Wish List Update: Aimed Shot

[Ebondevil]

12. Aimed Shot:

• The availability of AimedShot in PvM through repitition without concealment, or at least a similar attack.

The reuse of Aimed shot through repetition would be very nice, however I think it's unlikely to be honest and would make concealment significantly less useful. So overall I think an Extra attack, for Agents only that can be used at any time regardless of Aggro would be useful, though with a defence check and possibly not usable in PvP Situations, if it's not usable at any time then it's no use for soloing and we get left with slow perks and Fling shot for our DD.

• Reducing the ability by other professions to execute high or successful AimedShots. That or an alltogether removal from other professions.

I'm of the personal opinion that Aimed shot should be fixed so that it requires the person to be concealed for it to be used in PvP, this would have the effect of removing it from any profession that just hotswaps to the weapon without putting some effort into using it, at the same time, the addition of the new attack mentioned above, if usable in PvP, would give agents the ability to still gain a benefit from Aimed shot while not concealed in PvP situations.

• An increase to the current 13k cap.

An Increase to the cap would be nice or, preferably, a removal of caps altogether for Aimed Shot, Full Auto and Burst, the caps serve no real purpose in PvP as far as I'm aware and they only go to reduce effectiveness of those specials in PvM.

[Wakizaka]

I would personally prefer the route of a persistent Concealment:Perception check whenever you hit the AS button regardless of PvM or PvP. This will have the 'unfortunate' side-effect of meaning anyone who maxes perception can ensure that all but the ardent users of conceal don't get an AS in. It would in effect render alot of peoples AS insignificant (as they cannot use it) but would mean that actually IP'ing Conceal would actually have an effect on PvP (as would perception ofc)

[Racatti]

AS from most ppl have been rendered insignificant indeed, those who still rely on it received an LE-gun to go with it as well.

[Cheree]

some kind of reusable aimshot in pvm would help towards fixing agent damage.

[ArienSky]

I would personally prefer the route of a persistent Concealment:Perception check whenever you hit the AS button regardless of PvM or PvP. This will have the 'unfortunate' side-effect of meaning anyone who maxes perception can ensure that all but the ardent users of conceal don't get an AS in. It would in effect render alot of peoples AS insignificant (as they cannot use it) but would mean that actually IP'ing Conceal would actually have an effect on PvP (as would perception ofc)

I prefer that solution too. It really is in the spirit of AO; using the various skills already in play and at teh same time give some way to "resist" it.

I disagree with the original "The availability of AimedShot in PvM through repitition without concealment, or at least a similar attack."
Instead of being able to AS multiple times without sneaking, agents should be able to re-sneak in the fight and AS again.

It more intuitive that way.
Of cause re-sneaking should be harder than just concealing, as you have the enemy's attention, but it should also break mob agro.

[Wakizaka]

Of cause re-sneaking should be harder than just concealing, as you have the enemy's attention, but it should also break mob agro.

What about all those nerfy mobs with massive out of fight heal delta ?

[Ebondevil]

I disagree with the original "The availability of AimedShot in PvM through repitition without concealment, or at least a similar attack."
Instead of being able to AS multiple times without sneaking, agents should be able to re-sneak in the fight and AS again.

It more intuitive that way.
Of cause re-sneaking should be harder than just concealing, as you have the enemy's attention, but it should also break mob agro.

As Wakizaka has said, out of fight mobs tend to have rather high Heal Deltas, and so re-concealing to break the fight and reuse Aimed Shot would have drawbacks, I also think giving Aimed Shot itself a defence check, eg Concealment Vs. Perception, and removing the need for hiding would reduce the benefits of Concealment, it would also make it easier for other professions to use it.

Which is why I think:

• Aimed Shot should only be usable from concealment, in PvP and in PvM.
• The damage cap of 13k removed so it's possible to use Aimed Shot to it's fullest extent.
• A new Agent only special should be added to the Agent toolset, like Backstab is only for Shades/Adventurers, a special that can be used without hiding mid fight with similar mechanics to Aimed Shot, with either: Aimed Shot, Concealment or a combination of the two as an Attack skill, and with Perception as a defence against it.

That would mean that an Agent sneaks into position to start the fight initially to get of the devastating Aimed Shot for which there is no defence against, and follows it up with attacks that can be similarly devastating, but for which the mob/player can defend themselves against.

This would reduce the overall effect Aimed Shot has on PvP, preventing other professions from hot-swapping to Aimed Shot weapons, while not significantly reducing the Agents toolset or ability to perform Aimed Shot in PvP, while in PvM it would give Agents a useful High damage attack that can be used without the need to break aggro or stop fighting.

However, to prevent Agents from starting an Alpha with both Aimed Shot and the new special, both should lock Aimed Shot skill for the same length of time, so the Agent can use one or the other, not both.

[Berserkmc]

As Wakizaka has said, out of fight mobs tend to have rather high Heal Deltas, and so re-concealing to break the fight and reuse Aimed Shot would have drawbacks, I also think giving Aimed Shot itself a defence check, eg Concealment Vs. Perception, and removing the need for hiding would reduce the benefits of Concealment, it would also make it easier for other professions to use it.

Which is why I think:

• Aimed Shot should only be usable from concealment, in PvP and in PvM.
• The damage cap of 13k removed so it's possible to use Aimed Shot to it's fullest extent.
• A new Agent only special should be added to the Agent toolset, like Backstab is only for Shades/Adventurers, a special that can be used without hiding mid fight with similar mechanics to Aimed Shot, with either: Aimed Shot, Concealment or a combination of the two as an Attack skill, and with Perception as a defence against it.

That would mean that an Agent sneaks into position to start the fight initially to get of the devastating Aimed Shot for which there is no defence against, and follows it up with attacks that can be similarly devastating, but for which the mob/player can defend themselves against.

This would reduce the overall effect Aimed Shot has on PvP, preventing other professions from hot-swapping to Aimed Shot weapons, while not significantly reducing the Agents toolset or ability to perform Aimed Shot in PvP, while in PvM it would give Agents a useful High damage attack that can be used without the need to break aggro or stop fighting.

However, to prevent Agents from starting an Alpha with both Aimed Shot and the new special, both should lock Aimed Shot skill for the same length of time, so the Agent can use one or the other, not both.

Removing cap is stupid until mathematic is stay same. Before we get PvP mechanic changed, i do 6300 AS on mech, which is 630000 of damage. Even in PvM on mobs have 99% reflect i do AS around 2k, so it's 200000 damage(I think 600k+ is possible too, but have no time to test it). So it will be too overpowered and you cant lose aggro until you die or your target die. If i have time, i'm try to test it more, but not sure due to game mechanic changed.

Using AS in PvP only in conceal also stupid because we cant reconceal in PvP wihle in fight and have only this special atatck as main damage source of profession. So it just finish our profession in PvP with all other changes we already have. Or this changes possibly when we got our perks changed also.

Concealment vs Perception check is not bad idea, but until some mobs have too much perception even for us(AS scout alien or Ground Chief Aune anyone?).

There is some question about AS here:

1. When we need to AS mob multiple times?
On ordinary mobs - no, they mostly die too fast both solo and team. But some inf miss mobs have a chance.
On low-hp bosses - no, see above.
On mid-hp bosses - yes, but only in solo, in teams they die too fast. In case of OD wars even faster.
On high-end bosses - yes, but they have too many perception to do AS on them. If i can't AS them now, then i cant do same even with Concealment : Perception check is added. Mostly of these bosses not soloable.

2. Why we can't do AS in PvM multiple times? Just game mechanics, we are in aggro list = get permadetected by mob(i think even if we use our detaunts we still in aggro list with 0 aggro, so can't do AS). I have much times to getting aggro and unsneaked, while before this do some damage on mob then conceal.

How to change this:
A. Temp remove aggro when we reconceal in mid-fight, then get it back if we do multiple AS. Or change mechanics somewhat, so we can use AS not once.
B. Just remove aggro, when we reconcealing. Link it to agent(and maybe to Shade and Sneak Attack pair too) profession, so other can't do same.
C. Add a nanoprogram/perk with short recharge, that can help us reconceal in fight nd remove all aggro on you from target. Maybe add check to be not being attacked to use that action.
D. Add a nanoprogram/perk with long or medium recharge(or maybe with negative effect after it done), that can help us reconceal and drop any hostile action from attackers. It will boost our survivability.
E. Combine C and D and add both.
F. Change game mechanics in part of detecting concealed peoples.

Sorry for my english, it's suck sometimes, never learn it...

[Tethien]

1. I still would like the option to reconceal, but not so much as an option to AS again but rather as a means of escape.

I would still stick to the concept:
- when trying to reconceal in combat, your concealment skill temporarily is reduced by 250 points.
- then your concealment skill is checked against the perception of anybody fighting you.
- if all checks are successful, you are taken out of combat and get hidden.
- concealment would recover with similar speed as skills recover after dying.

This would allow to reconceal, would actually make high concealment worth having and would still restrict how often you can use it. Due to reasons mentioned above, i don't see it as an offensive tool, though.


2. I don't think that getting another attack skill would solve the problem.

Of course, it would be "nice to have", but i very much doubt we would get it. Also, i am rather positive, if we'd get a new attack skill, it would just take a year and people would again ask for being able to AS several times in PvE. Thus if i was FC, i would not put any more thought and even less work into it.


3. I like the idea of Wakizaka to make perception the defensive skill against AS.

Of course, it would just give notorious evaders, especially Adventurers and Fixers, the chance to now also avoid this attack since they have quite low costs for perception and/or massive buffs on it.

I have not made any calculation yet how much perception either of those can get, but perception also is a rather low-cost skill for an Agent. While my symbs/implants are not all state of the art and not optimised for perception, i still would estimate that few people would run around with significally over 2k perception (with Stare of Cerberus), while an Agent of same level can easily have 2.8k or more of concealment. (Clan Shadowbreed might then be a short-time anti-AS-defense. )

While i thus see only a limited reduction on power for us supposedly way too powerful Agents, several of the new AS-without-concealment professions (aka MP orTrader) would suffer a lot of this change. Since it seems like AS was "the fix" for their problems in PvP, i dare to assume that a change to counteract this is not likely to come. But while i consider it unlikely that this could come, i would not complain about it, would it happen.

[Yyollanda]

i'm of the opinion that we need to be made real marksman again, adding a new special unique to agents (equivalent to backstab) is probably not gonna happen anytime soon, i just get the impression that a skill engine change like that is really not likely to happen.

however, a good first step to reclaiming our supposed "top ranged damage dealer" position would be something simple like:

Nano Crystal : Unexpected Ultimatum (i dunno, sounded fun in my head)

Requirements (level 210...level being the only requirement)

+160 to Rifle
+50 Sneak Attack (lol)
+50% chance to Proc "Sniper's Ultimatum"
Effect:

(shows as hostile with 4hr timer)

The agent has learned from their experiences as a career marksman, being able to hit critical organs and vital spots has become almost second nature to them.

"Sniper's Ultimatum"
50% chance to strike for an additional 13'000 projectile damage if target = NPC

-----

i dunno, it needs to be PVM/NPC damage mods only, in PvP apparently we are the best of the best

we need a boost, and a nanobased one seems the easiest and most likely method of adding Conditional PVM only damage that won't affect PVP

suggestions or mods are welcome

[Cyberleet]

Lets AS again somehow in pvm or increase damage cap.

I think giving it a defense check would overpower lovechilds since as for now it goes through.
If adding defense checks could be done with making agents stand out in it and have it always land (when not blocked) for agents it could work.

It's a very good, if not best, reliable damage in group-pvp overall atm.

[Unrealshadow]

Lets AS again somehow in pvm or increase damage cap.

I think giving it a defense check would overpower lovechilds since as for now it goes through.
If adding defense checks could be done with making agents stand out in it and have it always land (when not blocked) for agents it could work.

It's a very good, if not best, reliable damage in group-pvp overall atm.

I have to agree with Monique here. Adding defensive checks to AS is a bad idea imo.

[Wakizaka]

I have to agree with Monique here. Adding defensive checks to AS is a bad idea imo.

Considering in PvM it already goes through a def check it wouldn't be adding anything that wasn't already there....

[ArienSky]

Thank you for your quick and constructive replies

What about all those nerfy mobs with massive out of fight heal delta ?

Transcendent Frenzy Embodiment or a team mate would prevent that.
Also bailing out and "live to fight another fight" is better than dieing and getting rezz-sick and having to re-buff to me. Then we can try taking on great challenges, and if we are failing we can choose to stop, rather than getting killed.

It indeed should be possible to hide from most bosses, so Agents are more likely to survive getting agro. That way our playstyle could become "all out attack"-spike damage, massive damage as mentioned in the SL dev talk, and still be able to survive, as we have a tool against getting killed (re-concealing).

As it is now we limit our damage in the start, to avoid agro.

Yes; I talk about PvM

As Wakizaka has said, out of fight mobs tend to have rather high Heal Deltas, and so re-concealing to break the fight and reuse Aimed Shot would have drawbacks,

I also think giving Aimed Shot itself a defence check, eg Concealment Vs. Perception, and removing the need for hiding would reduce the benefits of Concealment, it would also make it easier for other professions to use it.

Which is why I think:

• Aimed Shot should only be usable from concealment, in PvP and in PvM.
• The damage cap of 13k removed so it's possible to use Aimed Shot to it's fullest extent.
• A new Agent only special should be added to the Agent toolset, like Backstab is only for Shades/Adventurers, a special that can be used without hiding mid fight with similar mechanics to Aimed Shot, with either: Aimed Shot, Concealment or a combination of the two as an Attack skill, and with Perception as a defence against it.

That would mean that an Agent sneaks into position to start the fight initially to get of the devastating Aimed Shot for which there is no defence against, and follows it up with attacks that can be similarly devastating, but for which the mob/player can defend themselves against.

This would reduce the overall effect Aimed Shot has on PvP, preventing other professions from hot-swapping to Aimed Shot weapons, while not significantly reducing the Agents toolset or ability to perform Aimed Shot in PvP, while in PvM it would give Agents a useful High damage attack that can be used without the need to break aggro or stop fighting.

However, to prevent Agents from starting an Alpha with both Aimed Shot and the new special, both should lock Aimed Shot skill for the same length of time, so the Agent can use one or the other, not both.

Sure this is a wishlist, but I think we are more likely to get something that is easy to implement (modify AS) than something totally new, like a new attack special.

so sacrificing AS to become something everyone can do, to get a new special attack is doable and the most considerate regarding to other professions, but I also think it is less likely to happen, and it is more likely to be interpreted as an "agents wants AS to be used outside of concealment for everyone" and, skipping the fact that the request is a new special.

To the underlined bit of the quote:
I would rather fix AS than invent something new; enhance the use of concealment in AS(re-conceal-ability), as that is one of the places we are better than other professions, with respect to gear and nanoes. It is indeed one of the things to make us special; where other professions can not perform as well.
What I miss is our perception ability though. So agents are both stealthy and perceptive of there surroundings.

Hence I do not like the argument "it would also make it easier for other professions to use it" regarding to AS. This is the Agent wishlist, to make the Agent special, I would not like to waste our wishes on something that can be mis-interpreted to help all other professions.

I see our tie with the shady shades and would of cause not mind to share re-conceal-ability with them, but I don't want to spend wishes making our strong points(concealment) weaker and enhancing the other professions(the event that they remove concealment from AS, but does not give us a new special).

Asking the designers to "come up with something new and good" is vague and time consuming for them, and more so; what if we do not like the new ting? then we have used our wish/influence for something little usefull and have nerfed AS to a common attack.
I like clear and concrete wishes better than wishes that can be perverted by the genies/greenies granting us our wishes.

If a new special indeed is our wish, then it is important to point out that the bullet-point list is not "pick one of three", but "all together or nothing"

Clearing agro is ingame
Consealment VS Perception check is ingame

So both re-conceal-ability and the new special are doable ingame.
As mentioned I would indeed like the combination of a new special and re-conceal-ability. But I think it is more likely that AS gets modified to contain re-conceal-ability.

Kind regards Ariensky

[Unrealshadow]

Considering in PvM it already goes through a def check it wouldn't be adding anything that wasn't already there....

Ah perhaps we are talking about two different checks. I was speaking about being able to miss with it (due to Acrobat etc..)

[Wakizaka]

Ah perhaps we are talking about two different checks. I was speaking about being able to miss with it (due to Acrobat etc..)

I was talking about the inability to use AS if the Mob has enough perception, hence the current PvM Def Check is just Concealment vs Perception + Hate List

[Spart]

Lets AS again somehow in pvm or increase damage cap.

Bump for 35k FA and AS damage caps! \o/