endgame solo ability of crats, inf/pan

[dukenukem]

could you guys give me an idea of endgame solo ability of crats

yes, I know you have killer ability

but apparantly a 220 advie and clear out the whole 255 inc on his own if he really felt like it -- how do crats compare?

[Portulis]

As I recall, the only charmmable mobs in Pand are blues, and there isn't a blue in the first Pand zone. So unless a crat goes into Pand with a raidforce and then goes off by himself, there is no crat Pand soloing.


In Inferno, crats max being able to solo some 250 dynamobs, with difficulty. By that I mean it won't be 100%. Crat limitations to soloing mainly revolve around our available charms. Highest pet we can charm on the 255 side is 230 Notum Scourge, 230+ Mortig (not sure top limit here, it involves dying and a cooperative SK team there). Secondary pet max level is 205ish. Problem is any boss mob over 230 is likely to kill the secondary pet (s) and in some places there is not an unlimited supply. Also, even with high add all def, crats still get hit and nuked by bosses, so there is always an element of chance.

So while crats can solo 230 bosses fairly easy (afreet, Numiel, Steel Filar), anything higher than that is a challenge.

Note, I have a 218 doc which can solo any of those bosses listed much better, and more reliably. As to adventurers, they can solo 250 bosses as well, but are limited to high ql mob soloing until level 215+, whereas crats are able to solo dynas reliably at at earlier level. For instance, my crat at 210 could solo many things my 210 adventurer simply can't.

[Magicbyte]

Originally Posted by Portulis So while crats can solo 230 bosses fairly easy (afreet, Numiel, Steel Filar), anything higher than that is a challenge.

Spetses/Ithaki/Crete and that gang arround 255 Incarnator are actually quite easy if you ask me. They are gimpy, predictable heckler mobs that to me is easier than forinstance Afreet, eventhough they are level 250.

A Crat can kill all the mobs at 255 incarnator solo to, and Id dare say it wont be that much slower than an advy, and the crat wont die on one of those wierd pulls you can get up there (since crat can mezz (yeah i know advys have limited mezzing ability to but that wont help against a bad pull)).

To answer initial question: Crats solo very well in Inferno (both zones), but for pandemonium you will need help to get trough the first portal but once on the other side you can prolly do fine just camping the spider (but so can almost any profession).

[Yabeyabe]

crats can solo fine in inferno, although many other profs can solo much, much easier.

crat's can solo if careful in pand by charming a blue (15k FA's are nice from a pet ) the only problem is getting one, and being very careful where you are. (you can't calm anything but pinks) so if you get an add, you're pretty much screwed.

unlike docs

[dukenukem]

actually I was most wondering about inferno, shouldn't have mentioned pande

but this is all very interesting

Originally Posted by Avoncrat crats can solo fine in inferno, although many other profs can solo much, much easier.

now that's something I've never heard, who could do that easier than a crat ?

[furydemon]

Originally Posted by dukenukem now that's something I've never heard, who could do that easier than a crat ?

doc, for one.

[lifeburst]

Doc are the main competition in inferno. Although, agent with fp doc can solo in inferno. Lately, 220-MAs have proven to be a working solo profession.

[Hotsy]

Adv's solo quite well too..

[Portulis]

Yeah, should have stuck agents up there. I've seen 212 agents soloing afreet.

Crats are nowhere near the top as soloing profession in Inferno for sure.

If I have a choice between soloing on doc or crat, its gonna be doc for the most part, only mob where crat makes more sense is on one of the dragons, where my crat can kill the dragon faster. For anything else the risk/benefit/time ratio favors the doc.

The difference I think people see, is that crats can solo the 215 dragons at 200ish, but many professions can't. However, at 220, many professions can solo all those mobs BETTER than a crat.

[dukenukem]

interesting

I've seen only parts on inferno, but the concern with some of the good stuff I thought was crowd control and adds

but maybe for an advie at 220 adds just aren't a problem

[Hotsy]

Originally Posted by Portulis The difference I think people see, is that crats can solo the 215 dragons at 200ish, but many professions can't. However, at 220, many professions can solo all those mobs BETTER than a crat.

And there you have the main problem with bureaucrats, there is no change in damage for the bureaucrats the higher level he gets.. when he gets the katana pet, things stay the same for the rest of his career. Only things that change are that he can charm mobs solo that he needed teams for before...

And to do LESS damage in the lower SL zones than we can do in inferno is something that really annoys me...

And with the broken Crowd Control, Traders outmezz a crat easy at higher levels...


/me wonders if Lifeburst has done the smart thing...

[Portulis]

Originally Posted by dukenukem interesting I've seen only parts on inferno, but the concern with some of the good stuff I thought was crowd control and adds but maybe for an advie at 220 adds just aren't a problem

No. Adds are a problem, but once a player is experienced, not as much. Anybody who knows what they are doing dots pulls the boss away from the minions and kills it in a safe spot, away from adds.

Calming the minions and killing the boss where he resides just isn't done, if for simple reason if somebody else comes along, you are liable to lose the damage contest, and the temptation for others to train you is rather high. Crats don't do well when trained, and when we run our pets stop fighting and often drag the adds with them.

A crat who wants to solo has to have either dot rings (available in TOTW or IS) or nano fingers. Once you dot the boss you run away (not too far) and the boss will follow you eventually and you can then send pets.

Docs of course can dot, and so can nts and agents. Keepers got a dot AI perk, although I'm not sure it lasts long enough for a dot pull.

But if say a crat wants to kill Crete, he can't do it right on top of the 255, he'd run up there, dot Crete, and run down the path, loosing the adds in the process. To be honest my doc gets spanked everytime he tries that so maybe that is one mob crats are better at.

[Magicbyte]

Originally Posted by Hotsy And there you have the main problem with bureaucrats, there is no change in damage for the bureaucrats the higher level he gets.. when he gets the katana pet, things stay the same for the rest of his career. Only things that change are that he can charm mobs solo that he needed teams for before... And with the broken Crowd Control, Traders outmezz a crat easy at higher levels...

There is a HUGE difference in soloability from level 205 to level 220. A 220 crat is able to survive alot more, Soloing forinstance Afreet Ellis is a huge pain (if dooable at all) at level 205, but at 220 its rather easy.

Crat is still the profession of choice as main mezzer on RK pande raids (faster casting time on crat mezzes, and you realy dont need to wipe the agro list anyhow).

Originally Posted by Portulis Calming the minions and killing the boss where he resides just isn't done, if for simple reason if somebody else comes along, you are liable to lose the damage contest, and the temptation for others to train you is rather high. Crats don't do well when trained, and when we run our pets stop fighting and often drag the adds with them.

Thank god I play on RK2. I always kill the mob in their spot, and Ive never had problems with people trying to OD or train me (for inferno mobs, offcourse i pull the 18h spawns on RK away from their spawn etc).

Problem with DOT pulling is that you have the initial agg, and you will always get a few swings on you before pets can take agg (specially if you are pulling far and pets lagging behind). Gets quite a bit easier when you got some points in CiB though and can use evasive stance, but I find it safer to just kill in place.

[Portulis]

LOl. I can't even imagine what what happen on RK 1 if I tried to kill afreet in his den :P Well you can't kill him in his den anyway because of the philanderer there.

Lets just say on RK1, dynaboss killing is an exercise in survival of the fittest, where pretty much anything goes and does go, so the more prepared you are for "surprises" the better.

On RK1 clan Pand raids, traders are the primary mezzers.

As to dot pulling, I use the overule perk (suggestion from Czarina) on doing it, but unless I am doing dragons I generally just use the doc, much easier, don't have to go get pets, etc.

[Magicbyte]

Originally Posted by Portulis LOl. I can't even imagine what what happen on RK 1 if I tried to kill afreet in his den :P Well you can't kill him in his den anyway because of the philanderer there. Lets just say on RK1, dynaboss killing is an exercise in survival of the fittest, where pretty much anything goes and does go, so the more prepared you are for "surprises" the better. On RK1 clan Pand raids, traders are the primary mezzers. As to dot pulling, I use the overule perk (suggestion from Czarina) on doing it, but unless I am doing dragons I generally just use the doc, much easier, don't have to go get pets, etc.

Yeah Ive heard its alot more ODing on RK1.

Afreet is pretty neat to kill in his den actually. I usually kill him in the "opening" of the den though, mess the 2 mobs in front of him and just pull him out with line of sight. He usually get 1-2 swings at me before pets get agro then, but thats not a problem.

Crats are ace for pande mezzing if they do it right, can keep the portal mobs stunned a higher % of the time, with the lowest SL mezz (you never need more than 40sec anyways unless its a mob you permamezz and then you just spam contemplate and it lands in a few tries).
The problem is once some crat use his "ubah" highlevel SL mezz, or traders try to show how uber mezzers they are Since their mezzes will overwrite crat mezz and you wont be able to cast new ones.

[Czarina]

I love pand mezzing... and have gotten to lead a few groups through Pand doing it... but alas most of the RK1 pand raid leaders have Traders in their head and don't understand the effectiveness of a 220 crat there.... especially one who understands about playing in 3rd person view. I'm seen some great traders there, just like crats... but also have seen some absolutely horrible traders whom don't land calms much at all.

[Portulis]

I went on a Pand raid on my crat for the first time (I wanted a glyph, and hey I got one ) the other night and traders were doing all the calming. I am a first person player-my background before AO was Quake 3, and I can't calm like the 3rd person players can. Since the trader calms stick and don't require casting contemplation over them, I would hazard that having the traders do it if they are proficient would be the way to go....and what the heck, playing crat on a Pabot raid is way less stressful than going on my doc :P

[Disq]

Heh, It's really hard and risky being doc at pande, healing trader (mostly they calm) or crats are like if they couldn't you have risk to get killed with few simple hit like Pande Sublj. hited me 5k-5k-7kcrit pluss 2 add. It's not fun

I played crat during raid, Well I just follow just shot when I need to till lair, It's pretty safe. Considering how risky playing as a doc

[furydemon]

I do enjoy mezzing in pande as those pinks really do calm easily (unless some afk /follow tab q person hits them - you know who you are!) - the bit I don't like so much are the Spectral Scourges as those beasts really do hit when the mezz breaks.

Kinda sweet being able to charm the blue adds on the beast tho

[Lillagumman]

Originally Posted by furydemon Kinda sweet being able to charm the blue adds on the beast tho

omg that does it my crat is goin to pande. Beast pads <3 on her and charming blues sound cool
might need some lvls though :P /tell about heckteams hehe :P oh crap Lilla needs sk too... bleh