AI release causes Clan Civil War?

[Fixerspy]

Inserting the boiled down Point I'm Trying to Make at the top here... for all you perception and literate challenged uber noobs that instantly wip out the Bash em Club.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Sizeable, organized factions... some with strict rules, some with none at all... Most have handful or more of Supertweaks that have ZERO sportsman like conduct outside of a pvp zone and will screw any fellow clansman over if it means they get the cash, loot, and prizes. Fortunately they are a small group... but they are growing. Currently many of the 201+ crowd is making a mad dash for the 220 in order to tweak up for the AI Release. With the release... the guilds with the most 220+ tweaks will not only maintain the power base they now have... they have the BEST chance of grabbing the best spots to build cities. Hence... the guild with the best land and the best city is going to be comfortable for a really really long time to come. Due to the sheer numbers of active players these guilds have... mains and alts and be leveled extremely fast and tweaked easily. Most of these guys (er... guess I should stick my hand up here and admit to this one, hee) spend tons of time online every day. Almost all play at least 20 hours a week, but for most try 40 to 60 hours a week or more! Every spare waking moment Baby! Yeah!


2. Small guilds and ungielded players... they love thier freedom... and just want to be left alone to enjoy the game with a few friends. Yeah... it would be nice to level fast and be tweaked... but it aint happening any time soon... some of these dudes only play a few or several hours a week. And since they are not in one of the Uber guilds... they spend alot time in game looking for help just to have fun. (Side bar: if you are familar with my other recent rants... please give these guys a break... they need to enjoy the game too... so have a little decency and don't OD/steal kill these guys for the hell of it.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The theme to this rant is that too many (and growing) of the high level players are turning into SuperTweakJerks.

Fact: Although you, I, and a large membership of the Uber guilds spend a lot of time online... we are the MINORITY of players in the game. And we are having a SERIOUS impact on the quality of the game play for ALL players. And I'm not just talking about the xp bonus and contract benefits from the towers.

Problem: the F. U. attitude by a growing number of uber clan players screwing the little clan guys out of xp, cash, and prizes is having a Negative impact on the game. I spend a lot of my time online trying to help the Small guilds / unguilded clan because I CAN SOLO just about anywhere, and most times can screw up some Tweaks teams attempt to steal boss mobs, whereas the other guys don't stand a chance on their own against the supertweaks.

As for the guys that screwed with me yesterday on spec 4... it is down right rude to try to screw someone out of spec 4 loot when I just GAVE them a spec 4 several mins before. God help anyone trying to have fun in the game if they can't hold their own with the jerks.

My attitude: If my fellow high level players can't let the small guild / unguilded do a quest or kill a mob without some tweak spoiling it for them, then screw it.. A Major Change is needed in the Game... and if that Means a shift in the power base, so be it.

*Bashes Shadowgod repeatly over the head with her pair of sunglasses...



==============================================
start of new thread...

this is a repost of a rant i put in Clan Leaders and Tower Wars thread...

AI release causes Clan Civil War?
Several post in this thread briefly mention that there are clanners who would love to see the towers of the largest clans burn... Sadly, this is true. There are times I am numbered amongst those whom harbour these feelings.

Tower bases are relatively easy to defend, compared to the effort required to gain new land. As a result, the largest guilds on both sides have become quite comfortable and, some might say, egotistical, with the tweaked abilities they gain from org contracts and the easily available help for leveling toons.

So what does this have to do with the price of tea in china? Ever notice that the number of unguilded players / players in small guilds VASTLY outnumbers the Clan zerg guilds combined?

Yeah? So? What's the point?

Has anyone noticed how increasingly common clan on clan grieviances have become? Has anyone noticed that a growing number of high lvl players (ats too) from the zerg guilds train, steal kill, harrass, taunt, ninja loot, etc etc etc other clan players that are lower level or from smaller guilds?

Yes, there is an extreme amount of competition amongst and between players to complete quest, find items, gain levels, etc...

But has anyone noticed that there is less adherance to 'player rules'? i.e. for example: not stealing kills for quest items / no drop items / rare valuable items if someone is already engaging a target. Now days a growing number of clanners from the zerg guilds are steal killing from other clanners simply because THEY CAN DO IT. If they can outdamage another clan team or clan person soloing, they do.

*COUGH* Personally I've had at least a dozen run ins with members of Immortal Ascension in guilded teams pulling this type of crap this past week. Hmm... I wonder why I start kiting 6 inferno mobs at a time like a Insane Fixer whenever they invade an area that I'm camping. Fire with Fire. If they, as a team, want to steal kill from me, I'm not going to make it easy.

Wasn't the 'old' player rule on damage that we try to outdamage OMNI on the boss raids and such? Not deliberately screwing less fortunate, less tweeked clans members out of xp, sk, cash, loot, prizes?

I can remember 'Back In the Day' when several hundred of us at a time would patiently wait several hours, even several days, on a waiting list to get on a team for the static borg dungeons out at Sentinels for some good xp and a chance at good loot drops like SummonGridArmor. And I remember only one occasion when people from *cough* Nemisis 'reformed' a team and took over one of the static dungeons so as to not have to wait in line... that rude behavior resulted in several arks responding immediately onsite to petitions, the dungeon being temorarily SHUT DOWN to restore order, and numerous guild leader chats, ooc hollers, and pm tells to MAKE everyone behave. Period. And they did. Period.

That level of 'sportsman' like conduct and enforcement of player rules seems to be almost none existant now. *Please note I said Almost. * Many of you, being from the dozen or so largest guilds, may not realize it from your privledged perspective, but it has become common practice for the strongest amongst our ranks to give the lesser guilds, the unguilded players, or weaker players the short end of the stick.

It is funny how entertainment mirrors Real Life. Beware of Power.

We all know what the Real Deal is. The Zerg guilds have the power. The forgotten clans don't. As a result the game is much more difficult to play for them. And there is nothing the forgotten clans can do about it. Sure... they get pissed off. Sure some of them, even myself, at times want to destroy the zerg towers just for the hell of it simply because a zerg clanner screwed someone over. But we all know the zerg towers are untouchable. And even if some of the forgotten guilds banded together to retaliate, the zerg leaders would ban together under the 'clan don't attack clan' motto and then simply destroy the pitiful lvl 50, 20, 15 level towers that the forgotten guilds have.

Do any of you realize how little is left to the forgotten clans? They only have scraps, left overs, hand me downs for tower land. What is really pathetic is that several of the dozen or so largest guilds have alt guilds / training guilds for their lower lvl toons... and those guilds also control the best clan land available in that guilds range.

What it boils down to is that about a dozen or so clan leaders and a handful of their generals (close friends) CONTROL not only a vast majority of the clan land, but also the quality and enjoyment of the game for thousands of people each day when they log on. Leaders... keep that in mind next time someone OUTSIDE your guild complains to you about one of your guildies giving them the raw deal.

Want to know why more 'fresh' recruits don't apply to join your guilds? Ask a new player that recently learned he got taken advantage of when selling a rare item, because he didn't know the eco-dynamics of the game. All he is gonna remember is it was some guy from 'That Guild'.

Want to know why some people WANT to stay in a small guilds? How many times have their been factional disputes, org implosions, mass exoduses to form a new guild because someone was being a jerk.

Want to know why more of the 'forgotten' clans don't join in for the Big tower wars? Ask some of the many whom have been screwed over by members of the zergs simply because they were weaker. Their response? Screw You. I'm not helping.

I've been in the game about 2 1/2 years now. I have alts in several of the zerg guilds as well as in small and medium guilds. My Main has roamed the wastelands and has joined a dozen or so guilds of all sizes this past year making new friends, visiting new places. And I can tell you this... There is a growing resentment towards the largest guilds. And a growing desire to see them burn.

I've made friends with many small guilds. No they do not have 200+ members on roll call with 25-50 active members logging daily. But they do have 5 - 12 members on roll call with 5 - 12 active members logging in daily. Do you realize what this means?
It means almost 100% daily active membership. No dead names on the guild list. Think about that for a second... let it sink in...
It means if they decided to pvp... they can instantly have 1 or 2 full teams jump into a pvp fight.

In my chats with some of my small guild leader friends, I'm noticing some other things too... a trend to organize. With the small guilds there is little or none of the problems that develope in large guilds from guild implosions. They work better together, have closer friendships, tighter loyalties.

With the advancement of chatbots/guildbots it has also become easier for small guilds to work together. Can you imagine a dozen small guilds using a 'raidnet' like bot to coordinate a battle? I've seen one of these small guild bots in action on a raid. Puts larger guild battles to shame... less chatter, less spam, easier to read... better communication between a smaller number of people means they spend less time 'chatting' during a raid and more time fighting.

Is any of this sinking in? There are a number of small guilds that are actively planning, plotting, scheming not to just over throw omni lands, but to over throw the zerg lands as well. It is just a matter of getting the inter/intra guild bots to work correctly and smoothly before they start recruiting other small guilds and start training on the battle plans.

I've been to several meetings and planned events of a few of these guilds. Here is the low down on how they operate:

*Each day the leader or one of the generals pulls a guildbuddy report on every guild that controls land. They have a bot that uses the report and it checks every name on the list every 30 mins around the clock. You might not be sure how many members in your guild are 'dead roll call' toons... but they are trying to figure it out. And they dump this info into a database to figure out WHO are your most active members and what time of day / week / month your guild is least active.

*They only pvp against fellow guild members. You might see em around, but I bet you don't give em a second thought. If they 'accidently' get a freshman title above their heads, they are under orders to lose the title. No... they don't have the resources a zerg guild has to equip and tweak a toon... but practice makes perfect. And they are working on it.

*Before each tower battle they fight in they disband the guild or members headed to battle. Sometimes they will change the org name so it looks like a new baby guild on the block.

*Leaders create low lvl toons, transfer leadership of guild to baby toon, and then use it as a chatbot/raidbot to monitor and log various chat channels and to coordiante raids / battles while they play another toon.

Etc. etc. etc.

If you think this is silly or extreme, HA! Look at yourselves in the mirror. If some of you try to deny that you have various automated tools / bots / etc to do the same... Your full of it. Ha! When this toon was still leading Harbingers of the Void (former midsized guild) all of you were ever so helpful to teach the lessor clan leaders how to use this stuff, lol.

Now... what I'm waiting to see is IF these several small guilds are going to merge with the zergs sometime around the release of AI... or if they are going to ban together and knock the zerg guilds on their collective butts. I guess it all boils down to raw numbers... they could wipe out the all of the zergs bases in a few days... but they don't have the raw numbers of high level players to sustain and stave off the retaking of the bases... unless they merge to form a new unheard of guild.

Will the Release of AI cause a clan civil war? Hmm... time will tell. Yesterday... after members of Immortal Ascension pissed me off with some rude behavior, I left Ascension... Currently I am once again bouncing between the smaller guilds... waiting to see what will happen. If there is a civil war, and the small guilds do band together for a power grab... I free to do whatever and go whereever the winds blow...

Clan leaders! Maybe now is the time to get your troops in line and start enforcing player rules? A little kindness could go a long way... and showing a little respect to the small guilds can enhance everyones enjoyment of the game and encourage them to merge with you. Otherwise I'm sure that by the end of the year all the 250+ clan bases will have new banners flying over them.


__________________
fixerspy

"Got Grid?"

[Slipster101]

Click Me.

[Butterfli]

Perhaps it will lead to clan civil war perhaps it will not.

As I recall you left Ascension because we were enforcing the 'player rules'.

1) You don't attack an entire clan because a few people pissed you off you talk to their generals and if you get no help there you move to their president.

2) You don't put the hard work of your fellow org mates at risk because you meet a few jerks from another clan org.

3) If clans starting attacking clan towers why they hell would we need Omni.

4) You know that Ascension does enforce 'player ediqutte' when we are told of Infractions to them. Yes enforcing rules (which btw are also posted in this forum) does not Include the whole org (at least for Ascension) but Creation of rules does. And yes I do (and if the generals are on we) have a chat with the 'offender' and 'accuser'. I personally log discussion with all involved as well, for future reference(1- to see if there are any trends or if was a just a bad day, and 2- so it can be referred to if needed).

Butterfli
President Of Ascension

[Gorehound]

Cutting out pieces of original post since I want to have room to write a lil at the end of this novel.

Originally posted by fixerspy
[B]this is a repost of a rant i put in Clan Leaders and Tower Wars thread...

Has anyone noticed how increasingly common clan on clan grieviances have become? Has anyone noticed that a growing number of high lvl players (ats too) from the zerg guilds train, steal kill, harrass, taunt, ninja loot, etc etc etc other clan players that are lower level or from smaller guilds?

There is no kill stealing in AO. Dmg rules apply to loot. Most people learn to accept this by the time they are level 150. If you can't OD someone alone, call in your friends. If you don't have friends, make some.

Yes, there is an extreme amount of competition amongst and between players to complete quest, find items, gain levels, etc...

But has anyone noticed that there is less adherance to 'player rules'? i.e. for example: not stealing kills for quest items / no drop items / rare valuable items if someone is already engaging a target. Now days a growing number of clanners from the zerg guilds are steal killing from other clanners simply because THEY CAN DO IT. If they can outdamage another clan team or clan person soloing, they do.

This isn't just people from large orgs. This isn't just people from small orgs. Its everyone! The game has changed. Am I going to OD someone to take there camp if I have something to do? Of course. If someone comes up and OD's me at that same camp, you pack it up and call it a day, or get a team there and OD them. Its not a matter of...OMFG Genesis/Nemesis/IA/HUGE/Dark Front/A2...etc, etc, etc. is here, they are going to kill steal me.

*COUGH* Personally I've had at least a dozen run ins with members of Immortal Ascension in guilded teams pulling this type of crap this past week. Hmm... I wonder why I start kiting 6 inferno mobs at a time like a Insane Fixer whenever they invade an area that I'm camping. Fire with Fire. If they, as a team, want to steal kill from me, I'm not going to make it easy.

KSing a mob from you or "taking" a camp (since there are no "camps" in AO) from you isn't harassment/griefing/yadayada....if it was Arks would deal with it. Intentionally training or causing death/loss of xp repeatedly since you can't OD someone IS.

Wasn't the 'old' player rule on damage that we try to outdamage OMNI on the boss raids and such? Not deliberately screwing less fortunate, less tweeked clans members out of xp, sk, cash, loot, prizes?

I'd much rather OD an Omni than a Clanner...but when it comes down to it, unless you are a friend, an orgmate, or someone who shows are small amount of common courtesy...oh well. I don't mine sharing a camp, I don't mind teaming and rolling...but don't expect me to just walk away because its YOUR mob. How does your NEED translate into greater than mine? Prime example - Went out to camp a Mortiig Beamer of Torment the other day from the Mortiigs in Ely...when I arrived some 150ish Omni Engi was there. I asked him if he had one that I could purchase. He told me 35m. I laughed and offered him 10m. He said no and then told me to go look somewhere else and proceeded to be rude. After that I wiped the entire encampment of Mortiigs off the face of the earth right in front of him...while he was killing it or not. Things like that will make me OD anyone...but a friendly "hey, can we share spawn?" from a clanner often results in a positive response (unless of course I'm having a bad day or its an Omni)

I can remember 'Back In the Day' when several hundred of us at a time would patiently wait several hours, even several days, on a waiting list to get on a team for the static borg dungeons out at Sentinels for some good xp and a chance at good loot drops like SummonGridArmor. And I remember only one occasion when people from *cough* Nemisis 'reformed' a team and took over one of the static dungeons so as to not have to wait in line... that rude behavior resulted in several arks responding immediately onsite to petitions, the dungeon being temorarily SHUT DOWN to restore order, and numerous guild leader chats, ooc hollers, and pm tells to MAKE everyone behave. Period. And they did. Period.

Exaggerate much? Nemisis at BigD and LilD in Mort? LOL yeah. The org wasn't even around when those dungeons where the rage to level at. And "days" on a list...wtfever, THE most I ever waited was 2 hours.

It is funny how entertainment mirrors Real Life. Beware of Power.

We all know what the Real Deal is. The Zerg guilds have the power. The forgotten clans don't. As a result the game is much more difficult to play for them. And there is nothing the forgotten clans can do about it. Sure... they get pissed off. Sure some of them, even myself, at times want to destroy the zerg towers just for the hell of it simply because a zerg clanner screwed someone over. But we all know the zerg towers are untouchable. And even if some of the forgotten guilds banded together to retaliate, the zerg leaders would ban together under the 'clan don't attack clan' motto and then simply destroy the pitiful lvl 50, 20, 15 level towers that the forgotten guilds have.

More of the angry, I got KS'd anger here, I'm mad so I'm going to blow up your towers....continuing on.

Do any of you realize how little is left to the forgotten clans? They only have scraps, left overs, hand me downs for tower land. What is really pathetic is that several of the dozen or so largest guilds have alt guilds / training guilds for their lower lvl toons... and those guilds also control the best clan land available in that guilds range.

So, what your saying is...the large orgs should give up the good land to smaller org who more then likely can't defend it...so when Omnis come to take it over, the large org once again has to come back and retake a land it could have held if it was in control of it?

Want to know why more 'fresh' recruits don't apply to join your guilds? Ask a new player that recently learned he got taken advantage of when selling a rare item, because he didn't know the eco-dynamics of the game. All he is gonna remember is it was some guy from 'That Guild'.

A whole guild cannot be 1 person, well unless you're an org of 1...but tbh, sure...there are jerks everywhere. The whole org isn't the jerk. First impressions suck, but only fools judge an entire org based on one member.

Want to know why more of the 'forgotten' clans don't join in for the Big tower wars? Ask some of the many whom have been screwed over by members of the zergs simply because they were weaker. Their response? Screw You. I'm not helping.

I don't help on any towers wars other then my own because frankly...its not my tower and I don't care if you lose your base.

I've been in the game about 2 1/2 years now. I have alts in several of the zerg guilds as well as in small and medium guilds. My Main has roamed the wastelands and has joined a dozen or so guilds of all sizes this past year making new friends, visiting new places. And I can tell you this... There is a growing resentment towards the largest guilds. And a growing desire to see them burn.

Why do you have alts in the zerg orgs if you hate them so much? Hypocritical much?

Clan leaders! Maybe now is the time to get your troops in line and start enforcing player rules? A little kindness could go a long way... and showing a little respect to the small guilds can enhance everyones enjoyment of the game and encourage them to merge with you. Otherwise I'm sure that by the end of the year all the 250+ clan bases will have new banners flying over them.

The thing that amused me most here is you left Ascension today cuz you got griefed by some IA members and wanted to blow up their towers and found out that clan vs clan tower fights are not permitted in Ascension. But you also admitted that you never talked to the president of IA or had any of Ascension's officers or Butterfli try to contact IA's President.

Another point of humor is you got all bent out of shape earlier in the day when a member of Ascension got kicked from the org for training an Omni Smug raid in direct defiance of org rules. You said that was "too harsh". Contradicting? First you babble about how people should be nicer to each other and org leaders should stick to thier guns and enforce rules...and then you turn around and complain to someone that they are being too harsh in enforcing them. One way or the other bro...can't have both. You leave an org with rules and regulations to prevent its members from greifing, and then come here and post a rant or 2 about "RAWR, I will blow up all your towers" which just creates more disension and chaos....and in the end leads to more hard feelings and more griefing.

Personally I'm more worried about Omni taking over the bases....not some disgruntled clanners who are butt hurt over being KS'd.

- edit : I honestly feel the main reason the "zerg orgs" as you put it, get bad reps is because of posts like this. Everyone screams and yells about the big orgs being jerks or whatever because they have what you want or take what you "need". I used to think a lot of "big" org were all jerks cuz I listened to what other people told me. (ie - Dark Front, Adrastus 2, Genesis, Nemesis, IA, Alpha Omega...etc, etc.) What I came to realize after teaming and actually getting to KNOW these people on a personal level instead of on a "org level" is that 90% of them are good people. The 10% who suck can be found in guilds the game over. Its not just the uber orgs, its the small ones, the large ones, and the medium ones. But ranting and raving just spreads a bad rep for a whole org when 90% of them aren't jerks/kser's/griefers.


(These comment do in no way reflect upon the opinions, ideas, rules or regulations of any org that any of my characters are a part of. These are my personal feelings, as a person, not a player.)

[Fixerspy]

Butterfli... I said the people that pissed me off where from IMMORTAL ASCENSION... not ascension... two different guilds.

And I chose to leave Ascension so that I could take any actions towards IMMORTAL ASCENSION without dire consequences towards you, ascension, or ascensions towers.

Unfortuanately in the time I was there I didn't get a chance to become close friends with many of you... partially because of the guild implosion resulting in the mass exodus a few weeks ago... and partially because I rarely had a chance to team with the upper level players in the guild. However, I did get a chance to meet some really nice veteran players and some of the other new players that joined.

As for the rules, I do believe in following the code of the player rules... but not to the extreme that it is one sided where it punishes clan but does nothing to omni. But that is neither here nor there as it is merely the difference how the chain of command works. Some sit at a round table. Some sit at a rectagle one. I prefer the round one myself... but as I understand your concerns of protecting Ascensions reputation (and protecting its towers in doing so) I have no qualms with your enforcement of Ascensions rules.

In fact, I was happy when, during the clan guild leader chat (I was logged in as Battlechat) yesterday, when I voiced that something should be done about clan on clan griefing, you sternly stated to all the other guild leaders that you would kick anyone griefing anyone else for any reason.

My viewpoint was that clan could would and should attack the towers of other clans when their members griefed other clan members. As in the case that Members of Immortal Ascension griefed myself and several other persons of several clan guilds yesterday. However, when I voiced this viewpoint, The response of almost every leader there was 'do that and you will black listed'.

You agreed with the other clan leaders. Do not attack clan towers for any reason. However, there was one important distinction between yourself as leader of a clan, and the other leaders present in guild chat. You WOULD discipline your membership and maintain a code. None of the others present in guild leader chat offered that standard. Hence the reason for this rant... too many clansmen screwing other clansmen over without consequence.

I seem to recall that yesterday you did in fact kick some other member of Ascension for griefing an omni raiding team. Something about they didn't let him finish his Smug quest so he tried to kill them.

We did discuss in Ascension guild chat yesterday my concerns about your telling us 'after the fact' that you and the generals had kicked him. And I suggested that maybe in the future the events be explained to the guild members at an adhoc meeting, and then PUBLICALLY BANISH the person. But, again, that is just a difference in style.

Personally, I think kicking a guildie in that situation was a bit severe. Probation, a fine, reduced in rank, etc, etc, etc. But... considering they did wrong him first, I wouldn't have gone as far as banishment. But I do understand your concern to protect the reputation of Ascension, and in so doing protect your towers, and hopefully, the quality of the game.

However, did the omni offer anything in return for his banishment? Have the omni offered a 15 minute window for clansmen to complete their quest, as to token measure to keep the peace? Hmmm.

So... from the point of view of the person that you kicked (what was his name? I or one of the other small guild leaders might want to recruit him!) he is getting screwed from both sides. He can't complete his quest even though he ASKED the omni to wait a few minutes before killing the NPC. If he complains to ARK... nothing can be done. And his guild has its hands tied with a (too strict?) adherance to the rules. So the dude loses his cool and tries to kill a few omni after they screwed up his attempt to finish a quest... which might cause the omni to attack Ascension... which could lead to the lose of another tower site.

Before the guild implosion a few weeks ago Ascension had 4 tower sites. Afterwards it managed to stave off attacks and keep 3. Yesterday someone is kicked to protect the guilds reputation, keep the peace, and protect the towers. I'm sure you can see why some concerns were expressed. Maybe a little flexibility was called for. But again... it is a difference in style.

So... when members of one of the top 5 guilds griefed me yesterday, rather than act rashly, I decided on a prudent course of action.

I determined that I WOULD seek venagence against the growing number of Jerks in certain guilds in the game that care for nothing more than reaching 220 and tweaking up BEFORE the Release of Alien Invasions. The constant 'screw you buddy' unsportsmanlike behavior is getting out of control, and if the Big Guild leaders would not / could not control there troops (as you have, albiet harshly at times) then I would do everything I could to assist the smaller guilds rise to power.

Now... as for my leaving Ascension... no one made me. No one forced me out. There was no 'enforcement' of the rules. I PM'd one of the generals of Ascension about my being griefed by Immortal Ascension, and got no response. Maybe he didn't see the message. Maybe he was too busy trying to power level. I don't know. Next I went on guild chat, explained what happened to me, and asked a ton of questions, to which I got some very helpful answers. And then I chose to leave. I came in peace to Ascension and was welcomed with open arms. I enjoyed my stay there and had some good times (Yeah! Pan ring! Who cares if it is the wrong one? Still gets me in! lol) I left in peace with new friendships and fond wishes.

Sorry you weren't on when fixerspy left... but we did get a chance to chat later in the evening when I logged my trader to kick him. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall your thanking me for showing the consideration of NOT placing your towers in jeopardy.

I could have just as easily rounded up a few dozens of my friends and attacked Immortal Ascension before anyone knew anything was going on. But I didn't. Although I was pissed at Immortal Ascension, I had no grievance against Ascension. I knew ALL of your towers would have been open to attack if I did. Out of respect to you and others in Ascension I chose to leave so that I could accept several invitations from junior players to assist them in organizing for the upcoming release of Alien Invasion...

Additionally, I joined The Firm, lead by Vedman, so I could play and just have fun. They are also some really nice folks I've known for awhile, and they don't have any towers at the moment to jepordize. And I'm sure that Vedman will let me know if he has any concerns of my 'cheerleading for the little guys'. Please note that The Firm, and Vedman, ARE NOT one of the little guilds i'm acting as an advisor for. LOL. They have TONS of experiance in the game. They are letting me hang out and have fun in the guild, which I really appreciate. Now... if I can just encourage some of the smaller guilds to merge with em, hee, they would be as large as Ascension. But I'm sure Vedman has that covered, lol.

[Butterfli]

Edited out his name...

The generals and spoke at length - and it was discussed that normally if a clans person asked before the raid not when the mob has lost 3 bubbles of life they will wait.

I do thank you very very greatly for that - though they are the orgs towers (you know how i personally feel)

The main reason I posted here was because the very close names (Immortal Ascension and Ascension- so other did not assume you were merely shortening IA's name) not to flame or critize.

I think it was an honorable thing you did with both your chars to take them out as to not jepordize the hard work that the org has put into getting the towers, though I wish the situation could be solved with the clans more amicably. Had i been on at the time I would have contacted their Pres or General myself and held conference with you both.

I stand by my words in leader chat - If one of Ascension members griefs a fellow clansman(or Omni or Nuetrals) it will be dealt which - punishment depending on what was done, taking into consideration the player type, previous actions, and history within the org. Also as much information about the situation will be gotten as possible to determine if the 'offender' was within his/her right or not. I hate the /org kick, not sure if you were on when i said it but it always somehow makes me feel like i failed in teaching that person what they needed to know.

[Fixerspy]

Gorehound, take a read of the above reply.

Hmm... Humor, Sarcasim, Brutal Honest, more or less on track with only a few misinterpretations of my intentions...

Nice job. Tasteful. Damn, I take back all those things I said about your mother. Hee.

Now... are for those minor misinterpretations about the enforcement of rules... the goal here is to find a balance between one extreme of no rules or no enforcement of rules and the extreme of kicking every single player that refuses to bend over and take it up the bung hole because the big clan guild leaders want to keep omni from attacking them.

I mean Come On! Didn't we supposedly 'work out something' a while back where the omni dorks wait before killing Smug so our guys can do the quest? Was the raid leader disciplined in any sort of way for refusing his request to wait a few minutes?

Poor guy getting from both ends... screwed by the Omni and the Clans... don't blame him for having a bad day. Bust him down, make em the guild boy toy for a month, tell him never do it again and leaders are working on something with Omni for the quest so ALL clan have a chance to do it. Been to any of those Omni raids?
They don't waste a second sending him to the reclaim.

And you are right about one thing... the game has changed. The F. U. attititude is the theme of the day. Geez... so sorry. Yes I can out damagae you. No I'm not gonna let you finish your kill or warn you to leave. SCREW YOU. /lets go with both barrels.

Yeah I'm upset about the Spec 4 thing... but do you know how many books I've given AWAY to the poor Clan Bastards because I feel sorry for them and know they don't have a chance against the F. U. Attitude crowd? Thats why I spend most of my time out there these days... to help my friends and others. If I was in it only for myself I would have been outta there a long time ago.

As for Ascension / Immortal Ascension yeah yeah I know one big happy family, sister guilds, whatever.

My point is the guild leaders are responsible for the behavior of their people. Right now we have only no enforcement or brutal enforcement of rules. As a result, the average player is getting screwed.

I hoping we can find some ground in the middle. If not... don't come crying to me later when others start returning fire with fire.

[Fixerspy]

Hey Gorehound! Hee. Your right... it is turning into a book! Hee. Kinda makes the eyes burn, lol.

[Butterfli]

lol, the is no sister guild or anything like that with IA just similar names - many many months ago - before i was pres there was talk of merger(mainly members thinking we should because of the similar name) with them from what i remember it was definate no. no secret alliance or anything fixer - like i said i do conmend you leaving though sorry to see it over griefing from another org.

and i try to apply equal enforcement of the rules within the org - i cannot control other org leders nor would i want to

the person i kicked was upset that an entire raid would not stop killing the mob (by the time he got there they had taken 3 bubbles off Smug's life - his own admittence) and leave for 5 mins. He wanted his ss armor (his own admittence again) so he decided to attack and mongo (his admittence) in order to help them (his words). After most the raid died he did his turn in and told them when they returned 'sorry i wanted my ss armor - go ahead now' (not exact but very close).
I didn't kick him because he had a bad day, or omni was griefing him, or because omni threatened our towers or anything like that it was his actions.

[Fixerspy]

Regarding the incident at Smugs... Silars was kind enough to send me this link so that all could review the weekend policy on the merc bot:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...hreadid=308678

please refer to the moderators for the most current policy changes... as I'm sure not all of us are up to speed.

As for the FFA (free for all) during the week, it has always been my understanding that omni allow a 'window' (15 mins i think) for clan to arrive and do the quest... and for omni to wait on a raid if asked. Would it really kill them to wait two more mins? Trigger fingers that itchy?

[Sturmfaust]

No I think its the game in general. People are starting to realize that all there is to do is kill rocks. And now people just dont care. Rubi-Ka has been reduced to a raid ground, thats it. Missions are non existant, and alot of people use this flagged pvp thing too much. This is why alot of people make enemys, cus of flagged ganks etc.

[Doctorfun]

fixerspy, I learned from another thread that you are a low-life ganker and like to brag about it. Now, from this one, I learn that you admit to train mobs onto other players intentionally.

Did it ever ocur to you that maybe, just maybe, the KS/ODing you're getting comes from a personal dislike of you?

That people don't team with you simply because they don't LIKE you?

[Yakuza]

Originally posted by DoctorFun
fixerspy, I learned from another thread that you are a low-life ganker and like to brag about it. Now, from this one, I learn that you admit to train mobs onto other players intentionally.

Did it ever ocur to you that maybe, just maybe, the KS/ODing you're getting comes from a personal dislike of you?

That people don't team with you simply because they don't LIKE you?

WHAT PREPOSTEROUS SUGGESTIONS!

[Butterfli]

amazing i've been forum troling as well fixer and i do know policy - i'm saying he arrived AFTER they started killing. Perhaps had he been there before they started the WOULD have given him his turn in time. Why should they wait for 15 mins if no one was there to do the quest or perhaps they did wait but he missed his window...
And yes I am up to speed on it, but really i didn't think this post was about you still ranting on him being disciplinced but about the injustices done to you and them not being disicplined.

[Fixerspy]

You know... I really think an AoE Perception buffs needs to be cast here... so many of you LOVE to take things out of context and bash people.

1. PvP is PvP. If you dare me or Invite to PvP to defend a Clan base and help kill OMNI... then don't expect me to play nice or play by your rules. Yes I gank in PvP. Period. Dont expect me to run around in the middle of a base with a big target on my forehead drawing fire because EVERYONE hates fixers and loves to kill them. Call it a legacy of hatred from the days BEFORE they gimped GA. With the new SL perks in play that is a whole lot easier than it used to be and a lot of veterans still put a notch in their belts for every fixer they kill.

2. Out of the 5,000+ hours I've logged on my accounts, I've spent maybe 1% of my time killing people when the gas is down. The only Clanners I've gotten in the habit of ganking from time to time are A) Real Life friends, in which case I always used the My Ultimate Favorite - Death Loop before they nerfed it (neutral friends and I would go on omni raid, we would save in Newland city by the prision, and which ever of us got killed first would sometimes hang at the reclaim and gank the others for fun a few times before we rezzed, buffed, and headed back to the battle...
B) anyone that IS Such A Major Jerkoff in a no pvp zone that I actually take the time and trouble of stalking them down and ganking them. For example... One Recent Real Life Story: if your a certain 201 trox soldier that rushed into Foremans and tried to OD me when I'm trying to get a tim scope for a low level grey that just sent me a pm BEGGING me for help because they couldn't find anyone else to help em get the Scope (getting the grey dude killed when Tim rubber banded across the room...) then YES! I Stalk You Back To the Tir Arena where you are hanging out with your friends tweaking up and trying to get a title and I Will Gank You! If you even knew me, you would know I have a soft spot for low level players. Used to be one myself. And to have some one screw me or screw them in a non pvp zone just because they can... it will make your a target of opportunity if I ever get the chance to gank you. C) I love solo'ing (hey... I have a toon that can do it very well, thank you very much) but on occasion I get bored and like a change of pace... in which case I go to the arena or a tower battle to hang out and gank some for the hell of it. But keep in mind I'm not picking on innocent people here trying to gain a level or finish a quest. These are people that want to kill someone too... they just get pissed it was them and not me. Don't believe for a second they wouldn't gank me in a heart beat if they could. Lots have tried. Not my fault I'm smarter and faster than a silly trox, lol.

Now... as for calling a low life ganker... I'm flattered. By the way you expressed it, I can tell you Do know what a real ganker is. Yes I can behave like one... but you will notice I have no title over my head. Most low life gankers are only interested in getting the titles as quickly as possible. Hence their ganking ANYONE and EVERYONE. I have no interest in a title (that might change when I hit 220... gotta find something to do then) and I am very selective of who I gank. I love to gank other gankers and Jerks... I tend to leave the sheep alone...

[Fixerspy]

by the way... of all those that have posted here... Butterfli, Gorehound, and Sturmfaust are familar with my behavior, actions, reputation as I have either had the pleasure of spending some time in their guilds, of teaming with team recently or off and on over the years, passing the hours chatting with them in guild leader chat on one of my toons, or (especially in Sturmfaust's case) can't help but constantly SEE him running around everywhere. I swear the man has fixer genes in his blood. By the way Sturm... you scare me. Hee. Seen you in action TOO many times, hee hee hee hee.

As for the rest of you, I don't know you, am not familar with you, and don't recall 'pick up' teaming with any of you. So prehaps you should re-read this post, pay attention the conversation, and think twice before you act like a silly lvl 1 noob trox and try to blindly bash anything in site. I understand the desire to 'protect the clans', but before you bash people you don't know, find out about them.

By the way Butterfli, Gorehound, Sturmfaust... Many thanks for picking apart the post and tossing it back at me in a manner that was critical, productive, and on target.

Unless anyone really feels the need to keep it going... I think everything on the post has been covered in depth.

[shadowgod]

FOR THE LOVE OF mocham...... christ... that first post makes the encylopedia britanica look like a leaflet of information

i think i glossed over one sentence.. then realized that its an expanded version of the whines that occured on leader chat.

To Each is His Own. i hardly see this doom & gloom of clans you're speaking of, and i hardly ever hear complaints about such stuff from my guildies, let alone from other competent and respectful leaders.

currently any kind of clan vs clan tower battling has either been a total mistake of a person in the wrong 5% zone for too long, or guilds merging and they wanted to take down their old towers fighting.

you're doing no one a favor but omni when you start to attack clan towers. and thusly, most of us competent leaders will just associate you with omni.

there are guilds that in general have views that i and my guild cant tolerate. we're not going to go and destroy their towers, and thus reduce our xp bonus (have you even realized this? no, you havent). we prefer to just ignore them and get on with what we want to do.

i could go on ad-nausium about the kind of person you are for even thinking this stuff up, let alone typing up a series of novels about it.

and as stated.. someone ticks you off, and they're in a guild.. the proper thing is to find out who their higher ranking officers are, and let them know whats going on. if they wont do anything.. then just try to avoid them. causing someone grief cause they might have griefed you once or twice, makes you no better than them, and generally worse for holding such a petty grudge in A GAME.

[Fixerspy]

hee. you say you didn't bother to read any of this, yet you feel free to wipe out the bash em club.

/casts karma on shadowgod

ok. here is boiled down version from another post:

In my experiance (Guilds) they are:

1. Sizeable, organized factions... some with strict rules, some with none at all... Most have handful or more of Supertweaks that have ZERO sportsman like conduct outside of a pvp zone and will screw any fellow clansman over if it means they get the cash, loot, and prizes. Fortunately they are a small group... but they are growing. Currently many of the 201+ crowd is making a mad dash for the 220 in order to tweak up for the AI Release. With the release... the guilds with the most 220+ tweaks will not only maintain the power base they now have... they have the BEST chance of grabbing the best spots to build cities. Hence... the guild with the best land and the best city is going to be comfortable for a really really long time to come. Due to the sheer numbers of active players these guilds have... mains and alts and be leveled extremely fast and tweaked easily. Most of these guys (er... guess I should stick my hand up here and admit to this one, hee) spend tons of time online every day. Almost all play at least 20 hours a week, but for most try 40 to 60 hours a week or more! Every spare waking moment Baby! Yeah!


2. Small guilds and ungielded players... they love thier freedom... and just want to be left alone to enjoy the game with a few friends. Yeah... it would be nice to level fast and be tweaked... but it aint happening any time soon... some of these dudes only play a few or several hours a week. And since they are not in one of the Uber guilds... they spend alot time in game looking for help just to have fun. (Side bar: if you are familar with my other recent rants... please give these guys a break... they need to enjoy the game too... so have a little decency and don't OD/steal kill these guys for the hell of it.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The theme to this rant is that too many (and growing) of the high level players are turning into SuperTweakJerks.

Fact: Although you, I, and a large membership of the Uber guilds spend a lot of time online... we are the MINORITY of players in the game. And we are having a SERIOUS impact on the quality of the game play for ALL players. And I'm not just talking about the xp bonus and contract benefits from the towers.

Problem: the F. U. attitude by a growing number of uber clan players screwing the little clan guys out of xp, cash, and prizes is having a Negative impact on the game. I spend a lot of my time online trying to help the Small guilds / unguilded clan because I CAN SOLO just about anywhere, and most times can screw up some Tweaks teams attempt to steal boss mobs, whereas the other guys don't stand a chance on their own against the supertweaks.

As for the guys that screwed with me yesterday on spec 4... it is down right rude to try to screw someone out of spec 4 loot when I just GAVE them a spec 4 several mins before. God help anyone trying to have fun in the game if they can't hold their own with the jerks.

My attitude: If my fellow high level players can't let the small guild / unguilded do a quest or kill a mob without some tweak spoiling it for them, then screw it.. A Major Change is needed in the Game... and if that Means a shift in the power base, so be it.

*Bashes Shadowgod repeatly over the head with her pair of sunglasses...

[shadowgod]

there are some simple fixes to this new selfish totally n00b generation that has been created...

1. eliminate the freaking "xp pool". we got along rather well before this came along.

2. lower how much xp you get from hecklers. come on.. i've fought tougher mobs and got less xp.. both sl and rk.. this is totally wrong.

none the less, when it comes to these kinds of people, eye for an eye doesnt work. it only encourages them. they dont see what they do as wrong, so when you do it back at them, they might get angry or something, but they still dont care.

when you know your opponent has some shred of intelligence, then yes.. sometimes "fire with fire" will work. but when they do not (in the case of this thread), it will not work. it then only validates what they were doing to show "everyone else is doing it now, so it must be accepted as ok".

[Fixerspy]

/me is stuned...
/me looks down at her pair of cracked and broken sunglasses..
/w Huh. Who would of thought that would work...
/me smiles

NICE Post, Shadow. And yes... those changes would force some of the dynamics of the game to chage, arguably, for the better. But I tend to get a little nervous at times when reading the patch notes... I would rather We initiate the solution... Not the developers with a patch, lol.

Sturmfaust also made some NICE observations on the game play.

Sidebar: I also really miss doing missions! And I agree with others that a 'Rebirth' of the missions IS the solution that would provide more variety to the game and reduce the Stress in the game this new selfish totally n00b generation that has created...

Why don't the Uber Clan Leader organize some 200 - 250 mission parties and schedule it on the calander of events (hee...i haven't checked to see if this has already been done, so don't flame me plz if you already have, hee). I know the 201+ crowd would be in low attendance, but it would give the 175 - 200 crowd some variety... and take a little of the heat out of SL...

Also... I think we could be making better use of the static dungeons in SL... and I wouldn't complain if the developers would toss in a few more of them for variety... that would help with the available mobs for loot drops. Hint Hint don't think anyone would compain about a 1% or 2% increase in drop rates either.

Anyways... AI will force changes. And I do expect at least 1 new unheard of Uber guild to emerge as a result... But... on the other hand... it will be funny when SL quites down the way RK did... and the madness just moves on to AI till the next expansion, lol.

/me winks at shadow and blows him a kiss as she grids out...