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Thread: An idea - The Ultimate Grind (tm).

  1. #1

    An idea - The Ultimate Grind (tm).

    Before I start, my thoughts could've gone haywire at any point while typing this text, so I apologize for any inconvenience my lack of coherency may cause.

    I was playing a certain MUD again after quite some time and it occured to me. You know how people tend to get bored after hitting 220, some after years of PvPing and twinking their alts and so on, some just because they don't get to grind with their mains anymore and aliens just ain't the same and henceforth? -- As I stated in the post, I was tired. I really meant people who had no desire to continue playing their 220ers anymore. Most people who would probably use a rebirth system would not be the types who consider their characters to be worth something, but the ones who have come to the conclusion that their current character isn't up to the tasks at hand.

    This idea (and if it has been suggested already, I apologize, I'm just too darn tired to start checkin') is...

    Rebirth!

    Your character would be reset back to level 1, but with all the credits and gear you have gathered. Of course you wouldn't be able to do this rebirth with any of your gear on, kind of like with reset points. You'd get to choose your breed, prof and the likes like first time 'round. -- See Basics for a more verbose entry about this.

    But why would anyone want to reset their precious main back to the newbie days, other than out of pure boredom? The Light Bar isn't that sought after an item, either.

    -- Added edits have the part about rewards that used to be here handled much better. Read Rewards down below. Breed/prof change and rewards have been turned into two separate things, because breed/prof change isn't as much a reward as an important part of the entire concept.

    But what this would do is give people something else to do than just make new alts ad nauseaum until they get bored and leave the game. They could play with their mains instead. At least I feel a lot more "at home" when playing with my main, as opposed to playing with my alts. And you could even explain this whole thing as a sort of "donation" into the "research pool" in Lost Eden. No new grind - just a new take on the original one.

    Well, thassit. I'll edit if I find any glaring mistakes later on.

    EDIT:

    As the idea evolved during the course of the thread and there might be some confusion (as people might not read the entire thread) about what it ended up looking like, I thought it would be a good idea to post the newer ideas here.

    Basics

    • The character would not be able to wear ANY items when rebirthing.
    • The character would get to keep all of his items (nodrops, including garden keys and NT decks, everything), all of his credits and so forth (being able to keep whatever towers which were up would be excellent!).
    • The character would be dropped to level 1 and join the faction


    1. he was in when he rebirthed,
    2. of neutrals. No exceptions (players that are presidents of Clan/Omni orgs can't rebirth),
    3. of his choosing (exception: Presidents could not choose their faction),
    4. he was on if Omni/Clan, or the neutral faction based on the player's choosing. Neutrals could only pick neutral as their side. Presidents can't choose a different faction.

    * Presidents could override the B, C and D choices' president locks by relinquishing leadership. Options are there to give ideas for possible implementation - if this ever makes it ingame, only one (unless FC makes one of its own) would be present.

    • All skills are reset, just like with the one time full IP reset.
    • Nanos should stay if old profession is retained, but if profession is changed, they are deleted, or at the very least hidden in such a manner that they can't be unhidden by the player.


    * Reasoning: You couldn't use them anyway until you level up, and losing those possibly very expensive improved nanos would be a big problem for certain professions. No reason not to have them stay if no profession change takes place.

    • Shadowbreed should be wiped. No exceptions.
    • The character would be able to wear all the items he should be able to wear, like +10 Pure novic ring and such, which should give a big enough advantage to anyone over regular players already on its own in the lower levels.
    • The character would have all his AXP at his disposal - as he levels up, he would gain AI levels accordingly if he had them before, and the AI level gain would end at the level he was at.


    * Caveat: If this is impossible, then AXP would have to be ground up from down up. The EXP bonus items working on AXP change would have to be enough, as the rebirther only exp bonus items would add a massive bonus to AXP gains.

    • Research should be handled the same way - unless a profession switch take place, of course. This could be the "profession loyalty bonus" one gets which has been discussed in the thread as well. Same caveat as with AXP.
    • Faster regular leveling. Example method of doing this:

      1. A player rebirths, and, just like with key quests, an invisible tag is attached to his character.
      2. The player then goes to a vendor, who now allows him to use his services.
      3. This vendor has two different lines of self only experience buffing nanos to sell:
        1. A generic line which works everywhere.
        2. A Rubi-Ka only line which is two, three or even four times better than the generic line.
      4. The two lines have, for instance, 3 different nanos in each line:
        1. First pair is relatively weak, and is cheap.
        2. Second pair is better, and more expensive.
        3. Third pair is the best and very expensive.


    * Reasoning: This example allows for a system which drains credits from the economy without forcing rebirthers to use a lot of credits if they don't want to (they don't have to buy the exp buff nanos if they don't want to in the first place). The better RK line would let people grind their experience on Rubi-Ka and still get relatively similar EXP they would get from SL, answering the call for extra experience on RK in its own way.

    Breed/profession change

    The real main course of this rebirth idea was changing of breed and/or profession. There was a minor debate on whether one should be allowed to change both profession and breed in one go (a) or just one at a time (b). Obvious differences:

    1. People would use less time if they want to change both their breed and prof,
    2. people would have to rebirth twice, making it a twice as long a grind.


    Other way would be to simply allow breed change without the chance for a profession change, or the other way around. Still, for the rebirth to cater to as many people who are fed up with their character's situation, both breed and profession change would be pretty much required.

    Rewards

    This issue was debated at several points of the existence of this thread.

    • It should, at most, be a low impact reward that does not require people to rebirth. Different choices:


    1. Perkline (AI/SL) reward: Should be closer to Second Genome perklines in effectiveness (or Gadgeteer of the Engineers as it is now and is not very useful). They would eat regular perks.
    2. Low impact global research: It could have multiple research levels like the earlier global researches. You could use the higher research levels only if you have rebirthed more often. The effects would be much lesser than actual research lines. Would require a HUD item to make people think even more whether they want to use them or not.
    3. Name color change.

    • Other reward discussed was "profession loyalty reward". Choices:


    1. None. Retaining all research is reward enough,
    2. a low impact profession-based perkline,
    3. a low impact profession-based (global) research line.

    * I personally don't think that any other rewards than breed/prof change, side change and having your old items would be necessary.

    Updates/disclaimers/whatever

    4/10th Nov) Issues with player's side. Would everyone be turned back to neutral, or stay on their own side? I think sided people (Omni or Clan) in orgs should not be reset into neutrals unless the player specifically thus chooses - however, if a person is not in an org, he should be. Automatically. This is because it doesn't really matter if an orgless person switches sides for the orgs at large, or if some random member does and comes back a bit later, but if, say, the org president goes off rebirthing and would end up neutral (having been Omni or Clan before), the organization would be broken. One other option for this would be to just simply stop org presidents from rebirthing wholesale, while everyone else could do it whenever they want and they would always be automatically changed into neutrals in the process. In the second option, if an org president relinquishes his/her position, s/he would be able to rebirth just as everyone else. -- Added to Basics above.

    Another edit:

    AND THIS IDEA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAGNAROK, which apparently has a similar thing in it. WHICH I wouldn't KNOW OF because I never played Ragnarok now did I? They just stole the old MUD idea to their MMO first. If you're going to just whine about it sorta being in Ragnarok, dine in Hell! Maybe we should drop all weapons, vehicles (steeds), hell, even the very MMO itself, because it was done first elsewhere. OMG ULTIMA ONLINE ... OMG ASHERON'S CALL. OMG OMG OMG. U JUST COPYIGN OTHER GAEMS ROFL.

    Seriously. If you have no constructive criticism or anything else... Just. Don't. Post. Simple as that. And from looking at the Wiki entry of RO, it's not quite the same as this idea. You are only nominally reborn there as you get into a completely NEW CLASS which seems to make it MANDATORY to be reborn, or you'll be left behind. See the difference? This idea is about only at best giving a nominal bonus for being rebirthed, aiming it at people who aren't satisfied with their current toon rather than forcing people to be reborn because you'll be 10 times better if you do it...

    STOP TALKING ABOUT RAGNAROK. STOP IT! STOOOP IIIIIT!

    Yet another edit:

    ... And if you have a problem with some other game's rebirthing system, DON'T BRING IT UP HERE. You aren't even criticizing this idea when you do that, you're criticizing SOME OTHER GAME. Is this thread in that game's forum? No? Then, just maybe, it's NOT about that game's rebirthing mechanism! Their rebirthing systems are likely to only share the NAME with this idea (as has been with the ones brought up earlier), but not what it actually DOES.

    Sheesh. I wonder if I have to add even more edits stating the obvious. :P
    Last edited by Swordbreaker; Nov 19th, 2010 at 02:50:22. Reason: 19/Nov edit, some typo fixes and whatnot.
    Executing Nano Program: Gift of Assurance. Target has not enough nano controlling units (NCU) left. Swordbreaker: Not enough NCU. O_o Fixichong: FFS Fixichong: ive failed as a fixer Fixichong: i quit

    One of the first of those people who put the Infused Dust Brigade Engineer Pistol (2,7k ME/EE making req) + Infused Master Engineer Pistol on the same Engineer before any updates that fixed anything (including the original sync issues inside the DB instance), lolz!11

  2. #2
    honestly.


    thats brilliant.

  3. #3
    Started reading that thinking, what an idiot this guy is, but in the end it is great idea!
    President of Bug Busters, Omni Tek - Rimor. Interested in joining?

  4. #4
    At first i thought this was gonna be a sarcastic post about how you LOVE grinds, and that we NEED a new, boring one.

    However I kind of like this idea, i cant say whether or not i would use it... actually scratch that ive got a NT so i probably would

    How about this- you keep:
    -all your items,
    -all your side tokens,
    -all your ipr's (the old ones get added onto the new ones, but in order for this to happen you have to be atleast level 100, so that people wouldent be reborn at level 1 a million times for the ipr.)
    -all your AXP, when you hit level 5, you insta-get ai1, at 15 ai2, and so forth
    -all your EXP, in a pool, so that you constantly regenerate your exp untill you hit the level you were at.

    I dont think a "reborn" only perkline would be a good idea because then people would feel the need to reroll in order to stay as twinky as possible, and that would essentially make it so that you have to do the whole **** twice in order to be finished.

    This would actually be an intriguing new feature, not only would it help funcom, keeping players playing/paying, it would also help players. Fighting a reborn person would be slightly different than fighting a new one. What if you could get all the pande phats or taraloot or whatnot, and get them on at the levels theyre locked to, not when its actually feasable getting them. (like say, a doc with a gph at level 130, a tank with leo boots at 175, a ma with an aura magnifier at 100).

    Sounds great. Do it funcom! thats an order!
    Hailing from Kirkland Washington
    Enfraam 217/21 NT
    10,000 levels

  5. #5
    I'd reroll my engie for sure, bye bye nanomage
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  6. #6
    This is a great idea, with a bit of consideration of course. It should only apply to characters that have reached 220 (note I don't have any there yet myself), and you probably shouldn't be allowed to get ALL those IPRs back, though a few could be nice.
    Moonleg, 220 Adventurer and never levelling again!
    Fixored, 167 gridrunner
    Lunarblade, 94 honorable keeper.
    Lavan, 115 pretty-boy doctor that needs more levels.
    Moonatic, 117 tinkerer of gizmos.
    Fortehwin, 211 shadow-creeper. With glowsticks.
    Ammoonium, 108 NT gimpz0r.
    Dingbot, 100 XP-stick.
    Runalot,169 freexer.
    Horsehumper, 36 hor ... I mean, fist-fighter.
    Debuff, 46 wrangle-giver.

  7. #7
    i troll the sugestions forum from time to time just out of boredom. i must say, this is quite possibly the best idea i have ever seen on here. i was just thinkin the other day how cool it would be to get some pandy loot at the level i could actualy use it. to bad you didnt come up with this a couple months ago. it would have been a perfect solution to the IPR thing, still may be due to this aparently being a one time deal were getting with LE. most of the items people wear now are as good as they can get on due to either level restrictions or ability restrictions so its not like you would see a level 20 soldja with fred's slevees on if this happend. i can not see any downside at all to this being implimented into the game with the exception of the " rebirth perks " mabe replace that with something less usefull ( we would already be getting maxed AI level's, IPR's and previously un-obtianable gear [ in certian level ranges] ) something like your character name in blue or a constant glow effect should be suficent.

  8. #8
    I want this. Byebye nanomage breed. They should delete it anyways or atleast make somekind of selectionbox for it "Are you making a lowbie twink etc.."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker
    How about this- you keep:
    -all your items,
    -all your side tokens,
    -all your ipr's (the old ones get added onto the new ones, but in order for this to happen you have to be atleast level 100, so that people wouldent be reborn at level 1 a million times for the ipr.)
    -all your AXP, when you hit level 5, you insta-get ai1, at 15 ai2, and so forth
    -all your EXP, in a pool, so that you constantly regenerate your exp untill you hit the level you were at.
    Actually, that pool idea and the AXP idea sounds great. I never thought of the alien level thing, but the exp pool bit was the other way I thought it could be implemented, but didn't mention it. It'd have to be a separate pool from the regular exp pool, since otherwise just having a crat give you some IC lub would make you ding up to your old high level in no time. The general idea of this suggestion was that you'd drop to level 1, have none of your great gear on, but wouldn't lose anything else but your levels. This means any IPR you used to have (of course you'd get the new ones from title levels, it's only common sense and would give people some kind of incentive to do this), tokens, everything would still be with you.

    I totally forgot that some items really are rather, um, hard to get at the levels you could put them on - that alone with all the phats you already have would be a great bonus. That's why I suggested some kind of extra perkline or some other great bonus for these reborn people. But really, some agi/sense perkline (especially if it gives less to agi/sense than Genius gives to int/psy or the str/sta line gives to those) for second/third/fourth time rebirthers wouldn't be a game stability breaking feature, and you wouldn't have to do it if you didn't want to - just something for the crazy people who really love to grind for the sake of twinking out for that last bit of agi/sense.

    Only one but comes to mind with your ideas. I still think this should be a level 220 (or suitably close to level 220, say 217 to 220) deal, since to be quite honest, hitting 220 is quite anticlimatic at the moment. And it would make reborn people somewhat unique, since not everyone and their dog would be doing it, just the really high end players.

    But really, who wants to REROLL a level 220 character? Seriously? If you'd just have to gather everything again? You can count me out. :-p
    Executing Nano Program: Gift of Assurance. Target has not enough nano controlling units (NCU) left. Swordbreaker: Not enough NCU. O_o Fixichong: FFS Fixichong: ive failed as a fixer Fixichong: i quit

    One of the first of those people who put the Infused Dust Brigade Engineer Pistol (2,7k ME/EE making req) + Infused Master Engineer Pistol on the same Engineer before any updates that fixed anything (including the original sync issues inside the DB instance), lolz!11

  10. #10
    Why would I wanna destroy my 220 main, which is perfect money farmer for my alts and friends?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by deniska
    Why would I wanna destroy my 220 main, which is perfect money farmer for my alts and friends?
    I don't know why you would want to destroy YOUR 220 main, but there might be people who'd do it anyway, due to boredom (the kind that makes you leave the game eventually) or whatever. Doesn't mean YOU'd have to do it, just means you COULD do it if you wanted to, or anyone else could do it if they wanted to.

    You know, voluntary.
    Executing Nano Program: Gift of Assurance. Target has not enough nano controlling units (NCU) left. Swordbreaker: Not enough NCU. O_o Fixichong: FFS Fixichong: ive failed as a fixer Fixichong: i quit

    One of the first of those people who put the Infused Dust Brigade Engineer Pistol (2,7k ME/EE making req) + Infused Master Engineer Pistol on the same Engineer before any updates that fixed anything (including the original sync issues inside the DB instance), lolz!11

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordbreaker
    I don't know why you would want to destroy YOUR 220 main, but there might be people who'd do it anyway, due to boredom (the kind that makes you leave the game eventually) or whatever. Doesn't mean YOU'd have to do it, just means you COULD do it if you wanted to, or anyone else could do it if they wanted to.

    You know, voluntary.
    Well the grind for XP/SK is boring, even if you make it twice faster... still is...

  13. #13
    this is a great idea
    Lordplayer: Lets just put it down to people being completely retarded carrying on the "reply nerf to any keeper topic" mentality of years gone by.

    Cergorn 220/30/70 Atrox Keeper
    Yamura 220/30/70 Soli Crat

  14. #14
    i suggest an option, for when you get reborn, to either keep your xp in the pool or donate it all/a % of it to the research pool, either for your side or yourself

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bleodemm
    i suggest an option, for when you get reborn, to either keep your xp in the pool or donate it all/a % of it to the research pool, either for your side or yourself
    That sounds perfect for the Launch of LE !!!

    Reborn character give all his past XP towards research.
    AXP should stay with this characer and make automatical dings lev 5 and then every 10 levels (as it is now)

    In addition to all benefits described above there would be one more....

    Level 220 Neutrals could start as OMNI or Clan (if they want) and that would make Edis happy so he should not have to bump his thread about faction forms fow lev200+ Neutrals
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
    Macierewicz 220/70/30 - Pvm Crat
    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

  16. #16
    The rebirth idea is just brilliant. I'm already seeing all those I-ve-got-no-life-besides-ao-people hitting 220 over and over again just to get that inch better by each rebirth.

    Bump for this.
    "The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe." Dr. Leonard 'Bones' McCoy

  17. #17
    Fun idea I wouldn't mind seeing it

    (oh and I think the whole rebirth thing would also be locked to breed no changing away from nanomage, we need smoeone to make fun of )
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by keta
    just to get that inch better by each rebirth.
    Hehe, one more thing to enhance their e-penor??

    Actually, it's quite a good idea and would likely keep some people around longer, yes.
    Getting the first toon to 220 might make you attached to it but the second or third.. they could just hit the Island with no love lost.

    I don¨t know about the whole redo breed/prof thing.. a lot more cookie cutters, methinks. All 'Trox melee advys.. Like Masta says, we need to keep the NMs around
    Me? Trouble? No trouble..

    As Mae West said: "Never resist temptation, you don't know if you'll get another chance."

  19. #19
    Except that wouldn't remove the problem some people (like Rubera there) are having, which is that they don't like playing their NM 220ers. And the NM pwns joo. Stop dissing the NM. If I were to have my Engineer reborn, I'd still be an NM engi out of my own choice.
    Executing Nano Program: Gift of Assurance. Target has not enough nano controlling units (NCU) left. Swordbreaker: Not enough NCU. O_o Fixichong: FFS Fixichong: ive failed as a fixer Fixichong: i quit

    One of the first of those people who put the Infused Dust Brigade Engineer Pistol (2,7k ME/EE making req) + Infused Master Engineer Pistol on the same Engineer before any updates that fixed anything (including the original sync issues inside the DB instance), lolz!11

  20. #20
    I think there should be some link to your old character, so you could either change breed or profession but not both. Otherwise there could be too many reborn Atrox Advies and Atrox Keepers.
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
    Macierewicz 220/70/30 - Pvm Crat
    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

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