Mine Feedback (newer version)

[zartosht]

I'll be watching the engineer forums.

Run away!!! Panic! Panic!

/me *faints*


Edit: let's discuss the grenade concepts here while we are at it so our Professionals can delete posts from a certain MP and a certain Sold when they come here.

[Technogen]

Ok, Lets see, he said;

No grenades (or replacing mines with grenades anyways)

1 mine
4 min lockout.

___________________________________________

1 mine does not sound good to me, Nick said 4 is to many, so 2 mines with a 4 min lock out?

MEANS Or Means though Uaint, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR MORE THAN 1 MINE? Or will the mechanic only let us do 1 mine?

IF the mechanic only lets us do 1 mine, then make the timer 3 min, that should let it go off by then as we will use it when under attack.

WHAT is the Cast time? Please do not tell me you are going to make it 30s!

Drop us some more info on these "cast requirements and such please" We cant debate these with out knowing about them.

[Berael]

As I posted in the friday with means thread:

If these are implemented they need to actually be a deterrent for people. If, given the current tool set, these mines would be rendered ineffective, they will never be used by the engineer community. All mines need to have enough AR to hit all but the highest evade defenders when they go off, or people will just send in the fixers for a run through an area to set off all the mines and nobody will use them. Damage mines need to have enough damage that they will make a sufficient dent in the health of high health combatants, or at least knock them back enough to get people ready to deal with them. Snare mines need to have a enough enough snare so that it actually will slow people down. Nanodrain mines need to effectively disable casting professions or force them to make hard decisions about how they will spend their remaining nanopoints.

If these do not function as a major deterrent for people than they wont be used, period. This was seen with the anti-orbital towers and the Nemesis line of nanos.

[Snakebite]

Are these mines just going to dissapear if and when the Engi dies? Or will they have a life expectancy not related to the Engis wellbeing?

[lugoman]

Damage mines need to have enough damage that they will make a sufficient dent in the health of high health combatants, or at least knock them back enough to get people ready to deal with them. Snare mines need to have a enough enough snare so that it actually will slow people down. Nanodrain mines need to effectively disable casting professions or force them to make hard decisions about how they will spend their remaining nanopoints.

If these do not function as a major deterrent for people than they wont be used, period. This was seen with the anti-orbital towers and the Nemesis line of nanos.

I would agree with you if mines were the main part of your toolset, but they arent.

[Berael]

I would agree with you if mines were the main part of your toolset, but they arent.

They -are- being given to us. I'd rather not have something be given to -any- profession that was profoundly ineffective.

[zartosht]

Question for Means:

In general, how are these mines going to benefit us, the engineers, directly? Will they, for instance, increase our ability to kill people by counting the damage they do to our credit, provided that they do enough damage?

You say that we should have a defensive role and it is all fine and dandy. But our current trouble is that we can defend ourselves pretty much reasonably but we can't kill anybody. So adding more defense mechanisms to our toolset does not really seem like a step in the good direction.

[Uaintseenme]

I see these new mines as a tactical and defensive addition to our toolset to aid your own faction on BS, while maybe not giving a huge benefit directly to the engineer the abbility to lay a "mine field" across one of the entrances to M would be a nice advantage for the faction controlling and defending that CP.

I do however think that 1 mine at a time is insufficient to accomplish this and would like to know the activation radius of these mines.

[Technogen]

Uaintdeadyet: well if its only one at a time that will suck, if its one of each at a time, then that means 3 total and i think thats perfect

[bungerman]

I do however think that 1 mine at a time is insufficient to accomplish this and would like to know the activation radius of these mines.

I agree whole-heartedly, if it's one mine it better have one hell of a bang (which ever bang it may be) or I don't see a problem of more than 1 mine with a little less bang each, considering how many are given. The problem with one mine: The BS is fairly large, tower wars are even larger. What are the odds that a player is going to chose the same place you chose to run over in what was it, 3 minutes? (not even mentioned how everyone is just going to be jumping around everywhere now )

Means look at APF, the one with the snare mines in the beginning. Why did that designer (was it you? ) decide to put mines all over the place and not just 1 mine with a huge AoE? I would suspect he wanted many people to be snared and not just the first random fast people into the zone to set off the 1 big AoE mine and get snared, yet leave the remaining raid force unscathed.

Is this only feedback on the parameters of the mine(s), or the content ie nanodrain, stun etc of the mines?

[IHaveHugeNick]

Anything beyond 2 mines at a time will be largely overpowered, which is one of the reasons why i didnt want mines at all, because what for one will be ivery nsufficient, for two or more Engineers will raise to absurd.

[bungerman]

Anything beyond 2 mines at a time will be largely overpowered, which is one of the reasons why i didnt want mines at all, because what for one will be ivery nsufficient, for two or more Engineers will raise to absurd.

How exactly will 3 mines be more overpowered than 2? If they lower the effect accordingly to how many mines they decide on 50 % the strength of the original one mine or 33 % if given three mines, the only thing that would chdnge is the probability of them being stepped on. Unless they gave us too many and the effects become worthless.

[IHaveHugeNick]

How exactly will 3 mines be more overpowered than 2? If they lower the effect accordingly to how many mines they decide on 50 % the strength of the original one mine or 33 % if given three mines, the only thing that would chdnge is the probability of them being stepped on. Unless they gave us too many and the effects become worthless.

Because you need to consider the possibility of more then one Engineer on Battlestation? Even assuming 5 meter activation meter, 3 mines are enough to completely block any teleporter. Or to block each of the two exit routes from spawn? Like it or not, 1 may seem not enough, 2 is a lot, and 3 is insane.

Mines reducing each other effect is a horrible idea, so now not only we will snare each other's pets, not only debuff each other's reflect, not only decrease our relative killing power with stupid 7x team blockers (and need i point out all of these things can be done while afk), but now our mines we'll be competing with each other?

Fictional ingame dialogue: hey dude, move your mines elsewhere, i was in this spot first.

Seriously.

Now, i am perfectly fine with having a defensive role and all, but why of why main Funcom's idea for defensive duties is that player performing them, can spend most of the time in the other room, watching TV?

I stand by my idea, give access to mines to anyone who sits in a Mech. These guys dont have anything to do anyway, i'm sure it will be a welcome change, and will actually get widely used, unlike with us.

[IHaveHugeNick]

As for Engineers, it might be my personal vision thing, but i consider this another placeholder content, yet another addition that is neither much fun nor much useful for us, but will be widely cried about and considered god knows how good by rest of community.

And fun part being, my sense of balance doesnt even allow me to try haggle for more power for these things with honest conscience. With a way how Battlestation is constructed, those will be easily overpowered ,i dont see us getting any more then 1 per person.

[Xyphos]

if he's watching us here, then he'll need a link back to his post for my feedback.

http://forums.anarchyonline.com/show...4&postcount=72

[bungerman]

Nick you are certainly entitled to your opinion but the fact of the matter is this is what we are going to get so instead of fighting against it which will do no good except score some forum points, we need to figure out how we can make it worthy of using.

I still don't understand how you say they will be overpowered, they will only be overpowered if the effects and amounts they give them are. Our 1 hypothetical mine is going to have to be pretty powerful because if not, people are just going to laugh off the effects and it WILL end up being another worthless addition. Thats why we need to take advantage of this feedback opportunity

Because you need to consider the possibility of more then one Engineer on Battlestation? Even assuming 5 meter activation meter, 3 mines are enough to completely block any teleporter. Or to block each of the two exit routes from spawn? Like it or not, 1 may seem not enough, 2 is a lot, and 3 is insane.

what is the difference between our mines snaring people as they come out of a lift and a fixer waiting on the other side to AoE snare them? What we need to be discussing are the checks (if there are any) of the mines etc and what will make them worth using, not random make believe scenarios.

And the statement about more than 1 engineer on bs, priceless! I don't see what's wrong with more engineers on bs.

But in all seriousness, about the "stealing someone's mine spot" I don't hear people bickering about who put down their turret first and that they won't get as many kills.

Mines reducing each other effect is a horrible idea, so now not only we will snare each other's pets, not only debuff each other's reflect, not only decrease our relative killing power with stupid 7x team blockers (and need i point out all of these things can be done while afk), but now our mines we'll be competing with each other?

not sure what you mean here, the reduction I was talking about was if we got more than one mine they could reduce their power thus not being overpowered if we got more than 1.

Now, i am perfectly fine with having a defensive role and all, but why of why main Funcom's idea for defensive duties is that player performing them, can spend most of the time in the other room, watching TV?

I stand by my idea, give access to mines to anyone who sits in a Mech. These guys dont have anything to do anyway, i'm sure it will be a welcome change, and will actually get widely used, unlike with us.

I can't answer that first part, I agree, but we are getting these it seems whether we like it or not so the best thing we can do is express how best to implement them so that we DO want to use them.

[sultryvoltron]

I suggested something like engi mines a while ago on some GS forum.

Anyways, 2 at a time per engi, nice sized area to trigger it (5 meters).

Health mines... do a nice amount of damage, at the very least 30% hp, and then hit em with a DoT (shrapnel duh).

Nanodrain mine... no opinion. Just, like Bereal said, a significant hit.

Knockback mine... Send em flying a huge distance. Probably will be the least used mine.

Snare mine... percent based snare. 20% minimum. Enough said.

All of these need to be AoE effects, and only need to be triggered by someone getting too close.

Make them spottable maybe? Perhaps even disarmable via quite a long wait. And NO def check. You step on a mine, you die. Period. The def check is not stepping on them.

As for mines blocking off a teleporter completely... Well, when you set down a mine, and it blows up, the mine is gone. So, sure 3 mines may block the way for the first unlucky fellow to pop through, but the rest will be fine since the mines are gone. But, make sure and let the engi know when it blows up so they know they can place a new one.


P.S. Maybe we are all getting these new knockback/fear tools because they are going to work on a drastic update for BS that involves more strategy, and revolves more around significant goals, rather than making kills. Thus, an engi defensive mine could be invaluable to such a PvP environment. (CTF anyone?)

[bungerman]

we need a blind mine to make up for our blind nano not working in pvp.

[Rewo]

we need a blind mine to make up for our blind nano not working in pvp.

Offensive auras are in big need of an update. I'd rather not see that come in the form of these mines.

[Uaintseenme]

Changed thread title so it actualy gets looked at, rather than ignored as yet another engineer, bile filled rant-fest.



I also removed all off topic posts, since The Dark lord of Cake is watching, I need to make it atleast look like i do *some* work around here.