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Thread: OOC: System and Setting

  1. #1

    OOC: System and Setting

    This has been bugging me personaly for a long time yet and i'd like to hear what the RPers on my server have to say about it. I've seen a thread of thought running through people's minds that the Setting of AO is seperate from any sort of System concerns with characters. An example would be to disregard levels, skill points, twinking, raid bots, and the like.

    Now the way I see it, many of the game system elements fit in very well with the setting elements. Even something obscure as looking as skill points could be seen in a different light. Since you have this little computer fused to your brain that allows you to enhance your own abilities, why wouldn't that same technology be used to get an empirical understanding of ability and skill? So we could say that at some point people figured out how much knowledge exactly constitutes one standardized level of skill. Now this would also explain the buff culture on AO, since if you have standardized levels of ability and programs that can alter it, you would also have people looking to use that technology to enhance their ability.

    I think a sort of mind set that would try and integrate system and setting as a part of roleplay could go a long way to makeing roleplay in AO more main stream and less strange. People already seem to have fallen into the antagonism culture associated with OT and the Clans (You suck! No YOU suck!), why not look at every day game happenings as part of roleplay?

    Any thoughts on this issue?
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
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    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
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  2. #2
    I can see good reasons why something along these lines can work well, such as it makes sense for my character, now a professor of nanotechnology, would consult her engineer friends on matters of weaponsmithing, or perhaps ask them for an insight, that is, a buff to gain a better understanding of chemistry.

    On the other hand, I will get into situations where from an RP perspective it would make sense to relay on the doctor's knowledge of, say, pharmasuitical technology, but when it comes down to the actual numbers, my character will have more in this skill just from the trickledown from my intelligence buffs. That doesn't make so much sense, and there are many very low-level RP characters around.

    It wouldn't be fun to need to have a high-level character just to compete in knowledge and skill in RP is what I mean.

    Same for weapon skills and other. Except for run speed I guess- hard to get around that one!

  3. #3
    To include things like level, skills etc. in RP does cause some mayor problems though. Compare a level 220 with a level 1, where a level 1 could probably be seen as the unaltered, standard human as he arrives on RK. Even a gimped level 220 would be a god in comparison. Not even science and nanotechnology can explain such a huge difference. A lot of people make alts for purely RP reasons, which are discarded afterwards. No use in getting those to a high level each time.

    If I take my level into account, a couple of level 100 Omni-Pol officers, trying to arrest me, would be crushed with my little finger. Things like this would limit RP a great deal. This doesn’t mean however that I can’t use my experience as a highly skilled MP in some way, but that really depends on the situation. The way how one reacts to any given situation and improvisation are what make RP interesting, not the level and skill system.

    The few people I knew who where always IC, even at missions, raids etc., where about the most trying people I’ve ever known. They slow down things considerably, they intervene at the most inconvenient moments and in general take the fun (as much as there is fun in missions and raids) out for everyone else. As far as I’m concerned, there’s a time for RP and there’s a time for other things.
    Marcos "Yarko" Orender
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  4. #4
    As I can see it, it would take a slightly different approuch to roleplaying to do things in this way. Obviously a low level character could be seen as wet behind the ears, or simply self educated. I'm also having a problem trying to figure out what level actualy means or where it comes from. The concept of level depends heavily on combat and that experiance flows into other areas that might not be combat related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarko
    Even a gimped level 220 would be a god in comparison. Not even science and nanotechnology can explain such a huge difference.
    Indeed yarko, its called the path to enlightenment! Where at the end you merge with the source of all creation. Its something that is part of the setting, so why should it be willfully be ignored that because of my high level of understanding that I have begun on a road to enlightenment? People who are high level should be able to say that they have higher ability over all then people of lower level. Not to say that people of lower levels wont ever have specialized knowledge (I still haven't figured out that spiffy kick/shoot thing the cyborgs and some omni guards do).

    There are also alot of things that the skill set in AO doesn't account for that low level characters can be good at. Social manipulation being one, another is politicing and lobbying. Also since so many of even the ARK rp characters are around level 70-100 it could be said that level is around the level a compitent and experianced person would have where higher levels reflect more intensive training and specialized knowledge. Thats also reflected in the names of some of the mission mobs who go up beyond level 200, so it could be said that there is even a higher level of training and conditioning that most people never get ahold of.

    I suppose it would take some of the fun of claiming that all lower level RP characters are stone bad-mewmews right out of chargen, who can take down even the more grizzled sentinel or unicorn commando. I think this approuch has given me a long term veiw of my character though; where they came from, how they learned, and different things they have seen.
    Last edited by Berael; Apr 25th, 2006 at 13:41:15.
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
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    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  5. #5
    I certainly don't ignore level and stats. It's easy to incorporate into role-play. We are supposed to be in highly advanced culture where technical read-outs would be common-place. Even things like names over peoples head can be technical readouts from having eye implants.

    I seen on the Discovery Channel not long ago these glasses that are being prototyped to do face regonition and include info on someones phone number and address, all showing as a sort of HUD inside the glasses.

    As far as the level issue, think of a supremely equipped navy SEAL or SAS trooper against a soccer mom. The soccer-mom would probably have little chance against the troopers in combat. With technology and the infusement of the redeemed/unredeemed power, the difference would be even greater IMO.
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  6. #6
    I tend to see level as more of aging, a maturation process. Certainly, a higher level would be more refined and I think smarter, ( I hope). Skills, are certainly implementable in an RP fashion. After all, we all know that Trox enforcers aren't the best at tradeskilling. As far as level, I take it into consideration, but I don't let it limit how I roleplay with a character. I know many low level Rpers that are very good at RPing. Its more about the *character*, and not the level. Level is certainly a factor, but not a mitigating one.
    Chi"Chimx" Delaet- 220/28 NT
    Proud Advisor of Uprising.


  7. #7
    Well not unilateraly, but I think it should be given consideration. Somebody might be a very good public speaker but a very poor shot.
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
    Hunting Grounds Neutral Neck Items Tradeskill Pricing v3.0 Roleplaying Organizations v2.0 (RK1)


    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vixentrox
    I certainly don't ignore level and stats. It's easy to incorporate into role-play. We are supposed to be in highly advanced culture where technical read-outs would be common-place.
    Tussa has been hammering that into our merry-lil-band's heads for as long as I remeber as well.

    All stats, skill, ect ect is treated like a digital readout of our toon's Mental and physical state Via NCU.

    Over equiping is treated in the same sence as a nano blocker being placed on equipment. such as a QL 300 Machine pistol would be "harmful" to Kotts if he tried to use one. so his personal nanos would prevent him from useing it, in order to keep him safe from himself (if that amkes sence. kinda like the "you're not getting a BB Gun for Christmas, you'll just shoot your eye out"). Buffing increases a persons skill, and thusly their readout in the NCU which would allow said person to equip the gun.

    Levels, or SCLs (secruity cleaance) are just like our personal rating in combat, and it has nothing to do with the diplomatic or social side of anything.

    Bots are just your typical AI, that manages which ever communications network your Org, Squad or raid is useing.

    Raid points, Tokens ect ect are all just forms of keeping track of each trooper's merits and allows the commanders to reward them accordingly. Of course that's just how some of us in Assembly do it, doesn't make it the right or wrong way, thats just our way :P

    HUDs and that sort are just the same as Vix said as well as the Soccor mom Vs. SEAL bit.

    A level 1 could very easly win a political discussion with Kotts (politics really ain't his bag), and I have no problem with that. However, I'll never agree to a level 1 killing Kotts in a gunfight, or a hacking war through /me's unless it's something like a sniper or a cheap shot, somewhat realistic.

  9. #9
    The other day, my character Dabblez went to the Borealis mayoral event. With her, she was Moundo, a RUR employee who works in security and who offered to act as her bodyguard on this occasion.

    Now, there are two ways you can look at this. You can see a mere level 70ish enforcer trying to protect a 180ish engineer, or you can just look at the big atrox in black armor protecting the geeky human female with eyeglasses and labcoat.

    For me the latter just makes more sense and is both visually and emotionally more satisfying.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotts
    Over equiping is treated in the same sence as a nano blocker being placed on equipment. such as a QL 300 Machine pistol would be "harmful" to Kotts if he tried to use one. so his personal nanos would prevent him from useing it, in order to keep him safe from himself (if that amkes sence. kinda like the "you're not getting a BB Gun for Christmas, you'll just shoot your eye out"). Buffing increases a persons skill, and thusly their readout in the NCU which would allow said person to equip the gun.
    I generaly interperate EO like this: when you have a skill buff it plugs the knowledge and ability directly into your brain so you instantly act with better skill, but that doesn't mean you actualy -have- that skill. So when the program ends the skill goes away and you are left with only the memory of being able to use that level of skill. So OE is people thinking that some how they should be able to use something because they remember using it, but now its a bit odd. Of course they will probably realize it was from the skill buffs but I don't think that would be able less disorienting.

    I've been trying to work out how to interperate levels. They obviously seem geared for combat and technical work. Since the game appears to be running on real time it would also be kind of odd that somebody can level to 220 in a month and just call it natural learning. If we think that levels indicate some sort of standard measurement of ability that all things can be judged on than the PCs in AO might have some other way of training that is similar to a permanent nano buff. I would think this because there are level 250 human mobs in existance, so there is obviously levels of ability above 200, but for some reason the normal players (even the OT ones) can't access them. Maybe thats because those people are training in the traditional sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savoy
    Now, there are two ways you can look at this. You can see a mere level 70ish enforcer trying to protect a 180ish engineer, or you can just look at the big atrox in black armor protecting the geeky human female with eyeglasses and labcoat.
    Well I can look at it both ways simultaniously. I would generaly assume that Dabblez is a lil smarter than she appears to be. So for one the huge atrox in black armor just looks scary and the lady in the lab coat doesn't, which would throw people off and make them wonder posibly who was the more powerful one in the first place. It could be that Dabblez's level represents huge technical ability and she could still be a really squishy engi. Then again it could have all been a clever ruse to distract anybody trying to hurt Dabblez and leave her time to bend them into funny pretzel shapes.
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
    Hunting Grounds Neutral Neck Items Tradeskill Pricing v3.0 Roleplaying Organizations v2.0 (RK1)


    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  11. #11
    You are over complicating it Barael. It was not intended as a ruse, Muondo was not a decoy. From an in-character perspective Dabblez felt protected becasue the atrox both looked and acted the part. Thinking about the level difference in that instance would just have been an unwlecome, ooc distraction.

    Now I guess I understand your point more if we were talking about a level 70 atrox trying to intimidate the level 220 atrox enforcer. In can see how that would seem impudent, irritating or just amusing to the higher level character.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  12. #12
    Another thing to remember, relating to the game world...

    The players are meant to be the 'exceptional' entities in the game..

    How many of you have come across an even level NPC of your same class, and just found them the easiest thing to beat? That's the reason, they're the 'spear carriers" or "red shirts"...

    But as to the skills.. it's very easy to imagine, with the level of techology in game, that these Nano programs can help with the skills.

    As anyone who's shot a rifle will remember, the hardest thing about keeping you sights on a target, is compensating for your own breathing. To improve the skill, the nanobots help steady the weapon for you.

    for trade skills, nano bots just help you remember, or add insight to your already existing skills.

    Then there's the other thing to remember. This is a GAME. If you worry too much about how and why things work, it sucks all the fun out of it. Suspend your disbelief for a while, and just have fun.
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