Regarding Weapon Damage Calculation

[monkier]

I like to be as accurate as possible when i'm comparing one thing to another, and often I find myself comparing weapons. So- i'd like to make sure what I understand to be correct.
Here are the assumptions i've been working with:

- There is a 3% base chance to crit
- Crit chance is somehow affected by attack rating vs the target's defense (hence high crit chance on backyard leets) WTB info on this mystical formula.
- If you have less than 1000 attack rating, for every 400 attack rating you have your listed weapon's damage is doubled (100-200 weapon is 250-500 at 1000 attack rating)
- Above 1000 attack rating the formula is profession speciifc, but for most profs it is 1600 attack rating for each additional damage doubling (so a 100-200 weapon is 350-700 at 2600 attack rating) WTB more info on what this is for each class
- +damage is applied after everything, so +1 damage is literally +1 damage regardless of scenario
- dual wielding is exactly 1.2 times faster than single wielding, and you alternate hits between weapons- so a twohander has to have 1.2 times the average damage of both onehanders (so, a 100-200 onehander and a 200-300 onehander will do the same damage as a 180-300 twohander).
-Under 10,000 AC you lose 1 max damage after all calculations per every 10 ac the target has (So if youd normally hit for 300-800, and the target has 3000 AC, you do 300-500 damage). Above 10,000 AC the formula is reduced somehow but i've no idea how (WTB info please)

Are my assumptions correct? Some of them i've researched a fair bit, some of them I just came up with, but they seem accurate. Are they?

[Forek]

Most of your assumptions are correct, but there's a couple that aren't quite right.

- If you have less than 1000 attack rating, for every 400 attack rating you have your listed weapon's damage is doubled (100-200 weapon is 250-500 at 1000 attack rating)

I think you're doing it right, but what you said isn't what you're doing. It doesn't double every 400, rather you multiply by 1 plus the AR divided by 400.

- Above 1000 attack rating the formula is profession speciifc, but for most profs it is 1600 attack rating for each additional damage doubling (so a 100-200 weapon is 350-700 at 2600 attack rating) WTB more info on what this is for each class

This one is very odd, it's not a simple relationship like that. I seem to remember someone doing a load of tests and finding the factor varied depending on your AR.

- dual wielding is exactly 1.2 times faster than single wielding, and you alternate hits between weapons- so a twohander has to have 1.2 times the average damage of both onehanders (so, a 100-200 onehander and a 200-300 onehander will do the same damage as a 180-300 twohander).

This one I think you're pretty far off. For each weapon, it's attack speed effectively becomes the sum of the two attack speeds, recharge remains unchanged.

So with two 1/1 weapons, would be like firing two 2/1 weapons. That means you hit twice in 3 second, which is 1.33x faster. If you had say a 1/1 weapon and a 2/3 weapon though you would have a 3/1 weapon and a 3/3 weapon. So in 12 seconds you would hit 3 times with the 1/1 weapon and 2 times with the 2/3 weapon.

-Under 10,000 AC you lose 1 max damage after all calculations per every 10 ac the target has (So if youd normally hit for 300-800, and the target has 3000 AC, you do 300-500 damage). Above 10,000 AC the formula is reduced somehow but i've no idea how (WTB info please)

Edit: Ignore me about ACs!

[Xyphos]

Oh, right... I've been meaning to ask about this topic for obvious reasons...
/bookmarked

[Leamartini]

For AR above 1k it seemed that you could approximate it as being ~30% effective for "combat" professions (soldier, enfo, ...) and ~15% for "support" professions (crat, doc, ...).

And about AC, the OP is right. AC are first substracted from max damage and then damage is rolled between min and new max. It's nukes that first roll for damage value, then substracts AC (and cap it at min damage, making most nukes hit for min on decent AC)

[Forek]

For AR above 1k it seemed that you could approximate it as being ~30% effective for "combat" professions (soldier, enfo, ...) and ~15% for "support" professions (crat, doc, ...).

And about AC, the OP is right. AC are first substracted from max damage and then damage is rolled between min and new max. It's nukes that first roll for damage value, then substracts AC (and cap it at min damage, making most nukes hit for min on decent AC)

He's right, my mistake. Sorry about that

[erozc]

AMS multiplier testing on advy:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=232999

How damage is affected is not calculated using a simple formula it would seem.

[Forek]

AMS multiplier testing on advy:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=232999

How damage is affected is not calculated using a simple formula it would seem.

That was the one I was looking for!

[erozc]

Bear in mind it apparently works different for other professions.

[Otinsainpas]

this is so wrong i don't know where to start..

[Infinite0]

3% Base Crit chance no longer exists.

[Xyphos]

3% Base Crit chance no longer exists.

I'm not calling you a liar,
but it would be nice to have a link to your claims.
I don't remember the 3% going anywhere...

[Infinite0]

They removed it in one of the patches a while ago. It was removed around 2008 alongside the 3% Base miss chance that used to cause a 25 bullet FA to completely miss. If you want to find it, search for old patchnotes and its there somewhere.

[Gridpain]

They removed it in one of the patches a while ago. It was removed around 2008 alongside the 3% Base miss chance that used to cause a 25 bullet FA to completely miss. If you want to find it, search for old patchnotes and its there somewhere.

it was the 3% automatic hit that was said to be removed at the same time the 3% miss were removed. (and the 3% fumble)

[Infinite0]

umm what is an automatic hit?

[Azza]

umm what is an automatic hit?

He's referring to the fact that regardless of how low your AR was (level 1 versus Ian Warr), you'd always have at least a 3% chance to hit before the change.

[Otinsainpas]

- Crit chance is somehow affected by attack rating vs the target's defense (hence high crit chance on backyard leets) WTB info on this mystical formula.[/QUOTE]

backyardleet logic here..

1500AR =100% crit
15AR = 1%

here is your formula!
it must be true because backyardleet logic never fails. crits cant by any possible means be affected anything other but every 15AR.

[Xyphos]

- Crit chance is somehow affected by attack rating vs the target's defense (hence high crit chance on backyard leets) WTB info on this mystical formula.

backyardleet logic here..

1500AR =100% crit
15AR = 1%

here is your formula!
it must be true because backyardleet logic never fails. crits cant by any possible means be affected anything other but every 15AR.

leet logic never fails to those who compensate for the fact that it is flawed.

leets have some of the lowest evades/defense in game.

evade skills add an innate critical resistance somehow (formula unknown)
which is why with 1500 AR you'll 100% crit a leet but not a higher level mob like a mantis

[Otinsainpas]

leet logic never fails to those who compensate for the fact that it is flawed.

leets have some of the lowest evades/defense in game.

evade skills add an innate critical resistance somehow (formula unknown)
which is why with 1500 AR you'll 100% crit a leet but not a higher level mob like a mantis

if evades reduces the crit%.. but that doesn't mean 15AR would still not increase your crit by 1%

and here comes the magic part..
base_crit + AR_crit - def_crit .. (+stuff) = total_crit
not critting 100% to mantis with 1500AR doenst mean anything

i will not test how AR effects crit because i dont simply think it has any effect.
if i find any toon critting more than i do with more AR(ie not +self-crit nanos), then perhaps, but havent seen anyone to come close and i run very low with AR usually.. there must be players with significantly more AR than me..

[Original]

Well as for dual wielding, with same speed weapons with same attack and recharge (e.g. 1/1 1.4/1.4 2/2 weapons) you hit 1.33333...x faster, not 1.2. With varying speeds and attacks/recharges it's not so simple. And yes it appears crit chance is affected by the ratio of AR vs defense or just difference in these, the most obvious being AAD draining in low title levels where people dont have IP for evades on enforcers/soldiers it results in 100% crit chance even without any crit modifiers.

[Xenotric]

There is definitely a crit variance between AR and target defense.

I say defense because it also includes AC, for example if you had max evades but no AC you'll be critted lots when you get hit (hence why GA fixers take huge damage when they do get hit)

On the flipside if you have maxed AC but no evades you'll get critted lots as well.

Of course its not going to be a simple x amount of AR = x amount of crit or even the other way around, its definitely a calculation on the difference, with a small difference resulting in no gain but a huge difference resulting in a practically 100% crit rate.