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Thread: Keeper Implant Design

  1. #1

    Keeper Implant Design

    Okay, most of us are getting to that point where Keepers need to have some implants. thankfully we're not handicapped into spirits like Shades and can go the more 'traditional' route. However, that does lead us to the question of 'How should a keeper design his implants?'

    I'll post my first take on keeper implants. For the moment, I won't be considering Jobe clusters because, frankly, I'm not terribly familiar with them and they're not in Nanonanny by default. Adding Jobe Clusters will be in the advanced portion of the seminar!

    Please be gentle... don't mock me too much!! Please post your comments, or if your ideas are radically different, your own implant sets. I want to see what everyone thinks!!

    Code:
    	Shining		Bright		Faded		Ability Requirement
    HEAD	Bio Met		Nano Pool	Sense		Intelligence
    CHEST	Max Health	Bio Met		SI		Stamina
    EAR		 	Concealment	Psy Mod		Agility
    EYE	Aimed Shot	Psy Mod		Time & Space	Agility
    L. ARM	Brawling	2HE		Chemical AC	Strength
    R. ARM	2HE		Brawling	Parry		Agility
    L.WRIST		 	Riposte		Nano Resist	Agility
    R.WRIST Run Speed	Sneak Attack	 		Agility
    LEG	Agility		Melee Init	Max Health	Stamina
    L. HAND	Fast Attack	Fire AC	 			Stamina
    R. HAND	Martial Arts	Time & Space	Treatment	Agility
    WAIST	Fire AC		Max Health	2HE		Stamina
    FEET	Melee Init	Dodge Ranged 	Duck Explosions	Agility
    Notes:

    • My Keeper, Hethradiah, is Atrox. As such, it is very possible that I'll be switch max health to body development if that brings me more total health.
    • The biggest problem in this design is nanoskill balance. At QL30 (just a sample QL, worked out with nano nanny) you get +31 Bio Met, +19 Psy Mod, +19 TS, and +8 SI. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of our nanos, the nanoskills required are even. i.e. the PM/SI requirements are equal for our skill buffs, the PM/BM requirements are equal for our auras, etc. I picked at this problem for a good deal of time last night and couldn't come up with a solution other than "Just deal with it on the IP expenditure side".
    • I'm very tempted to switch that Bright Psy Mod cluster in the eye for a Bright Sense Imp cluster because PM is a much cheaper skill to raise for keepers than SI.
    • The second biggest problem with this implant set is that it requires every ability except Psychic. Fortunately (or unfortunately?) it looks like keepers really aught to be raising every single ability, so it won't be a major handicap. It'll just be a monster pain to buff into implants at low level due to NCU restraints.
    • There's a lot of Brawl in this implant design b/c it was essentially free. Nothing conflicts with shining brawl, and barely anything conflicts with bright brawl.
    • A lot of the random clusters in my implant set are there to tailor the Ability requirement to my needs. Since Hethradiah is Atrox, I tried to make as many of them as I could either Strength or Stamina. The head implant wanted to be psychic, if I remember right, and I had to mess with it to make it intelligence (which is just slightly better).
    • Most of the implants are agility based. While this isn't perfect (especially for an atrox), at low level, feline grace and agility boost go a long way in making things work, and at high level you can add in a Tsak rifle, QL40ish, for another 20 agility.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  2. #2
    I recommend some alterations to more balance out the Nano skill problem you are seeing.... (If I don't list it, I'm good with it)


    Head - Shining - SI
    Waist - Faded - BM

    This balanced out the nano skills to: SI = 27 and PM/BM/TS = 19
    I have SI implanted like that because its a Dark Blue Skill. Yes I lose up to 42 points in 2he, but I feel I can sacrifice it.

    By the time it really makes a difference we SHOULD be getting Symbiants and it won't make a difference.

    Since Jobe Clusters are now readily available I am going to tune them for using those cluster. The set I put on at level 50 and every set I put on after level 100 will have Jobe Clusters. I am looking at: AllDeff, Skill Lock, XP, Max NCU, and Weapon Range Increase mainly.

  3. #3
    The only problem with moving the shining head slot to SI is that the head implant then becomes psychic based no matter what you have in the faded slot... and that nanopool cluster is very important to trox keepers.

    What I'd suggest instead is:

    Head - Shining: Psy Mod.
    Eye - Bright: Sense Imp.
    Waist - Faded: Bio Met.

    That ends up with balanced BM, TS, and IS, with PM ahead by a faded cluster.

    Also, another Jobe cluster to add to that list is -nanocost.

    Since I've never played around with Jobes much before, what's the general thoughts on Addalloff clusters? Worth it?
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  4. #4

    darn the board ate my first post this morning

    i went with shiny psy mod in the head as well!

    put intelligence into the ear (can never hurt a trox) and went bright and shiny nanopool and bright max nano.

    i use faded bio as well - i lose some 2he but can live with that.

    yes this setup WILL use all attributes basically so you wont be able to implant high above your level in the 50-130ish level range.

    however, please keep in mind that you do not NEED to.

    you only need to go for implants 1.5-2.0 your level if you want to solo high diff or pvp.

    about the add all off/def... i think it will be wiser to comment on this once we know about the divisors for high attack rating for keepers.

    i mean, pre tl 5 you hit what you swing at anyway as the changes happen past an attack rating of 1k you will be safely over the treshhold of what is needed for missions with or without them.
    Last edited by Blackwing; Sep 12th, 2003 at 12:29:58.
    sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.

    gone now. byebye.

  5. #5
    Okies i went with - SI in head (shining) , BM/PM/TS in chest/eye/rhand (bright) and SI/PM/TS/BM in chest/ear/eye/waist (faded) .
    According to nanny gives SI+28/BM+20/PM+20/TS+20 at ql 30 .

    I didnt worry about the attributes for base abilitys just went for what i wanted to boost but my current setup does require using ALL base abils if i remember rightly but i wasnt trying to twink into 'very' high implants in relation to my level .

    I'll probably make some changes for the next set (ql50) but havent worked it out yet , quite likely to stick with these as my nano boosts but will change others around now that ive been playing him for a while .

    Oh btw he's OPI
    Psyanyde (AWOL) ^^ Proud to be a part of - Wen-tzu Enclave - Karma is real baby, and it's on our side.

    - NCU error: This nano program can't automatically replace other program -

  6. #6
    Okay, I *think* I'm going to move forward with my 1st post, the changes I mentioned in my last post (switching to shining Psy Mod), and I'm going to leave bright nano pool out of my head implant for the time being. Shining PM/Faded Sense gives the head an agility requirement which will just make things easier. I'm leaving the bright spot empty, though, so it can be added in later.

    I generally avoid Psychic in implants like the plague. It's got no nano buffs, is a pain to use implants to buff, and has no convenient items to buff, either (sure, there are VTE's, but they hardly count... pretty tough to get a hand on). By the time I hit early TL4, though, I think I'll redesign and go for optimisation rather than buffability since that's about the time that treatment becomes the thing that holds you back rather than the main ability.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  7. #7
    For the moment, I won't be considering Jobe clusters because, frankly, I'm not terribly familiar with them and they're not in Nanonanny by default.
    Get the new version of Nanonanny, it came out a few (six maybe?) months ago, and has Jobe Clusters in it!

    Its the bestest.

    Whats interesting is seeing the way others do nanoskill clusters. I never have really tried to balance them out, rather trying to max implant one main nanoskill when possible, and then just avoid putting IP into it at all. But balance sounds interesting
    streaz18 - Women love Opifex in bed. I have just as much stamina as a solitus, I am much more agile, and I can sense how they like it in ways a solitus male could only dream of.
    ESA - 80/53/46
    Narysta is levelling again!

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Narysta


    Get the new version of Nanonanny, it came out a few (six maybe?) months ago, and has Jobe Clusters in it!
    Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that. Thanks for the tip, I think I'll need it for Aameul.

    Whats interesting is seeing the way others do nanoskill clusters. I never have really tried to balance them out, rather trying to max implant one main nanoskill when possible, and then just avoid putting IP into it at all. But balance sounds interesting
    This works okay for fixers since SI is so uber useful, but I find it a bit of a pain for classes that require 2 nanoskills at the same level, because you're only as good as your 2nd best nanoskill, which isn't very good if you haven't implanted it well.

    If you're going to do that with your keeper, I suggest SI. It's WAY more expensive to raise than anything else.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  9. #9

    Post Jobe clusters are the way to go

    I'll post my set-up: (format will be S/B/F cluster order)

    • Head: SI/BM | Dimach | Sense
    • Chest: Life | BM | SI
    • Ear: Max NCU | Psychology | PM
    • Eye: %Weapon Range | PM | TS
    • L. Arm: AddAllOff | 2HE | -%Nano Cost
    • R. Arm: 2HE | AddAllOff | Parry
    • L. Wrist: +Proj. Dam. Shield | Parry | Nano Resist
    • R. Wrist: Riposte | Nano Resist | +Melee Damage
    • Leg: Dodge Ranged | Evade Close | Life
    • L. Hand: Fast Attack | Skill Lock Time | Cold AC
    • R. Hand: +Melee Damage | TS | Treatment
    • Waist: Cold AC | Life | 2HE/BM
    • Feet: Evade Close | Dodge Ranged | AddAllDef


    This will be my basic template that I will follow. After a few tweaking and tuning it should be good all the way up. The higher level game introduces new thinking so I will have to wait till then to really fine tune this set up.
    Last edited by Evolucien; Sep 12th, 2003 at 16:30:50.
    ~ Evolucien ~ Enforcer
    ~ Cyforce ~ Keeper

    There is no Emotion; There is Justice.
    There is no Ignorance; There is Wisdom.
    There is no Passion; There is Power.
    There is no Death; There is Redemption

  10. #10
    A little late but:

    Since you have decided to take Nano Pool out of the head putting SI in shining spot and leaving the Bright spot blank will yeild an implant based on Agility.

    I still like having SI being higher than the other nano Skills because its so darned expensive. It saves me a little IP.

  11. #11
    Does anyone know how to predict what ability will be used by jobe implants? Neither Nanonanny nor auno.org's implant layout tool make predictions based on jobe clusters. :| I'd *like* to put in -nanocost asap but I can't tell if my keeper will be able to install the implants.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  12. #12
    Sorry.. I was supposed to get that data from Jayde and JB but they got distracted I guess.

    I'll talk to them and remind them. I'd like that data too.

  13. #13
    Alright... back to the subject of Jobe imps and what abilities they will require.

    I went and made up a set of Jobe imps for my 60ish Keeper. It was the must frustrating experience.

    Jobe implants cannot be lower QL than 99. It will not let you combine the implants with an implant lower than 99, and in most cases it tells you 99 but when you get the implant pushed to 99 it then tells you 100. Jobe implants of QL101 and higher are TL4 req and are therefore completely useless to me.

    I spent about 2 hours and 3m creds getting QL100 Jobe imps made up. Its possible, just a pain.

    Eye: RangeInc. Weapon/Psycho Modi/Time&Space - Sense
    Ear: %Add. XP/ /Psycho Modi - Sense
    R-Hand: Add Melee Damage/Time&Space/Treatment - Strength
    Leg: SkillLockModifier/EvadeCC/MaxNCU - Psychic

    R-Arm: 2he/AllDef/RangeInc. Weapon - Agility
    L-Arm: AllDef/2he / - Agility
    R-Wrist: Parry/Max NCU/Add Melee Damage - Agility
    Feet: EvadeCC/ /AllDef - Agility

    For the Ear and Feet I couldn't get my choice for Bright cluster in without bumping it to QL101. Thats the price I pay for having a massive amount of Comp Lit.

    Most of these implants required Quantum FT, Weapon Smithing, or Computer Literacy to assemble. Brights took 320ish skill, Shining took 625 skill. I can't do this again, I'll just make Ql101s now. The implants I listed on top I couldn't get in yet. The skill reqs on them are too hard for my nanomage self right now. Max NCU, XP, AllDef appeared to require Comp Lit to assemble.

    The reason these imps don't include Nano Cost or Skill Lock Reduce clusters is because at QL100 they don't have any effect or an opposite effect. Nano Cost and Skill Lock start off INCREASING cost and lock time. Above QL100 the Skill Lock Reduce has 0% effect (I can show you the implant). Nano Cost Reduce opposite effect. I had a QL100 Nano cost Waist Imp but that increased my Nano cost 2% so I dumped it and used a normal waist.
    Last edited by Miniexplicit; Sep 13th, 2003 at 17:59:52.

  14. #14
    For troxes, isn't it better to put in Body Dev clusters? (and not max health)

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Icedsun
    For troxes, isn't it better to put in Body Dev clusters? (and not max health)
    It's quite possible... I forgot about that. I'll whip up some QL30 body dev clusters and test it out, since my keeper can self equip his implants after some heavy leveling last night.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  16. #16
    yea swap out that shiny head

    and unfortunately i havent been able to implant jobe clusters on anything lower then ql 99 imps so you may have to get them from chests.

    also just a little suggestion implant psychology for those max health towers too since its a green skill. to bad comp lit is so dark blue its like it was black
    Last edited by Noahsdove; Sep 15th, 2003 at 03:22:57.
    God told me to make a chicken salad sandwich for lunch, and I did, and all rejoiced

    Trader Exam MKII Passed
    My Stuff

    Remember kids, Omlets are best when fried and served with a side xp%

  17. #17
    I decided to go with the bright nanopool cluster after all... and boooy do I need it. I'm considering switching one of the max health clusters to max nano next time I do implants.
    Aameul - Fixer - RK1
    Hethradiah - Keeper - RK1

  18. #18

    Question Solitus Love?

    What changes should be made for those people that are using a Solitus as the race for their Keeper?

  19. #19
    Unless they've changed something lately, then stick with max health no matter what, max health gives much more hp than you would get with body dev even as a trox
    trox gain 4hp per point of body dev
    max health on the imps is the equivalent of 5hp per point of body dev so there ya go stick with max health

  20. #20
    Shining Bright Faded

    HEAD Biological Metamorphosis Nano Pool Sense
    CHEST Max Health Biological Metamorphosis Sensory Improvement & Modification
    EAR +Add % XP -Nano Cost% Psychological Modifications
    EYE Vehicle Airborne Psychological Modifications Time & Space
    LEFT ARM +Health Delta 2 Handed Edged Weapons -Nano Cost%
    RIGHT ARM 2 Handed Edged Weapons Add All Def Fast Attack
    LEFT WRIST NONE +Melee Damage +Melee Damage Shield
    RIGHT WRIST Parry +Max NCU +Melee Damage
    LEG Agility Melee Weapons Initiative Max Health
    LEFT HAND Fast Attack NONE First Aid
    RIGHT HAND +Melee Damage Fast Attack Treatment
    WAIST -Nano Cost% Max Health 2 Handed Edged Weapons
    FEET Melee Weapons Initiative +Health Delta NONE
    Last edited by Invio; Sep 16th, 2003 at 00:36:37.
    Invio - Solitus Keeper of the Redeemed
    Armor Profile

    Alocs - Atrox Enforcer
    Phytr - Opifex MA

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