Compared to what some people are paying now, that's pretty drastic.

    Plus the sting of going from a real plot (something that actually does have a value in and of itself) to instanced. Aaaargh.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Jan 19th, 2013 at 09:49:58.
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  14. #14
    Cities are luxury items...

    Still I want to know how will the tax office works and is the percentage from the tax or the whole price.

    20M is a cap per item sold, from this 1% is pennies, but from base item it does have rather nice effect,
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  15. #15
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  16. #16
    ao needs a home office to hand out welfare and council housing for the poor orgs.



    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    No, I think you're missing the point. Cities aren't just for people to have a place to go and raid. The buffs from buildings can make or break even an endgame toon. People design their setups around access to them.
    ...
    That right there is 60m. And most people still have a silo and/or pool. Another possible 40m. (I'm going to assume you'll need a large to fit both).

    Compared to what some people are paying now, that's pretty drastic.

    Plus the sting of going from a real plot (something that actually does have a value in and of itself) to instanced. Aaaargh.


    i'm sorry but an endgame org of endgame toons that designs toons around these buffs can afford the new prices.
    Last edited by Lazy; Jan 19th, 2013 at 12:09:00.

  17. #17
    just like Lliers we are not a farm org and most the time i am the one who puts the rent in for our currant city on live (35m). i dont play AO all the time like a lot of players do but i am on AOspeak all the time, thats only because the game is stagnating due to lack of new stuff to do. i like to know that i can login with a few org mates do a quick farm of say alba or some PB's and throw the money in the org bank and forget about it for 4-5 months.

    i play more then just AO i also play RF EvE and (ill ammit it) WoW but i dont see that my org should be screwed over and forced to have a small plot that TBH not even worth of calling it a city plot. yes the small looks nice but not practical for any kind of org bar a 1 man org who only farms bots. using the small nerfs your adds that the building give and in PVP them adds are important. i know the adds are minor but a +skill is a +skill and even more so when twinking.

    i know AO needs a credit sink but the city plot is not the place to have it.

    when the migration happens on live things might be diffrent as Cans Lupis RK2 is going to be joining via GRC (if cool with battle) Hell on Fire RK1 and maby some of HoF will join the org like some of CL are going to HoF.

    but as it currantly stands CL is a PVP/PVM org atm and the new rent it will meen more time farming just to fill the orgs bank.

    /unhappy face
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  18. #18
    3 db2 runs, as an org, = 120m + any lr sales.

    3 db runs a month, or even in an hour?

    This is outrageous.

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  19. #19
    ide rather farm for creds to build my twinks.

    im not saying what FC has done is a bad thing its not its nice to see something new in game its just the rent. what FC have done has impressed me, just lower the rent.

    the small plot cant hold a notum mine witch TBH is a lot more important needs to be able to be placed in the small. if for some reason my org said lets have the small to save costs that build would need to be a must.
    Last edited by Rikaria; Jan 19th, 2013 at 12:33:08.
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  20. #20
    Cities are meant to be expensive, what were you thinking? Renting a city irl would be cheap? Get over it guys!

    As a org, you work together, you earn money together. If you cannot keep it up, don't buy a city. Or else, buy a small city with just the required buildings to raid.

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