New Weapons???

[_______________Widda]

Looks like a bunch of (tradeskilled) new weapons are being added in this batch. Any of you have mined the database and found what is in store for Shades?

Thank you,

Eiss, 198 Shade
TOLM
The good karma Shade.

[Jynne]

I didn't notice any good piercing-based weapons in this patch.

There are several new armor and utility items, some of which look useful (there is a HUD item that increases crit % a little for example) but it looks mostly like the weaponry love in this patch was aimed at fixers, soldiers, agents, enforcers, and MPs (in about that order).

The piercing weapons they added looked very blah... 3/3 or so attack/recharge and low damage IMO.

[With]

Originally posted by Jynne
I didn't notice any good piercing-based weapons in this patch.

There are several new armor and utility items, some of which look useful (there is a HUD item that increases crit % a little for example) but it looks mostly like the weaponry love in this patch was aimed at fixers, soldiers, agents, enforcers, and MPs (in about that order).

The piercing weapons they added looked very blah... 3/3 or so attack/recharge and low damage IMO.

Low damage for SL. Very nice damage for RK.
Mangler Claw:

MultiMelee: 800
AttackRange: 2m
EquipTime: 1s
InitiativeType: MeleeInit.
AttackTime: 3.3s
RechargeTime: 3.5s
Damage: 30-350 (400) -- MeleeAC
Atk. Skills: Piercing: 100% (effective attack rating capped at 1200)

Self Piercing >= 851
Self SneakAttack >= 426
Self FastAttack >= 426
Self Parry >= 341
Self Riposte >= 341


The reqs are nice because you don't need brawling, which imo is AWESOME. This is a nice option as opposed to needing ITDs in RK.

[Jynne]

To use a 3.3/3.5 weapon at full 1/1 speed, you'll need around 1200 melee init at full aggro. A TL4 character might reasonably expect to have 600-700 melee init.

Compare that to the faster ITD that does more damage... those claws aren't a realistic alternative to ITDs on RK, they aren't even an alternative to sigds or obfuscating daggers on RK

I was able to move my agg/def slider to 88% (no bonus/penalty to attack speed) with ITDs before level 100. And when I swapped to sigds I moved it more left and still fight at 1/1. With those you'll be TL6 or 7 before you can start moving your agg/def left.

And the damage isn't anything to write home about. Very disappointing weapons, overall.

[With]

Originally posted by Jynne
To use a 3.3/3.5 weapon at full 1/1 speed, you'll need around 1200 melee init at full aggro. A TL4 character might reasonably expect to have 600-700 melee init.

Compare that to the faster ITD that does more damage... those claws aren't a realistic alternative to ITDs on RK, they aren't even an alternative to sigds or obfuscating daggers on RK

I was able to move my agg/def slider to 88% (no bonus/penalty to attack speed) with ITDs before level 100. And when I swapped to sigds I moved it more left and still fight at 1/1. With those you'll be TL6 or 7 before you can start moving your agg/def left.

And the damage isn't anything to write home about. Very disappointing weapons, overall.

Since I was getting aggro and getting killed a lot in lower levels, I didn't attack at 1/1 anyway then.

[_______________Widda]

I have to agree, this weapon is pretty dissapointing. It really does not add anything to the mix, other then removing the brawl requirement. It REALLY isn't much of an improvement there either, as you could customize (with grey glyps of XXX) Inamorata or Sacrosant weapons to perform just as good, or actually better.

Eiss, 198 Shade,
TOLM
The good karma Shade.

[Noxious_1]

how do you figure out where your slider needs to be at for 1:1...is there a formula or something?

[With]

Originally posted by sodor69
how do you figure out where your slider needs to be at for 1:1...is there a formula or something?

Best way is to play around with it either in the game or on aodb.info.


And if anything, this weapon makes a good replacement for compressed blade at higher levels, for those of us who don't have nippy.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by sodor69
how do you figure out where your slider needs to be at for 1:1...is there a formula or something?

You can use this handy Agg/Def & Inits Calculator that my ex-guildmate Novakil wrote

Or you can "/tell aggbot help" on RK1 - also by Novakil, it does about the same thing as the web calculator.

[Jynne]

Some Comparisons All using 950 AR, 700 inits, agg/def set for highest speed if not 1/1, 3% crit chance. Specials are given arbitrary guesstimates of reasonable skill amounts for a TL4 character.

At 0 AC:

Mangler Claw deals 7678 damage in 30 seconds.

QL 155 ITD deals 12480 damage in 30 seconds. 155 was chosen because a TL4 character could reasonably expect to meet the reqs on equipping it

QL 150 Sigd VII deals 5895 damage in 30 seconds.

QL 150 Sancrosanct Aban-Shere Stiletto does 9919 damage in 30 seconds.

At 50k AC (min damage/upper-level heckler situation):

Mangler Claw deals 1562 damage in 30 seconds.

QL 155 ITD deals 633 damage in 30 seconds.

QL 150 Sigd VII deals 3555 damage in 30 seconds.

QL 150 Sancrosanct Aban-Shere Stiletto does 379 damage in 30 seconds.

So what's this mean? Well, the mangler claw is blown out of the water by the ITD on low AC mobs, and it's decisively beaten by the Sigd on high AC mobs.

It does have a decent balance of min/max damage and a very nice crit bonus. The problem is its speed: the ITD and the Sigd get 5 more attacks in 30 seconds compared to the claw, and that's why they're so far ahead in damage. If we factored in +damage gear and perks (TR) the ITD and Sigd would improve even further compared to the claw... +100 damage (doable with relatively minor twinking in TL4) would benefit the ITD and Sigd by 500 damage more than the claw.

Edit - for example if you're hitting min damage, and get +100 damage in gear and buffs, the new values would be:

Claw: 2562
ITD: 2133
Sigd: 5055

The Claw's still ahead of the ITD but the difference +damage gear will make in how the claw performs compared to other weapons, really shows.

[Alzimach]

Don't forget about Newland Fish Knives, they're already here and already beat ITD's hands down since they're decent on both SL and RK. CB/Fish Knife is the best combo for a shade that I've seen outside of nippys. I use a ql200 CB and a ql181 Fish knife and easily OD any team I'm on regardless of people levels. Just the other day I was on a team mission, teamed with another shade who was 8 levels higher than me using two ITDs and there wasn't a mob I didn't hold aggro with. ITDs will always have a higher max damage but that doesn't mean much when I rarely hit for below 500 and an ITD user keeps getting those 100-250 hits lowering their average damage by a ton.

And yes, I do want my couple hundred thousand IP back from brawl but it's not realistic until nippys are more available, and they will be.

ql181 Newland Fish Knife

ql200 Compressed Blade


Fish knives are dyna-boss loot so you'll have to search the market forums for one of a suitable QL for yourself (or else get really lucky and find one on your own). You will almost always find these in one of those massive bank sales people have. They don't cost much, I usually buy them at 1m each but this is far from set in stone since they still aren't a sought-after weapon. For ql150+ I'd say make 3m your absolute MAX since you'll find someone else willing to sell for less.

Compressed blades are the best stabber we have (again, outside of nippys), only go up to ql 200 and are easily attained as mission reward loot. Just type it into your clicksaver and you'll have one in no time. I find these to be far superior to Sigds but they have the serious drawback of needing brawl. However, since you need brawl anyway for a decent weapon for your other hand you may as well use one.

Make sure you put the fish knife in your RIGHT hand so you use that for your fast attack special and not the lower damage CB. I regularly get 1.5-2.5k fast attacks with the fish knife (currently level 161 with fast attack title capped).