Class choice

[BottingWorks]

So having recently returned to AO I've disovered that due to obviously dwindling player numbers, SOLO STYLEZ. Is the way to play now. ;D Having an Eng has also brought to light the fact that many classes are outside buff dependant, to an extent. So my question is;

Which classes require no outside buffs or require buffs that are very easy to obtain?

I'll continue on with my Engineer, as I'm not just going to quit a toon because I can't have a OE bot, but still would be useful to know what my next roll should be.

Thanks!

[Awikun]

There are 2 answers to your question
1- all
2 - none

I ll explain what I mean:
1- every class benefits from outside buffs like HoT, Ess, RRFE, PNH Mohams etc.......
Depending on your set up and level every character loves mohams from MP.
However for low level engie or crat mohams (+wrangle) = high level pet that makes that character very strong. While for ma, adv or shade it only gives bit better profesion buffs and/or heals.

2- with good set up character and especially with good built twinks outside buffs are not important (some twinks are even built for self buffs duels only)

As for your character (Engie) at low levels you will want to find MP for mochams every single time you cast your robot, but when you reach around level 130-160 (depending on your set up) you ll be able to cast highest robot and next robot nanos will be level locked and the need to find MP will dissappear.

[Speedytrox]

Well, I kinda agree with the post Awikun made, but if you are willing to update your settup often enough i'd say MA's really do good on soloing. As low lvl MA, you have decent heal + Red dawn = CH.

Then when you reach 60ish and get on some nice imps, and maybe putt on some nice armor aswell (pred, ofab, Cm/strong anything really, a mix is also nice. Pred circlet is very good for MA's) you will start to see the evades really coming in handy. Now you will still have a good healing from Red dawn and your proffession heal, but for soloing you will be more depending on evades.

for lvl 60-100 you should be decent if you did a good update at lvl 60ish. After that it's just more depending on how much money/time you want to spend on imps/symbs and armor.

Whatever proffession you choose: Good Luck, and remember to pick something you enjoy playing.

[Mireiawen]

MP can be pretty self relying, you got the pets working so having rrfe/behe/etc is not that big deal, those are more for the situations your pets start taking their smoke breaks and don't hold agro.

You also get the nanoskills buffs yourself, so after few levels you won't even need anyone else for those, and you can cast some nanos to get higher pets even when there's nobody out to hand mochs.

[Polaria]

MP can be pretty self relying, you got the pets working so having rrfe/behe/etc is not that big deal, those are more for the situations your pets start taking their smoke breaks and don't hold agro.

You also get the nanoskills buffs yourself, so after few levels you won't even need anyone else for those, and you can cast some nanos to get higher pets even when there's nobody out to hand mochs.

This ^^

MPs are IMO the most self-reliant class in the game. They are also excellent soloers, at least, until they hit Inferno and mobs start doing more damage than your healpet can keep up with.

[Lazy]

advies are probably THE most self-reliant class. followed closely by docs. i think ma and keeper are a close 3rd.


dont listen to the people saying "mp". pet classes are EXTREMELY osb-reliant for the first 4 tl's to get their pets out. especially as a new player without the bank to properly gear up.

[drainbamage]

crat

anything you can't kill (which isn't much) you can root/calm and avoid

[Psikie]

advies are probably THE most self-reliant class. followed closely by docs. i think ma and keeper are a close 3rd.


dont listen to the people saying "mp". pet classes are EXTREMELY osb-reliant for the first 4 tl's to get their pets out. especially as a new player without the bank to properly gear up.

MP, NT, Keep in that order. Advy/Doc still req a LOT of outside help to get equiped with gear/nanos, and outside buffs to cast them.

MP's ARE the nano buffing class and at your lower lvls are quite easily equal to a 2-3 man team with pets. Being able to blitz nanos for higher lvl pets is heaven sent. No real required equipment to twink other than implants, easy to mission pets, miys armor and creation nanos make MP up to tl6 super easy mode.

NT's follow similar ease just by being a calming class, they only need OSB for top nukes. But not a requirement with calming or root-nuke techniques.

Keepers with passive self healing ability and passive evades and the bulk of decent weaponry being free- frost scythe/FBR/s7/khione or random from LE/AI dailies keepers are extrememly cost friendly as well.

[Lazy]

MP, NT, Keep in that order. Advy/Doc still req a LOT of outside help to get equiped with gear/nanos, and outside buffs to cast them.

MP's ARE the nano buffing class and at your lower lvls are quite easily equal to a 2-3 man team with pets. Being able to blitz nanos for higher lvl pets is heaven sent. No real required equipment to twink other than implants, easy to mission pets, miys armor and creation nanos make MP up to tl6 super easy mode.

NT's follow similar ease just by being a calming class, they only need OSB for top nukes. But not a requirement with calming or root-nuke techniques.

lol no the amount of misinformation in this thread is simply staggering. docs can solo ado hecks at 150 in ql 200 implants and a set of miys. no other prof can do that. while the time/reward of this activity means you have to find a team to level faster, it's still a) possible and b) means you'll probably be ch tanking for the team if you dont have an ost. the docs that have trouble are the scrubs that don't know how to use init debuffs, or think it's ubt or nothing and dont bother getting the lower ones.

i did dark ruins on my stripped 151 ma and it was a breeze. my geared nt needed quite a lot of gear and quite a few levels before i could do it. and i needed hack n quack for the goddess.

mp's are garbage without osb's and need like 200-250 ncu worth of osb's to be half-decent. the calmpet is worthless, the healpet doesn't heal for crap and the attack pet does a rolled-up newspaper's worth of damage and holds aggro like a paraplegic holds a bowling ball. mp's are SO worthless without good osb's and gear. for the amount of creds it takes to make an mp play decently you cna roll 3 enfos and solo anything the mp can faster, easier, safer and with less attention.

that said, throw on a gsf hnq rrfe behe and mc/ts/bm mochams so you can get some nice meatballs out and suddenly a lowbie mp demolish things many times higher than their level (especially when you hit a point where you can cast everything with mochams and then cancel them to switch for a composite.


EDIT: i agree with you regarding keepers tho.

[Psikie]

lol no the amount of misinformation in this thread is simply staggering. docs can solo ado hecks at 150 in ql 200 implants and a set of miys. no other prof can do that.

First i'd like to say...show me to this one. Because if you aren't constantly locked in recharge trying to outheal the 3 hit kills from hecks you most definately are not attacking or casting DoT's.

that said, throw on a gsf hnq rrfe behe and mc/ts/bm mochams so you can get some nice meatballs out and suddenly a lowbie mp demolish things many times higher than their level (especially when you hit a point where you can cast everything with mochams and then cancel them to switch for a composite.

EDIT: i agree with you regarding keepers tho.

Now I don't know what your dislike of MP's are but all this is written by someone who obviously doesnt have an MP. Maybe you don't realize this BUT "mochams so you can get some nice meatballs out and suddenly a lowbie mp demolish things many times higher than their level" Those come from MP'S!!! Usually by lvl 110-120ish an MP can self mochams and ALL top buffs. (no other prof can do that. ) At least not without an MP. They don't need any OSB because they buff themselves. All this other stuff is not needed once you pop your max pet and nuke from behind your evade shield.

Maybe it's just me or my playstyle, but out of my 220's MP, NT, Keep, Sol, Enf, Engi, Crat, and 214Doc. The doctor was and still is the LEAST desirable to solo with. By nature Doc is a team playing toon, especially at lower lvls. Now maybe at 220, no wait i'll even go as far as saying 215 maybe doc becomes some super toon, i wouldnt know because mine is stuck at 214 that i die of boredom just thinking about logging it on. I dont know if you have ever tried to play MP or NT but you dont write like you ever have, nor do i see any in your sig.

[Lazy]

First i'd like to say...show me to this one. Because if you aren't constantly locked in recharge trying to outheal the 3 hit kills from hecks you most definately are not attacking or casting DoT's.

the trick is using. the best debuff ingame with that up it's easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Now I don't know what your dislike of MP's are but all this is written by someone who obviously doesnt have an MP.

!whois lazyballs

Maybe you don't realize this BUT "mochams so you can get some nice meatballs out and suddenly a lowbie mp demolish things many times higher than their level" Those come from MP'S!!! Usually by lvl 110-120ish an MP can self mochams and ALL top buffs. (no other prof can do that. ) At least not without an MP. They don't need any OSB because they buff themselves. All this other stuff is not needed once you pop your max pet and nuke from behind your evade shield.

kinda curious how you expect a tl1 2 or 3 mp to cast mochams. and after all, you need to get through tl 1 2 and 3 to get to 7 last time i checked. a 110 mp would need to gear up fairly well to self top buffs. my 100 nm crat still needs ci for his top crap in a fairly hardcore nanoskill setup (tl4 devalos sleeves, et al) and while mp's can ladder infuses into mochams it's a) a pita and b) not worth it.

Maybe it's just me or my playstyle, but out of my 220's MP, NT, Keep, Sol, Enf, Engi, Crat, and 214Doc. The doctor was and still is the LEAST desirable to solo with. By nature Doc is a team playing toon, especially at lower lvls. Now maybe at 220, no wait i'll even go as far as saying 215 maybe doc becomes some super toon, i wouldnt know because mine is stuck at 214 that i die of boredom just thinking about logging it on. I dont know if you have ever tried to play MP or NT but you dont write like you ever have, nor do i see any in your sig.

i've played just about every prof until at least tl5. exceptions being advy (never rolled one because i hate morphs), mp (56 twink) trader (cba to level) and keeper (stuck at 142 because i got really bored of it) my nt is currently 190something and even in a hardcore def setup still dies to mantis queen without osbs. (although i got her down to like 2 bubbles last time i tried and then messed up and died, but still, it was MUCH easier on my solja wearing the equivalent of a paper sack when it was that level)

my doc has soloed zods, mitaar, lotv, etc. my crat being in a hardcore dd setup gets rolled in mitaar, especially after the init nerf.:/

[Psikie]

kinda curious how you expect a tl1 2 or 3 mp to cast mochams. and after all, you need to get through tl 1 2 and 3 to get to 7 last time i checked. a 110 mp would need to gear up fairly well to self top buffs. my 100 nm crat still needs ci for his top crap in a fairly hardcore nanoskill setup (tl4 devalos sleeves, et al) and while mp's can ladder infuses into mochams it's a) a pita and b) not worth it.

TL1-3 Mp's dont really need mochams to keep a red pet, expertises-teachings-masteries can be laddered. Although at TL1-2 you only need expertises or teachings anyway because you might not have the nano pool to cast higher pets anyway with masteries/infuses/mochams.

Now you said it's a PITA, but the fact that a 110-120 MP can SELF ladder means they don't need OSB's which was the point of the OP. Soloing WITHOUT needing OSB's.

While UBT is fantastic, it's still not keeping a 150 doc from being hit and having to heal. Let alone when would you have time to cast DoT's or attack. Maybe before init nerf/fix that was possible, but not today.

I stand behind my MP as the easiest solo prof to play and lvl up. Just will require you to do more rk missions for nanos instead of buying weapons.

FYI i dont like advy either, and I have solo'd LoTV with my NT- before init nerf/fix not after.

[Lazy]

so wait. let me get this straight. according to you, a pet that hits for 500ish (+0 personal damage because you're locking yourself into the garbage nubshield), combined with the fact that having around 1k hp at tl3 (goes up to about 2k when you put in symbs), no debuffs (lol -dmg so good /sarcasm), no self-improving defensive buffs except a crappy evade buff that counts for nothing and a nanointerrupt buff (lol), a healpet that breaks and refuses to heal and a mezzpet that usually does more harm than good makes for a good cheap selfsufficient solotoon? when EVERY other prof at this level (including doc) can self better damage, costs less to make decent, can solo bigger things with less effort for less money. are we even playing the same game?

and yes. UBT will, in fact, mean you won't die to an ado heck. post nerf. in gimp gear. i'd love to see an mp do that. or even solo anything worth soloing at tl5+.

[Psikie]

so wait. let me get this straight. according to you, a pet that hits for 500ish (+0 personal damage because you're locking yourself into the garbage nubshield), combined with the fact that having around 1k hp at tl3 (goes up to about 2k when you put in symbs), no debuffs (lol -dmg so good /sarcasm), no self-improving defensive buffs except a crappy evade buff that counts for nothing and a nanointerrupt buff (lol), a healpet that breaks and refuses to heal and a mezzpet that usually does more harm than good makes for a good cheap selfsufficient solotoon? when EVERY other prof at this level (including doc) can self better damage, costs less to make decent, can solo bigger things with less effort for less money. are we even playing the same game?

and yes. UBT will, in fact, mean you won't die to an ado heck. post nerf. in gimp gear. i'd love to see an mp do that. or even solo anything worth soloing at tl5+.

I love how matter of fact you are about this, even though you don't really have much experience with playing MP. How about this... don't take my word ask over in the MP proffession thread AND Doc prof thread which is better solo at 150. You can even take it a step further and say from 1-200 it won't matter. The answer will be MP. I already know having played both past 210.

Now a side note...at 150 MP will be using Demon pet, with top heal pet not SL locked. Easily demon +heal pet can solo ado hecks, with buffed Mezz pet you can control an add IF you make a bad pull. I use mezz pet to handle Inf dyna adds ALL the time to great success. Maybe you don't know many serious MP's or never seen any in game playing. Buffed vs unbuffed pets make a huge difference. I'd be surprised to see 150 doc handle 1 ado heck solo, 2 no way.

FYI buffed demon pets hit for about 1500-1800+ per hit and even weak IS revenant pet can hit 2k+ per hit.

[Lackofgravy]

Short answer.... pick a crat.

[Lazy]

I love how matter of fact you are about this, even though you don't really have much experience with playing MP.

oh boy. here we go.

How about this... don't take my word ask over in the MP proffession thread AND Doc prof thread which is better solo at 150.

How about this... you explain to me which part of the mp toolset will let you survive a pair of chaincrits after the demon (which as we have established can't hold agg) loses aggro and the heck turns and swats at you from it's 30m range. the complete lack of damage mitigation and pitiful init debuffs means your healpet will not be able to keep you alive through that unless you're very well geared. (scrotucomm, 225 scouts, proper symbs, etc)

You can even take it a step further and say from 1-200 it won't matter. The answer will be MP. I already know having played both past 210.

really? i dont think you ahve. if you did you'd understand exactly how gear reliant mp's are to play well.

Now a side note...at 150 MP will be using Demon pet, with top heal pet not SL locked. Easily demon +heal pet can solo ado hecks, with buffed Mezz pet you can control an add IF you make a bad pull. I use mezz pet to handle Inf dyna adds ALL the time to great success. Maybe you don't know many serious MP's or never seen any in game playing. Buffed vs unbuffed pets make a huge difference. I'd be surprised to see 150 doc handle 1 ado heck solo, 2 no way.

i'll tell you a little secret. my doc is my first toon. when i was levelling it dark ruins wasn't out yet. and tl5's didn't get inf mish teams. so i levelled my doc off ado hecks wearing a mix of miy and awakened symbs and 200 imps because i was too poor to afford better gear.

so once again, yes, an mp wearing 1.5b worth of gear can probably scrape by soloing a heck. could you do it selfbuffed with 0 crit reduction gear and no damage mitigation and unreliable healing ? hell no. not with your pitiful 4-5k hp at least. and def not with the gimp shield since your lack of combat participation builds aggro more than shooting the mob with a bow (ask the mp pros if you dont believe me. or anyone that's actually played an mp)

FYI buffed demon pets hit for about 1500-1800+ per hit and even weak IS revenant pet can hit 2k+ per hit.

on rk mobs? whoopie. and it'll hit for 0 when you end up in garden cuz anything worth soloing can kill you just by looking at you funny.

[Belligerence]

Wait, he's trying to make a case for MP being better than doctor? What? Doctor is better than MP simply because the doctor toolset is superior to MP toolset post 60ish.

On topic: The most self reliant professions are, in order, probably Adventurer (heals, evades, damage, acrobat, cocoon, need I say more), doctor (poor damage, but at lower levels your heal will heal for 50% or more of you max life, and at higher levels you can chain CH to outheal all but the most brutal of damage), keeper/soldier (I tied these two because both of them can offer really good defensive toolsets, and are relatively self reliant... how often have you heard "lf mp for mochs so i can cast my next heal aura...".

Usually by lvl 110-120ish an MP can self mochams and ALL top buffs. (no other prof can do that. ) .

This is untrue. My doctor was able to cast all but the very top A or B (I can't remember which) line DoT by 118. I was self casting CH by 77, and UBT by 110, in leveling gear (I can't afford AI armor, so "leveling gear" is a bit of OFAB/Miy's). Yeah, yeah, casting all but one of my top nanos by 118 isnt "ALL" of my top nanos, but it's close enough.

Simply put, doctor is far more self reliant than MP, especially at low levels. At high levels, the soloability of a doctor is second to none, and the team desirability of a TL7 doctor is second to none.

[Lazy]

mp's are nice to have on a 2nd account as a buff dispenser. but they're expensive to enjoy and even when you have the cash to gear a nice mp they're still worse than just about any other prof for most encounters. anything an mp can do any other prof can do better, faster, cheaper, easier and more gracefully. you want cc? roll a crat. you want heals? roll a doc. you want pet damage? roll an engie. you want nukes? roll an nt. mp's have a bit of everything, unfortunately the bit they do get is rubbish. NSD is kinda nice, but worthless for all but like 3 pvm encounters (off the top of my head, hollow island and inf key). there's currently nothing that an mp brings to a good team (everyone can cast their top buffs and are capped on cost. those are NOT needed except as an NCU debuff). yes, if you're endgame you might do decent damage (about on-par with keeper and fixer, if you're in a heavy critsetup with chaos) but if a team wanted damage they'd take a shade or a crat (which brings debuffs AND 300kdpm) or an engie.

i'm sorry, but that's the current truth (even though some of the more militant mp's might disagree with me) that rebalance is trying to change. i'll probably change my mind when the rebalance rolls around but i haven't studied the mp docs so i withhold judgement. (although if the whines are anything to go by, it'll be more of the same)


EDIT: for more reasons as to why mp's are currently nowhere NEAR the best prof to play please refer to this thread, particularly, the essay by Ahndra-Corvid and LL made an interesting comment on the topic of PVP which, from my experience as a fixer is mostly true.

[Psikie]

oh boy. here we go.

How about this... you explain to me which part of the mp toolset will let you survive a pair of chaincrits after the demon (which as we have established can't hold agg) loses aggro and the heck turns and swats at you from it's 30m range. the complete lack of damage mitigation and pitiful init debuffs means your healpet will not be able to keep you alive through that unless you're very well geared. (scrotucomm, 225 scouts, proper symbs, etc)

(ask the mp pros if you dont believe me. or anyone that's actually played an mp)

Well to sum things up 2 fold MP was my first toon also so i've gone through the thick and thin nasty pre-NW days of playing the proffession. With very little to no credits. Everything I had was solo missioned for.
Any Mp worth their salt is sitting back shaking their heads at total lack of common sense by your statements. Sure hecklers might agg MP every now and again because we build agg along with pet. However what you are failing to still comprehend is the evade setup will still have 3x the evades of doc and be able to actually avoid gettin hit most of the time by staying at range. MP solo vs ado hecks > doc solo vs ado hecks. No way around it. The point is the MP won't be gettin hit nearly as often... If at all. Properly buffed pets can keep agg fairly well 90% of time the other 10% is where your evades and kite skills come in.

Now to also let out a sigh for Belli- the OP was about which prof is easiest to lvl solo without OSB's. Again MP will dominate that arguement because the MP is the proffession everyone needs for those OSB's to solo. Guess what MP's have the buffs already please keep up with the topic.

[geturmoney]

First i'd like to say...show me to this one. Because if you aren't constantly locked in recharge trying to outheal the 3 hit kills from hecks you most definately are not attacking or casting DoT's.

well my lvl 150 doc can tank 3 ado hecks using ubt (not decrepi) easily and tank even 75% of ely west spot with decrepi