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Thread: How to choose a guild that's right for you

  1. #1

    How to choose a guild that's right for you

    How to choose a guild that's right for you
    by Emiko

    This might be one of those things, that have no real set in stone guidelines. It might be one of those topics, that have no borders, no boundaries, no determinable end, or closing... but that's what we're here today to find out, you and I.

    Im going to start this off with a little parable..
    • One morning as I wandered alone, travelling in knee high water, I turrned to the 237.000th heckler of the evening, and gave it the best ingot I had...

    To ask the question and find the solution that works for us.

    How to choose a guild that's right for you

    Now, I've been in and out of many orgs, clanside, and omniside. Ive been with AO since beta 2001, and seen guilds rise and fall like the tidepools. Some animals survive easily when the tide is out, others die.

    When you are looking for a guild on Rubi Ka, it's important to know why you are looking for a guild. Is it to get phats? To meet new people? To learn something new? The reasons are endless and without measure., therefore, I will speak from my own experience.

    I am a social person, I am drawn to people, I love finding out what makes someone else tick. I love to make people laugh, and watch them blossom, Ive always been that way, I think it has something to do with being the youngest of five, with a single mother, I had to find my way to shine. Anyways, segue.. slightly, but back on track...

    Finding out what your goals are for the guild are crucial. What do you expect from a guild?

    Me, I expect
    • Leadership
      Accessibility
      Organization
      Activity
      Morale
      Equality
      Personal Empowerment
      Objective Empowerment
      Safety
      RP and the Social Aspect *new*

    Without all of these qualities, a guild cannot sustain life for everyone who are originally drawn to the guild for whatever reasons. Mind you this is a list I came up with on the fly, Im sure I have left out alot, and topics may overlap sometimes.

    Finding out in which areas your guild shines can tell you exactly what type of guild you are in and where their true priorities lie.

    In a guild that lacks any of these major qualities, you will see people leave and often.

    Lets take them one by one and deconstruct them for to further understand them and discovery what they are about.
    • 1. Leadership:

      A guild must have good leadership. That doesnt mean it needs a lot of generals or leaders, but it has to have leaders who know how to lead. Leading is more of a walking beside thing, but knowing the way. A leader puts the needs of the org before the needs of the individual or self. A leader is compassionate, tolerant, and mindful. A good leader never tries to make a uninformed member feel less then, or bad, but seeeks to enlighten thru the teachings of their own experience, so that the member can learn and benefit the whole.

      2. Accessibility:

      What does it mean to be accesible? This means when you have a concern, a question, a need, you can come to your org leaders. They make themselves available to you. A great leader will come to you often, ask you how you are, say hello when you login, get you involved. Again expect them to be busy, so make some effort yourself here.

      3. Organization:

      A organized guild is easy to spot, they can accomplish anything, and do. With less resources and less time, more efficient in every regard.

      4. Active:

      A guild must be active. Teaming together, weeklly meetings help activity alot, a hangout, I find helps as well, to get a toe into the storyline, and a comfort zone for guildies to establish a comfort zone. The active guild has players on almost 24/7, and connects thru activities and guildchat, real issues as well as ingame situations.

      5. Morale:

      The morale of a guild is highly dependent upon the situations we take for granted. The times you think, this doesnt matter, is generally the thing that matters most. The little things, add up to the big things. Thats not to say make a big thing out of everything, but giving your fellow guildies the respect of an ear, council, teams, etc... can take your org to a higher level of development, of trust and efficiency.

      A guild with high morale, doesnt sell to each other, but gives freely to those who need. The high morale guildees seek within the org for council, for items, for teams, for ideas, for buffs, the house becomes strong and independent. Individual morale is what will be reflected back on your peers, so mindfully we treat others who are NOT in the guild, in the manner we wish to be treated. This means, we dont grief others, we dont worry about a few mobs when another team is nearby, we are generous, forthright, and never demanding. We are a reflection of our guild, and make a example every day. God this sounds cheesy.

      6. Equality:

      Equality is merging right along with Morale, equality in this sense is we seek to be treated with equality. In your guild.. do you feel you are being treated respectfully? If not, do you have the openness of good leaders to listen to your concerns without getting defensive?

      Equality and loot. This is a important topic and should not be kept out. Loot should never be granted for reasons of favoritism, but for those who have earned it. Loot should never goto someone based on level, although ability to use an item should always be priority over one who say cannot use it for many levels. Applicants should be allowed loot, if they put the effort and time in.

      7. Personal Empowerment:

      This is everything you are responsible for in the guild you joined. What do you bring to the table? Do you offer your time, when things arent as acitve as you want them to be. Do you offer your spare loot to your guildies so they can be empowered? Do you find out what your org needs, what your guildies needs are? Do you offer team spots to your org first? How do you make your guild a better place?
      "Believe it or not, but org leaders cant do everything. My point here is.. when you join an org, there is some give and take in the relationship. Individuals expect certain things from an org, but they should be willing to give back to the org in order for it to function properly."¹

      There is a dying force in AO these days. Whther it is due to disgrunted customers leaving, because they did not like the difference Shadowlands brought, or the out of control economy... whatever the reason.. manners and the social aspect of AO are at an all-time low.

      Guilds grow too large. No one hears anyone else. People slowly lose sight of what's important. AO becomes for some, a living Tommyknocker. We must destroy the new walls that have been built, that seperate us from each other. Remember manners and the social aspect.

      Things you can do

      1. meet one new person in your guild each week or day
      2. help one new person in your guild a week whether it be with a qust, or simply information of conversation


      8. Objective Empowerment:

      This is everything that is brought into the org from everyone other then yourself. Obviously your perception on these gifts, decide whether or not you are jazzed or not.. but we wont go into that here. How do the people in your org behave? How do they respond to you? Do they respond? When was the last time you teamed with your guildies.. have you ever felt like you werent in a guild at all, when you were? Do you feel empowered by what is going on your org?

      No org will ever be perfect, but we try to be as smooth running as possible. Generally guilds excell in 1 or 2 or 3 areas, but have work to do in others.. thats where you come in. Find ways to establish your goals, and if you cannot, or if the org cannot find room for them.. well, maybe its time to leave and find a new org that can.

      9. Safety:

      It is vital that you feel safe to communicate your concerns, to feel vulnerable at some point to be open, and honest wihtout worry of being chastized, /org kicked, etc... Safety is crucial, and is established by well organized and mature leadership.

      Safety also means, if you do something that breaks a rule, and you are new, you are given a chance, you are talked to ina respectful manner, not to made to feel bad, or inferior. Fear is no place to come from in regards to a behavior issue. Remember we all see things differently, there are no black and white issues, most are gradients of infinite variation and permuations. Be patient.

      10. RP and the Social Aspect:

      Roleplaying may or may not ever come into play in your organization. There appears to be quite the dichotomy of worlds in AO. That being the RP guilds tend to stay relatively low level, and the Power level guilds. Unfortunately for the social aspect, communication seems to die the further on the spectrum you get from RP guild status and closer to Power Level guild status.

      Personally I like a guild that communicates well together. But I want to establish progress in Shadowlands as well.. the blanace is tricky to say the least!


    I dont know how helpful this guide is to anyone, or if Im merely rambling as a means of deconstructing the last 3 years in a way that enlightens me about me, therebye helping you to see a few things about yourself, or perhaps Im just ranting, either way... I wish you luck, on Rubi ka, and off, and I hope your org and you are all they can be! Have fun and respect other people's fun

    Lovingly, Kupotek

    P.S. This treatise may be long it may be short, it's by no means complete, and could easily be said by someone far more eloquent in a fraction of the words. I bring it to you as a message of good will.

    Sincerely,

    little leet nibbling the wires,

    Emiko

    *References
    ¹ Fionnghal
    Last edited by Emiko; Jul 8th, 2004 at 13:03:46.

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  2. #2
    Very nice, Thank you
    Nymphete- 207 Engineer

    Natresse- Rerolled lvl 60 Adv.
    Socializer 93%
    Explorer 60%
    Achiever 40%
    Killer 6%
    Proud member of The Asylum
    pIcKlEs

  3. #3
    Very good write up. To add perspective from a leader's pont of view...

    One of my biggest complaint as a guild leader is when I hear someone complain about this or that then not take the initiative to find a solution or make things better. Belive me folks, most leaders don't want to do everything on their own. They WANT you to come up with good ideas and run events, raids, whatever. Another big complaint is someone that leaves a guild without any explanation. How the heck is anyone supposed to fix any potential problem if they don't even know about it?

    Discipline is one of the hardest jobs as, a leader is telling someone when they screwed up can be very hard for many people. Whether it's breaking a guild rule, doing something that makes the guild bad, or doing something that really bothers another member. For most leaders, I would think they try to operate in a fair manner and do what is right and just but, it is a hard thing to deal with. Usually, disciplining a member isn't personal, it's just keeping the peace. Deciding to kick a member can be escpecially difficult and few leaders would kick an active member on a whim.

    When analyizing what will happen to your baby, your guild, you are constantly involved in a balancing act. If I do choice #1, people A & B will end up leaving the guild. If you do choice #2 people C - F will be unhappy, if choice #3 person F will start trouble behind you back. It's always a challenge to balance personal goals, with guild work, officer development and growth, an competing needs of the guild members.

    The best leaders IMO are the ones with decent officers, who don't get overly emotional, and take the time to listen to their members, even if the leader won't always agree or do what they want.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  4. #4
    I love your post. I think it is very well written. I espescially like the part about Personal Enpowerment. I consider this important from an org member. Obviously there are things that an org can do for an individual.. as you have shown in your post. But organizations are made up of individuals, and if none of those indiviuals did anything.. then you would have a fairly poor org. Believe it or not, but org leaders cant do everything. My point here is.. when you join an org, there is some give and take in the relationship. Individuals expect certain things from an org, but they should be willing to give back to the org in order for it to function properly.

  5. #5
    Terrific feedback people. Vixentrox your post is very enlightening, thankyou. Fionnghal I added your words to the personal empowerment section, because it is articulate and I love it.



    -Emiko
    Last edited by Emiko; Jul 7th, 2004 at 20:10:15.

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  6. #6
    I updated the post with the RP and Social Aspect topic, as well as reformatted for easier reading the entire thing.

    -Emiko

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  7. #7
    This is a really terrific post. (and I'm not just saying that because you quoted me.. )

    I hope it helps alot of players out there.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Vixentrox
    Very good write up. To add perspective from a leader's pont of view...

    One of my biggest complaint as a guild leader is when I hear someone complain about this or that then not take the initiative to find a solution or make things better. Belive me folks, most leaders don't want to do everything on their own. They WANT you to come up with good ideas and run events, raids, whatever. Another big complaint is someone that leaves a guild without any explanation. How the heck is anyone supposed to fix any potential problem if they don't even know about it?
    As a leader (General) myself, I know exactly where you're coming from on issues of someone wanting something and expect someone else to do all of the work. I was recently left with a rather nasty message from an AR member who I told to work for what he wants - and it was all over loot.

    So far, that's the only person to ever have the distinction of calling me a 'F**king B***h'. That's what I get for suggesting someone try to do something on their own/wait until there is enough interest from others to do said raid.

    I also know how it goes on the raid front. I love running raids and keeping an eye on things, but I can't be expected to make a raid every single day. I don't know what people need/want outside of Mercs/Eel and let me tell you - Eel/Merc raids make me want to cry. They are BORING!

    And on people leaving with no explanation - it happens. I've given up caring about those people. If they don't have the guts to tell me or another leader what's going on, then they have no business in an organization. It's not a personal thing, it's just a waste of my time to pursue them. Those who leave with an explanation, even if it's just "I'm leaving to join another guild", fine. That's great. Call on me anytime you need help - I'll be there if I'm not busy.


    Discipline is one of the hardest jobs as, a leader is telling someone when they screwed up can be very hard for many people. Whether it's breaking a guild rule, doing something that makes the guild bad, or doing something that really bothers another member. For most leaders, I would think they try to operate in a fair manner and do what is right and just but, it is a hard thing to deal with. Usually, disciplining a member isn't personal, it's just keeping the peace. Deciding to kick a member can be escpecially difficult and few leaders would kick an active member on a whim.
    I'm not much of one for having trouble letting someone know when they've seriously screwed up. Biggest discipline issue that AR had was when someone was copy/pasting racist jokes into GC. I ignored it for a bit, but then I had to ask them to stop. It offended my own moral senses. They continued and others joined in. Finally 1 other general and the president asked that person to stop and they didn't. A few kicks and /org leaves later, everything was quiet.

    Most of them came back, then it started again. A little in-org battle ensued between two sides (me being on the minority side for some reason) of what's funny/not funny/gets annoying after a while. A few more people left.

    Now, anyone that knows me will tell you I'm a very VERY forgiving person. Sometimes to my own downfall at times. I guess it all finally came to an end when a few of the people that did hate me stayed gone. Hasn't been a spat of trouble since, and everyone gets along great.

    Moral? Vixen is right - discipline isn't personal, it's just ment to keep the peace, even at the cost of a few members.


    When analyizing what will happen to your baby, your guild, you are constantly involved in a balancing act. If I do choice #1, people A & B will end up leaving the guild. If you do choice #2 people C - F will be unhappy, if choice #3 person F will start trouble behind you back. It's always a challenge to balance personal goals, with guild work, officer development and growth, an competing needs of the guild members.
    What I wrote above perfectly reflects what you said.


    The best leaders IMO are the ones with decent officers, who don't get overly emotional, and take the time to listen to their members, even if the leader won't always agree or do what they want.
    All I can do here is completely agree. I think AR has some of the best leaders around, and I'm not saying that just to fluff AR. It's the truth.

    I've been in a good number of guilds in my time, and AR has kept me interested the longest. And they still keep me interested. That's one of the other keys to a good guild - one that keeps you interested.

    As always, to Emiko, great post and a good topic to cover.
    Last edited by Elu; Jul 8th, 2004 at 17:49:42.
    Rough "Elucidoc" Gropes - 216/12 Eternalist. President of Adrenaline Rush - Gear Inferno Dyna Killer
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    Become more smarterer!

  9. #9

    Again from a leader's point of view...

    Regarding Morale; Emiko is right, it's the little things. We have an explicit rule that people are to say "Hi" and "Bye" to each other if they see someone log on or about to log off, and it makes such a difference in people feeling included and part of the family. "Family" is an overused term for guilds, but it is the ideal you want to shoot for nonetheless, unless you run the org as a military or "phats" type org.

    Having competent, knowledgeable leaders and (as president) backing up their decisions is a huge key. Few things are as disruptive as bickering or contradicting directives among the leaders. Delegate roles to the officers and then step back and let them do it. No one person should be so indispensable that the org would fail without them (see next point).

    A good org should never rely too much on any one person. There are orgs out there that are essentially a "cult of personality" and they are dangerous; if that person burns out or decides 'heck with it, I'm joining Storm/Tranq/Legion/SF/(insert big org here)' then all of a sudden a ton of people are left in the lurch. Be sure it's not just the president (or one particular leader)doing all the work, when selecting an org that's right for you.

    Recruiting: Did you get a random tell inviting you to the org? If you did, and it's from noone you recognize, then I'd reccommend you stay away. Random invites mean widely varying expectations within the org from the people that accept the invites, and a high amount of turnover from "lookieloos" who come in and then jet when they find out they can't score their Azure Breastplate (or whatever other big score) just by saying yes to an org invite. You should have teamed with a member, saw their website, read their forum, or done some kind of research on the org you are about to join, before you accept an invitation.

    Ask tons of questions! A few good ones to start you off:
    1) What play styles does the org focus on? Social, Roleplay, Powerlevel, PVP, etc
    2) Where does the org meet socially?
    3) Are there any orgs in alliance with this org? (A danger sign is if the org recruiter responds that they have a huge number of allied orgs; alliances with more than about 10 orgs can be unwieldy at best)
    4) Does the org do Events/Raids/Missions/Teams together? Inevitably the answer will be yes, but pay attention to the reality of the situation once you are an applicant.
    5) What current levels group together? This will set your expectation for how many teams you can expect. Example from within my own org; we have a group of people that are 160+ that commonly group together, and a group of people at 110 or so, and another group at 40 or so. You can see that there are going to be gaps where you might need to get a pickup team, if you don't fall in these ranges. the ranges do change, as people make new alts and level their existing alts. Usually when levelling a group of alts will stick together to make it easier to team.

    Cliques: After you join an org, observe if everyone is included, or if at least an effort is made to do so. This is reinforcing Emiko's point about equality. It is inevitable that some people get along better than others. It is not inevitable that people must be excluded therefore. Cliques are to an extent inevitable, but if they are encouraged then it's probably not the org for you.
    BigGreen
    Advisor of Rising Phoenix
    www.risingphoenix.org

    current setup

  10. #10
    You guys write.. long blocks of text.. head hurts now

  11. #11
    Excellent posts guys.

    Lets hope it's a thread more people notice.
    Chak - Back in the fold, completely clueless.

    Rahmorak - I saw the events of 9/11 (or 11/9 for the rest of us ) unfold whilst playing AO, an experience shared across countries and nationalities. It was a moment where we saw the best (people all overthe world coming together in shock, grief and support) and the worst (e.g. cries of 'lets nuke <insert country>'), but it was a moment that would not have been possible but for the world of the internet and MMOs.
    In this medium we transcend boundaries, in here it matters not what the colour of your skin is, the religion to which you do or don't belong, whether you are 15 or 50, and whether or not you have a crippling disability. It is a nation of its own, where everyone starts out on equal terms and can forge friendships without superficial, cultural and nationlistic barriers.


  12. #12
    Having read through the posts here, I'd have to say...Well Written

    Let's hope, as Chak said, more people notice this tread.
    Seth "Pestillence" Walrus
    Proud member of
    ~ Society of Salvation ~
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    Who Shall Guard The Guardians?

  13. #13
    Thanks so much, to clarify some questions I have been asked in PM"s, yes I do hold my present guild AvR up to the light of my guideliness, but also realize these are a sort of personal moral code that I seek to adhere to, and practice every day. How can I expect them to be perfect if I am not? Right?

    As it stands AvR does qualify as the exemplary guild I am referring to in my guideliness. Organized, Honest, Patient, Generous, did I say patient? Okay good, that's a big one. Also I never feel taolked down, or pushed around, or that even when I was applicant I didnt feel inferior.

    If you raid, you can get loot, there's no if you're an applicant you can't get loot heirarchy of tests. I feel respected, and treated fairly, given chances, and it brings us together.... those who aren't meant to stay eventually go their own way no matter what kind of loving, environment you give them -- but here we can only do that.

    The generals are fair, heck you wouldnt even know theyre generals cos theyre so down to earth. But when things need done, they can do it! I'd follow my leaders any where they led, because I respect them. That's always nice

    It's a family, a friendship, and community, and we all do our best to live up to our own set of guidelines, these are just mine

    See you on Rubi ka
    Last edited by Emiko; Sep 14th, 2004 at 13:55:27.

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  14. #14
    Very nice thread. I've linked to this one from the thread I started in the newbie forum.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Keldros
    Very nice thread. I've linked to this one from the thread I started in the newbie forum.

    Wow, thanks Keldros I am honoured

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  16. #16
    Bump -.-
    Nymphete- 207 Engineer

    Natresse- Rerolled lvl 60 Adv.
    Socializer 93%
    Explorer 60%
    Achiever 40%
    Killer 6%
    Proud member of The Asylum
    pIcKlEs

  17. #17
    This is a good thread. Sticky anyone? Haha erm well, yeah my experiences with "orgs" has been really screwed up yet my views on them much as what's listed above. Pfft I don't think any org will take me now. I've been in so many that were said to be such but they weren't and worst one yet was the one where the pres wanted to cyber with me all the time. wth... One day... *dreams*

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Destian
    This is a good thread. Sticky anyone? Haha erm well, yeah my experiences with "orgs" has been really screwed up yet my views on them much as what's listed above. Pfft I don't think any org will take me now. I've been in so many that were said to be such but they weren't and worst one yet was the one where the pres wanted to cyber with me all the time. wth... One day... *dreams*
    Well, you can check us out over at http://www.avatarsreloaded.com/forums/
    Send a tell to Marxgorm if you are interested! We are definitely not that kind of org you described

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

  19. #19
    Destian, maybe try some well established orgs who are known and not the ones who do ninja recruiting or OOC recruiting posts? just a suggestion. Not saying new orgs are bad but they are just like businesses - many start, a couple survive.

    edit: btw, good post Viva. Touched on many sensetive subjects and I would like to add one thing. People just ask most of the time, what an org can do for me? Many things. Very few ask: What can I do for the org? Will I be an asset to the org? Seen many people just rip off the org for benefits, whatever they might be, and then just leave. As I mentioned above, orgs like businesses, with no contribution from their members, they die off.
    Last edited by Kreken; Sep 15th, 2004 at 19:24:33.

  20. #20
    Avatars Reloaded is a very well founded org hon, and our lowbie guild Flaxen Raiders holds the same unmistakable credibility I kid ye not

    My Home on the Web KittySafe Ntwrk
    Quote of the Month: "The day I feel sorry for someone who gets paid for browsing an internet forum is the day I peel off all my skin, make a canoe and set sail for Saturn." Alienchild

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