I made myself sad today.....

[Perin]

Disclaimer: I am aware of the size of this post before you, please do not bitch at me saying that it is too long and I should cut it down/blahblahblah, if you want to, just scroll down to the very end and read what I say about this post being more of a venting experience. Thank you and Enjoy.

So I logged in after a while of not logging in to AO and decided to do some work on getting myself bigger symbs in, seems all fine and no problem, just go blitz some implants, etc etc all that normal stuff one prepares in doing when they are gonna go and work on symbiants, no problem.

So during this time, I was slightly bored as you would imagine, so I talked with a longtime friend of mine during a lot of it. She is a doc, and I was telling her as I've told her before, about how Agent's need help in PvM damage. Now being a non-agent, like all non-agents, she brought up and went in to all about PvP against Agents and how Agent's damage in pvp is just fine, so they need no help in PvM.

Now after a while of argumenting about how powerful doc is, and that comparing Agent and Doc damage-wise in PvP is completely silly, I eventually got the conversation back to PvM, or so I thought. She says to me:

[Doc]: Let me see if I can break this down for you:
[Doc]: I do 1200-1400 dmg per shot on a mob PVM.
[Doc]: an agent in PVP with the 50% nerf does that same amount on me.

Now I go and pick at what she says here, because I see some big problems right off the bat. First of all, 1200-1400 damage per regular shot from Cobra in PvP doesn't sound right to me, from my own recollection as it's been a while since I PvP in BS, average shot is more like 1,000. Maybe 1,100. I tell her that, then of course, I point out the major flaw in it all. In PvP the players don't have nearly as much as the AC as mobs in PvM do, so there's a range of damage that happens there, it actually moves, people aren't doing minimum damage in PvP on regular shots. (Not to mention that wonderful fact that if an Agent is using Razorback we only do like what? 100-300 damage per regular shot anyway?)

Anyhow I proceed to go in and pick around and compare things. Thinking about it really made me sad because I came up with this..

In PvM my Agent with Cobra Mk 6 ql300 in HP setup does about 1750 damage, and only about like 3.1/3.2k critical hits somewhere around there. And my fling is base damage, every 16 seconds (very slow recharge for fling compared to other professions.)

Now, Doc, with pretty much the same +HP in her setup as I have, using dual Pistols, does about 1200 minimum damage per shot. Okay.

So here's where I make myself sad thinking about this crap.

Amount of times an Agent attacks per minute is 30 times, not counting Fling Shots.

1750*30 = 52,500 damage a minute. Not including critical hits or Fling Shots.

Amount of times a Blaze Pistol Doc attacks per minute is 40 times, not counting Fling or Burst.

1200*40 = 48,000 damage a minute. Not including crits/fling/burst, that's pretty close to the damage that an agent puts out right there I noticed

Now we go to specials. A 16 second Fling recharge, let's say a fight with a mob lasting 3 minutes. 60*3 = 180 seconds, 180/16 = 11 Fling Shots, and 1 Aimed shot.

13,000+11*1,750 = 32,250 + 52,500*3 = 189,750

Now a Doc's specials, for a fight that lasts 3 minutes. Let's say what? 8 second fling, 10 second burst? Something like that? I think docs have better than that with Blaze Pistols, but I'm not sure. But ok, if we say 8 second fling, that's 180/8 which is 22 Fling Shots in 3 minutes. 10 second burst is 18 Bursts in 3 minutes.

22*1,200 = 26,400
18*1,200*3 (burst being 3 regular shots) = 64,800
48,000*3 = 144,000 + 64,800 + 26,400 = 235,200

Doc: 235,200
Agent: 189,750
before critical hits.

Now I'm gonna say for Agent an average of 35% of hits are critical, I'd say that's being generous considering with my setup I've got 24% critical, and then Laser Aim, which is very "ehhh" about critical hits, even though it's a large boost, it's not 100% active all the time, and it's a good chance that even when it is active that many of the crits during it, are hits that already woulda been crits without the boost anyway.

So 35% critical chance, we attack just about 33 times a minute because of our crappy fling recharge. But using the 3 minute formula we do a total of 30+30+30+11, so 101 attacks +1 AS. So 35 hits lets say are critical. With a critical damage of 3.2k per shot, instead of 1,750. So that's 1,450*35 = 50,750 damage through critical hits...

189,750 + 50,750 = 240,500 ... and I'm not gonna even consider Doc's criticals because I know they are low % chance, and I know they probably don't add too much to the equation anyway...

Agent (w/ 35% critical hits.) = 240,500 damage in a 3 minute fight.
Doc (w/o counting critical hits.) = 235,200 damage in a 3 minute fight.

Now I also not counting the perks, and the DoTs here. But in my experience I'd say a Doc's DoT damage would easily OD the perk damage I'd do on my Agent in a 3 minute fight.. Even if the doc only DoTs for like half the fight...

So... yeah.. I make myself sad thinking that in a 3 minute fight, Agent would only do about 5k damage more than a doc, if that much even... and if we don't actually get OD'd by the Doc instead...

Now yes, there's also going to be some misses on both the Agent and the Doc sides, the Doc will probably miss more than the Agent, but the Agent will still miss a few hits as well.

Agent's got 101 attacks that have the chance to miss (1 AS can't miss), let's say 10 of those miss over the entire 3 minute fight. And say 3 of them woulda been critical hits.

7*1,750 = 12,250 + 3*3,200 = 9,600+12,250 = 21,850

Docs will have a total of 40*3 + 22+18 attacks for a 3 minute fight. Total of 160 hits. Let's say the doc misses like... I dunno... 40 hits total in the three minutes (that's 4 times the amount of hits that I put for Agent.) Let's say 27 of them regular hits, 8 flings and 5 bursts.

27*1,200 = 32,400 + 8*1,200 = 9,600 + 5*3,600 = 18,000 + 32,400 + 9,600 = 60,000

So when misses are factored...

Agent: 218,650 in 3 minutes.
Doc: 175,200 in 3 minutes.

Makes me feel better, but I'm still not counting in DoTs, so it makes me sad to even think about trying to factor DoTs into the equation when you've got DoTs that are an average of 11k-13k damage over 30seconds each... So even a doc landing 3 DoTs in a timeframe of 3 minutes (totally possible) would be at least 33k damage, which puts them right back up over 200k/3min mark (total possible DoTs in 3 minute time would be a maximum of like 10-ish when you consider cast/recharge times and all that, which is a scary 110,000 minimum damage. Of course, I'm not saying the doc will land 10, that's why I said 3) As for Agent perks over the 3 minutes. Considering attack and recharge times... I'll have to kinda add it all out here

2 Tranq, 2 APS, 2 Pinpoint/FtF, 2 Concussive, 2 Called Shots, 2 Fuzz/FF, 2 The shot (or 2 NF/Bot Confine in my case. Saying an AL20 Agent, not AL30 here.) 1 Assassinate.

Tranq x2 = 1k, APS x2 = 2k(ish?), Pinpoint x2 = 6k, FtF x2 = 4.5k (ish?), Called Shot x2 = 7k (ish?), Shot x2 = 13k (6.5k x2), Fuzz/FF x2 = 8k? NF/Bot x2 = 8k? (if it lands in pvm due to NR resist, which it won't, just like Silent Plague.) 1 Assassinate = 8k... if it lands....

So perks for Agent is something like 30-40k damage over a 3 minute period of time. I don't really know about Doc perks for sure, so I won't attempt it.

Agent (w/ perks, crits, misses.) = 250k -ish over 3 minutes
Doc (w/o perks, crits. w/ 3 landing DoTs and misses.) = 215k -ish over 3 minutes.

Agent SL procs are very "meh" for if/when they land so say maybe with a total of the 101 attacks, 91 of them landing (accounting for the misses here.) we'd see maybe... 25 procs go off, so say like... 30k damage from SL proc'ing

Agent: 280k -ish over 3 min
Doc: 215k -ish over 3 min

280,000-215,000 = 65,000/3 (minutes) = 21,666.66 damage a minute more than a doc..

now... Is it just me or is it really really sad when our difference in damage per minute, between Doc/Agent is less than a single FA/Burst rotation (15k+13k at best. 28k) from a Soldier?

And also 280,000 / 3 = 93,333.33 damage per minute in case anyone was wondering, yeah... Agents don't reach even 100k dmg/min easily...

I'm sad... And thanks to anyone who actually decided to read any of this post, it's long, and huge, and probably would bore any community that weren't the Agent community to complete death. And I'm sure plenty of the Agents who read this will be on the edge of death hoping for it to end by the middle of it.

Thanks again, and keep in mind that this is more of just a venting of everything that was in my head that I had to get out, in to text, in a place where maybe there'd be a couple of people who'd actually care about it.



I am also aware that my Burst/Fling recharge for Doctor is off by a few seconds. Burst should be more like 11/12 seconds and Fling should be 6, but I didn't really care to push those very very last bits of damage out by re-calculating those, if someone feels like they want to, please go ahead. I'm not certain but I think it'd be an improvement upon damage than what my recharge times credit them.

[Marinegent]

edit : for my stupidity when i made this post over a year and a half ago.

[DDM_LordShado]

1) How can you get in a couple more AS'es on a mob?

2) If you are fighting a mob for 3 minutes, I am going to assume you are in Inferno (as example) and you would be Mim in doc, as well. Couldn't you DOT too? That would raise up your damage, wouldn't it? And if you are using a 300 Cobra, shouldn't your damage be higher than 1750 ish? With the SL damage nanos, and AR, I would think it would be higher. Actually, I hope it is higher for the Agent I have sake (160).

[Perin]

1) How can you get in a couple more AS'es on a mob?

2) If you are fighting a mob for 3 minutes, I am going to assume you are in Inferno (as example) and you would be Mim in doc, as well. Couldn't you DOT too? That would raise up your damage, wouldn't it? And if you are using a 300 Cobra, shouldn't your damage be higher than 1750 ish? With the SL damage nanos, and AR, I would think it would be higher. Actually, I hope it is higher for the Agent I have sake (160).

You would think, but no it's not higher :P

Keep in mind I said early on, "HP Setup" that is meaning of course HP Bracers, not Poison damage aruls, but.. even then, with poison aruls on, using a ql300 Cobra, yeah, the damage is still only like 1900 per hit. (So there's really never anything I ever put my poison aruls on for anymore... The HP works better for us Agents.)


To Marinesold, the idea of a 3 minute fight is an Agent solo'ing a mob for 3 minutes long, and it does happen quite often in Inferno solo'ing, and even to be perfectly honest about Inferno solo'ing, we 95% of the time don't even get a SINGLE Aimedshot in because of the way we have to pull those bosses, so I was being kind in adding a single AS into the equation.



As to Agent using DoTs... well.. Yes we can, but there's a few problems with us using DoTs, especially while we're solo'ing, the first is Nanopool management, usually while we're there solo'ing, keep in mind, we're tanking, so we're basically casting CH a lot, now my Agent is Nanomage, and so I can go much longer than other breeds in spamming CH, but there's still the need to manage the Nanopool, and casting DoTs as an Agent takes LOTS of Nano, and we don't have Nano Delta like a Doc does.

Now let's take a look at the actual damage that these DoTs do that an Agent has access to...

Scythe B Virus - 211 dmg, every 3 seconds, for 90 seconds... total of 6,330 damage, over a minute and a half... That's casting it twice for a mob taking 3 minutes, and near the very end it probably wouldn't even finish the entire ticks.

Sentinent Nano Gorger - 431 dmg, every 6 seconds, for 90 seconds... 6,465 damage, and same as above... Those are the Doc DoTs that we have available to us...

Both cost a bit over 1k nano to cast each time as well, so each time you cast a DoT from the Doc line it's like taking away a CH from your total nanopool..

Now as to the Agent DoTs we have.. *hah*

Delayed Assassin - 215, 4.5sec tick, 90 seconds... 1431 nanocost (that's like a CH and a half...) 4,300 damage... very pitiful...

Dead Cold (Pen quest reward, I have it, so I'd actually be using this.) - 322, 4.5sec tick, 90 seconds. 1863 Nanocost (wtf ouch man) for 6,440 damage

Improved Dead Cold (No agent would use this crap) - 431, 3sec, 90 seconds, 2143 Nano Cost (...) for 12,930 damage.. Well... Yay, the crap DoT that no Agent would use because it requires us to wear a useless HUD item that we don't have the space for, and because the nanoskill requirements are far too high to merit the ability, finally reaches the damage of a Doctor's DoT... Except that it's over 90 seconds, while Doc ones are 30 seconds....

So... Our best DoT is only 1/3rd as powerful as a Doc one's, and for 2,143 nanopool, that's a hell of alot of nanopool, even for me as a Nanomage w/ 11k pool.


So if we do decide to expend all our nanopool throughout the fight, and cast 2 doc dots + our improved dead cold, all the way through the fight twice each. Agent ends up spending a bit over 8,000 nanopool for a total damage boost of, 38.8k damage over the 3 minutes time. 8,000 nanopool is better spent on about 7 Complete Heals and the HUD slot for the Nanodeck is better for ... Well the Nanodeck ain't *so* bad with crit resist 2, but I don't really have any space for it in my HUD/Utils, and I don't have the nanoskills to cast Improved Dead Cold, and I really don't want to have to go through that whole questline for nanos I'm never gonna use because I simply can't cast them.

[Perin]

There's also a little thing that I'd like to say about AR effecting damage. It does effect damage yes, but in all honesty it doesn't effect it nearly as much as some people (especially support professions) would like to believe. Especially if you start off with a really crappy weapon in the first place... Meaning... Cobra is a totally crappy weapon, the worst weapon since the release of Lost Eden, even Combat Remodulator actually has a use that makes it worth using for certain professions.. Cobra is just a lousy damage buff..

In fact actually since Glory is now fixed on Silenced Kyr 3, it's probably better to go back to Kyr Type 3 for Glory for AR than it would be using Cobra for the tiny damage boost :\

Oh I also want to point out that the Doc who told me 1200-1400 PvM damage, is using a 5 slot Projectile Arul, and while I'm not using any Damage Sabas, I do have perks that increase my damage just about the same amount really. I also am using a Paragon board (2.5) while she is using a 1k board (just a difference of +10 damage though :P)

Also Agent has +252 damage in nano buffs that we cast (2 SL buffs + Form + Grin), which was included in my damage figure above, I also have 2485 AR out of an MBS of 2600 on the Cobra, so the damage buff from AR isn't *totally* in effect for my Cobra, but still I could go back to Kyr Type 3 with 2500 MBS and notice very little difference in damage.

[Ebondevil]

Perin, you're numbers are very interesting to be honest, I know on my Agent I've been working on going all out for +add damage and CritIncreas, though I don't have combined armour and to be honest I don't plan on it as my CritIncrease setup requires Enhanced Dustbrigade in a few places which add damage as well, but little AR.

I normally hit min damage for about 2400 and crit for 3600-3800, but I am wearing 5 gem Aruls, have a tower to increase my damage and I suspect I use better SL procs than you do, overall I have a total of about +800 add damage.

Since you do have a doc friend you can compare this with, I would recommend the both of you go out and compare your damage outputs with a damage dumper on an Inferno Dyna boss, taking it in turns to spend a couple of minutes soloing it and trying to kill it as fast as possible, not using any Outside Buffs at all and pulling the mob yourself in the normal way.

I'd be very interested in your results, I have a feeling the SL procs may have more effect than you think and a damage dumper is the best way to compare damage with other professions rather than trying to estimate and calculate it based on perks and average damage.

A post of your setup, including perks/research/procs and the Docs Setup would also be interesting information to have if it's no trouble

[Perin]

Perin, you're numbers are very interesting to be honest, I know on my Agent I've been working on going all out for +add damage and CritIncreas, though I don't have combined armour and to be honest I don't plan on it as my CritIncrease setup requires Enhanced Dustbrigade in a few places which add damage as well, but little AR.

I normally hit min damage for about 2400 and crit for 3600-3800, but I am wearing 5 gem Aruls, have a tower to increase my damage and I suspect I use better SL procs than you do, overall I have a total of about +800 add damage.

Since you do have a doc friend you can compare this with, I would recommend the both of you go out and compare your damage outputs with a damage dumper on an Inferno Dyna boss, taking it in turns to spend a couple of minutes soloing it and trying to kill it as fast as possible, not using any Outside Buffs at all and pulling the mob yourself in the normal way.

I'd be very interested in your results, I have a feeling the SL procs may have more effect than you think and a damage dumper is the best way to compare damage with other professions rather than trying to estimate and calculate it based on perks and average damage.

A post of your setup, including perks/research/procs and the Docs Setup would also be interesting information to have if it's no trouble

Aye, I was just about to do this, as I've gotten back on AO after taking a while to calm down about this all. Contacted her, and asked if we'd go out and try some Inf Dragons. Pretty simple, with high HP mobs ya know.

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=92651 is my most recent setup, keep in mind I have a lot of work to do on the Symbiant section, but Symbs don't add very much in terms in damage either

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=88068 is her setup


As for when it comes to a damage tower? Haha, no, I don't have one of those I'm a clanner, as for the SL procs, I'm usually pretty damn lazy when it comes to casting the top ones I will admit, I go with Sickening series 99% of the time. Which is usually the best that most agents go for if they don't wanna go and do the trader series of casting the big ones

I used to have about +600 add damage myself, but then I moved myself away from +dmg build because I found it barely worth it.


Oh and I have thought about swapping enhanced db for the ofab stuff I currently have, I just need to get a damn team to take me because I sit on /lft for hours and there's never anyone who wants me :P

[Fulllauto]

In pvm would it be possible to mimic crat (lol) AS a mob then mezz it then AS again? (

[Ebondevil]

In pvm would it be possible to mimic crat (lol) AS a mob then mezz it then AS again? (

Yes it should be possible, I've never tested it myself though, the RK mezzes are hard to land, very unreliable, you effectivly need to break combat before trying, and you would need to insure that your procs don't fire on previous attacks or they'll break the mezz as well, overall the time taken to land the mezz would probably cost you as much, if not more, Damage as you would gain from the extra Aimed shot.

Also the calms aren't usable on Dyna bosses so not really worth it and for soloing you really need mimic doc for the healing, I've found it easier to let pets keep aggro, hide out of sight till I loose aggro to the charmed pet and then AS the mob in question when soloing, since SL missions were changed though and you can't pull hard missions to solo any more, I haven't had the opportunity to use that tactic in a while.

[Perin]

In pvm would it be possible to mimic crat (lol) AS a mob then mezz it then AS again? (

Not bosses and other immune to mezz mobs, but in theory yes, the only problem would be is when a mob is mezzed, it's heal delta kicks in and it'll easy have healed the 13k an AS would have done in damage and more by the time you AS it (pretty much instantly)


By the way, just did myself, and my damage is actually:

1764 regular hit
3135 critical hit

Creepy Spider, level 230, Spider Dyna in Inferno.

1. Anim ( 314.811 / 74.340 / 89 / 25 / 28% / 10.731 )
Name!/Total dmg/ dmg/min/ hits/ crits/ crit%/ highest hit

Time to kill: ~4min 15seconds.

For those that don't know I wrote in what each # means

Numiel, level 230, Demon Dyna in Inferno.

Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Anim ( 313.182 / 89.460 / 83 / 24 / 28% / 9.080 )

Time to kill: 3min 30seconds.

Pretty much the same, the dmg/min is probably a bit more correct on Numiel due to Numiel pathing better when I pulled him compared to Creepy :P

[Ebondevil]

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=92651 is my most recent setup, keep in mind I have a lot of work to do on the Symbiant section, but Symbs don't add very much in terms in damage either

You might want to consider a different ring than the pure Novictum one, I use Ring of Gruesome Misery myself, though Bigot's Ring of Sacrifice, Ring of Summoned Terror or Agents' Ring of Aim might be better options for you for the Max Health, It depends on why you're keeping the Pure Novictum ring on though.

I'm guessing you're in the process of trying to get 5 Slot HP aruls as well for more health, though the Ancient Bracer might be a worthwhile investment if you can get the team for Albtraum or cash to buy the components.

Neither of which however is really going to increase your Damage very much, if at all though, so they're not important for the tests, though you may want to consider putting in a Hardcore CPU Upgrade when soloing to make CH easier.

To me it looks like you've both put about Equal effort into your characters overall, both of you have some nice endgame gear but niether of you are finished yet, so in theory you should be able to do significantly more damage than her to compensate for your much poorer healing.

So now I'm half eager for and half dreading the DD results of your friend to be honest, I'd be disappointed to learn that your friend could OD you, but not really surprised.

[Ebondevil]

1. Anim ( 314.811 / 74.340 / 89 / 25 / 28% / 10.731 )
Name!/Total dmg/ dmg/min/ hits/ crits/ crit%/ highest hit

If you're using Tiny Dump, I've noticed that the Crit% is reported lower than it actually is, I think the Proc damage is counted as a regular hit or something and artificially lowers it.

[Perin]

Reason I don't have Agent's Ring of Aim on and am still using Novictum is because I havn't gotten those last BS points for the Ring, I havn't played as much in the last months, mainly due to computer problems, now that I have a good working computer, I'm trying to pick up where I left off a bit. I also worked my NT through BS and all that, which took a long time and lots of VP farming there, and so really the reason I don't have Ring of Aim yet is simply because I havn't gotten back to being a BS frequenter like I was before. And whenever I do get to BS, clan is either getting our asses kicked with a large queue, or we win 2 rounds, then we have a superlarge clan queue, then we start losing because of all the newbs on our side that come flowing in and clog the BS queue when that happens. So all of that has kept me away from BS for a while.

As to Alb, pfft, I can't get teams for anywhere, you are Agent, you know our in-ability to pick up teams... I used to get teams for Alb when it was new, and is how I got some of my stuff, but recently I can't get teams for anything, including DB instance for the rest of the DB stuff that I need

Ring of Summoned Terror, back when Alb was new, I tried to get it, and didn't have any luck, and now since I can't get teams for anything, I havn't got it still back then (and you can even check my posts from that time) I was even thinking about going and simply using Summoned Terror instead of HHAB even which under the equipment that is out there now would be RoST+Ring of Aim instead of Ring of Aim + HHAB. Havn't decided between Ring of Aim/Summoned Terror for use with HHAB at the moment, but having even one of them would be nice, but my luck is the worst out there :P


Hardcore CPU, well here's where opinions change really. My nanopool is really okay for me for what I do, because .. simply... I'm nanomage :P and I really need as much NCU as I can get, because.. simply.. I'm an agent, and we use so damn much NCU ... So instead of stuffing in a CPU I just have a larger nanopool, and things work out good enough for me, I don't have to stim nano anymore like I used to back before LE while fighting Inf Dragons at least ( I have 11.5k Nanopool in case you were wondering )


As for if she can OD me, I do not believe she can, unless the mob is more evade focused and is actually making me miss my shots a lot more often, and causing my perks to not land. Then she'd pull ahead easier because of her nanobot dmg with DoTs. It's not really about her OD'ing me, as I never really claimed in my post above that it was possible, it's simply that the damage is actually that close in comparison, that's the scary part :\ It's like... WTF is the point anymore of playing Agent if they are making Docs that do almost as much damage as we do now? :\


Oh, and as for Crit % with tinydump, I dunno, if you look at the total hits I did on Creepy Spider and Numiel it doesn't look as if the procs were counted in there. And 25 critical hits is 28% of 89 regular hits. I don't believe that the proc hits are counted as regular hit because if they were then the regular hit # would be a lot higher, but looking at Numiel it looks like I hit the proper amount of times for how much time it took to kill him considering Agent attack speed.

[Jonalethian]

Heres some statistics I came up with as I have both agent and doc. They kinda speak for themselves...


My 220 agent Steinberg (swap inferno boots..)
Killing Numiel - hp/ar setupped - add poison dmg = 178
1. You : 313 439 hp ( 156 719 hp/min ) ( Nanobots 42% Fling Shot 8% Regular 12% Critical 35% )
2M38sec kill time, true dpm=119 000 / min
FP doc a+b dots, perks, laser aim/grim reaper procs, 10 fling shots / AR ~2600
regular hit 1825, crit 3221, calculated +crit from equipment 29, crit hit % reality 62.



My 218 doctor Mirkka (swap inferno boots)
Killing Numiel - hp/nano setupped - add proj dmg = 0
1. You : 312 287 hp ( 156 143 hp/min ) ( Nanobots 63% Burst 7% Fling Shot 5% Regular 22% Critical 1% )
2M43sec kill time, true dpm =114 950 / min
a+b+c dots, perks, ubt proc, 19 fling shots, 10 burst / AR ~1400
regular hit 959, crit 1873, calculated + crit from equipment 0, crit hit % reality 2

[Ober]

I've said this for 2 years now (tho mostly ingame).

Interesting to see agents finally noticing the same..

[Perin]

Heres some statistics I came up with as I have both agent and doc. They kinda speak for themselves...


My 220 agent Steinberg (swap inferno boots..)
Killing Numiel - hp/ar setupped - add poison dmg = 178
1. You : 313 439 hp ( 156 719 hp/min ) ( Nanobots 42% Fling Shot 8% Regular 12% Critical 35% )
2M38sec kill time, true dpm=119 000 / min
FP doc a+b dots, perks, laser aim/grim reaper procs, 10 fling shots / AR ~2600
regular hit 1825, crit 3221, calculated +crit from equipment 29, crit hit % reality 62.



My 218 doctor Mirkka (swap inferno boots)
Killing Numiel - hp/nano setupped - add proj dmg = 0
1. You : 312 287 hp ( 156 143 hp/min ) ( Nanobots 63% Burst 7% Fling Shot 5% Regular 22% Critical 1% )

2M43sec kill time, true dpm =114 950 / min
a+b+c dots, perks, ubt proc, 19 fling shots, 10 burst / AR ~1400
regular hit 959, crit 1873, calculated + crit from equipment 0, crit hit % reality 2

Interesting how your dmg/min is that much higher than mine, 156k is MUCH different than my agent's 90k What am I doing wrong to have 90k/min if you're doing basically the same damage as I am? (Your regular hit is about 60 higher, and Crit is under 100 higher than me.) That's strange to me, I wasn't using DoTs, but I know for certain that Agent using DoTs does not make up 66k/min damage

Thinking about it, it might actually partially be the amount of time I take to pull, I like to make sure my pulls are clean, so I usually pull pretty far away. And since the dmg/min starts counting at the first DoT used to pull, that's what happens

[Marinegent]

To Marinesold, the idea of a 3 minute fight is an Agent solo'ing a mob for 3 minutes long, and it does happen quite often in Inferno solo'ing, and even to be perfectly honest about Inferno solo'ing, we 95% of the time don't even get a SINGLE Aimedshot in because of the way we have to pull those bosses, so I was being kind in adding a single AS into the equation.

Ahh, see i wasn't aware we were talking inf mobs, then again, i dont do alot of soloing so that doesnt come to mind.

If i do solo on my sold, i usually stick to RK mobs, like dynas and whatnot but those fights don't last 3 minutes.

[Perin]

I pulled it, she killed it.

Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Lyzor ( 308.645 / 78.120 / 112 / 4 / 3% / 3.375 )
2. Anim ( 4.431 / 1.080 / 0 / 0 / 0% / 211 )

Oh, and she got a Codex Clavis, which I've been killing Numiel for years to get, and she gets it on her first kill, doesn't that just suck? :P


And I just re-read Jonah's post, what's up with the "True DMP" ? Did your DD count hp/min differently?


Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Anim ( 310.687 / 108.360 / 83 / 36 / 43% / 4.610 )
2. Lyzor ( 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0% / 0 )

Pulled it and waited for the DoT to run out, reset DD, then attacked it. My crit % this time was 15% higher than the first Numiel I killed in this thread.


Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Lyzor ( 311.715 / 89.460 / 108 / 2 / 1% / 3.375 )
2. Anim ( 1.899 / 540 / 0 / 0 / 0% / 211 )

Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Lyzor ( 312.557 / 89.280 / 105 / 1 / 0% / 3.375 )
2. Anim ( 1.899 / 540 / 0 / 0 / 0% / 211 )

I been coaching her in between the spawns a little bit, talking about what she's been doing and how she's been casting/perking/etc, as you can see we raised her dmg/min to a good 90k /min which is still within the 21k difference between what I did and my calculations above

Creepy Spider, me:

Place. Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
1. Anim ( 312.760 / 114.420 / 74 / 32 / 43% / 8.376 )
2. Lyzor ( 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0% / 0 )


I've gotten a lot luckier today on crit % it seems, yesterday I couldn't break 30%

[Telperion]

I've said this for 2 years now (tho mostly ingame).

Interesting to see agents finally noticing the same..

Many of us have been saying this for a long time, including Perin herself before she took a break, but no one ever actually made the calculations.

Personnally, my damage output seems closer to Ebondevil's than to Anim's (with 2100 regular damage and, say, 3800 crits, SL procs always running when i'm soloing -Sickening ones-, and i use the DoTs every time my nanopool can afford it - which means every time i can either use a stim or use the Genius perk), but even with that, the difference isn't too big.
Clearly, we're a prof specialized in PvP, where we're good at in many aspects, but we're only average on all PvM aspects.

[Ober]

average on all PvM aspects.

Actually, that comment was quite interesting.

Maybe that's the way FC decided to balance this out?
Problem is, you still get unbalanced PVM because one strong point usually wins over jack of all trades (see traders).
Ok, multiple strong points and jack of the rest (advs) still seem to win the day pvm ofc.

That said, imo agents shouldn't be so puny (alltho situational v.good) in pvm dd.

Many of us have been saying this for a long time, including Perin herself before she took a break, but no one ever actually made the calculations.

Hehe, probably true, I haven't browsed this forum much before