Traders are BETTER at healing the DOCS! Fix! Bump

[_________________bob]

What I was getting at (perhaps not very clearly), was would people still consider that the Trader's out-heal the Docs if the drawback for the Trader casting a Team-Heal was significant?

The entire debate above about Trader's out-healing Doctors seems to revolve around the ease with which the various professions can cast their team-heals (e.g requiring ransacks, long 'warm up' time, recharge times, etc.) and not just the raw amount of HP healed in one cast.

The question is what exactly constitutes 'best healer' with regard to the team heal? Raw HP healed? Time taken to get ready to cast it? Recharge times? Sacrifices made? etc. etc.

[Mercatura]

With current line of sight "rules" (bugs) teams heals are close to worthless in many mission types.

Lets get them all working properly again before we all get on the trader nerf bandwagon.

Despite the original posters claimed intentions, theres a big 'nerf trader team heals' coming across. Just the damn title is bad enough, we all know what the usual 'fix' desired is.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by bob
What I was getting at (perhaps not very clearly), was would people still consider that the Trader's out-heal the Docs if the drawback for the Trader casting a Team-Heal was significant?

Yes. A lot of people don't care about what a person has to do in order to do something. All they care about are the results. They see the health bar fill up. They don't care if you had to chop off an arm and juggle 6 leets with your feet to do it.

Mind you, I'm not talking about most of the doctor players here. All they want is an imbalance they perceive addressed. I'm talking about the people chanting "Nerf" at the the top of their lungs who really aren't affected one way or the other. Cost doesn't matter to those type of people. Balance is nothing more than straight numbers to them. And the caster's HP loss does not matter to them.

[______________Nelida]

That for me to run decent team heals I have to keep a drain running. This means that at the very least every other mob (and if it's a slow paced team EVERY mob) I have to drain first. Recharge after a deprive is LONG and I can't heal ANYTHING during that time. For some reason other players don't realize this and expect me to pop out team heal after team heal with NO delay. That simply isn't the case. When it's all said and done it is NOT easy for a 134 Trader to act as Uber Healer in a team. Additionally we're effectively DoTing ourselves in the process and while that isn't ALWAYS a problem it sure as hell is if we draw aggro from a nice shotgun crit.

Sure, some of us can tweek our characters toward team healing but we sacrafice someting else to do it. I can easily see how a high level Trader specialized in healing can outperform a doc....I ask; So what?

Why is it that everyone wants to nerf the OTHER guy? Try asking funcom for improvements to YOUR provession and try doing it WITHOUT 'suggesting' the nerf possibility to Funcom...they're MUCH to eager to jump to nerfing.

Originally posted by Terranigma
Comparing numbers is useless. You can easily see that a trader of a same level to a doc in the same team can outheal the doctor. I have seen it several times myself.

[__________Terranigma]

nobody wants to nerf trader. We only want to make doctors the one dat heals best,

[Letah]

Indeed, we need better teamheals and use your class to tell FC it's too low... like I said at post #1 page #1

[mrpres1dent]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
Just a quick note people need to remember when discussing trader nanocrystals then back to discussion:

To be effective using nanoformulas, a trader must consistantly buy or find nanocrystals based on his buffed stats, usually several skill levels above them. This is a significant credit/time drain to buy these crystals or do missions for them.

But back on topic. My suggestions, in the order I think they should be implemented

LOL, poor baby. I wish I had this problem, lol. You're a riot!

[______________NERFED]

Trader heals and doc heals are very balanced...being that the recharge on the nano that allows to trader to cast the heal takes 6.44 seconds

[_________________bob]

Originally posted by Terranigma
nobody wants to nerf trader. We only want to make doctors the one dat heals best,

QUOTE]Originally posted by Mercatura
Lets get them all working properly again before we all get on the trader nerf bandwagon.

Despite the original posters claimed intentions, theres a big 'nerf trader team heals' coming across. [/QUOTE]

If the DOT's on the Trader Team-Heal stacked, would the Trader's out there consider it a nerf? To me it would seem to be making things work as they should, as Traders are about trading life, nano points, skills etc to achieve results. In fact, when I started my Trader I was pretty surprised to find this wasn't the case with the Team-Heal (since the non-stacking DOT is not significant).
I certainly don't want Trader's nerfed (I play one), but I'm just wondering whether people think the Trader Team-Heal works as it should.

I certainly think doctor's should be the best healers, but as someone touched on earlier, improving doctor's team heals may not be the best solution (I also play a Doc). Problem is it may disrupt the balance of something else, leading to another change, with another consequent change and so on and so on and so on. The stackable DOT change would have less of an effect on overall game balance than improving the Doctor's heals.

[_________________bob]

Originally posted by bob
The stackable DOT change would have less of an effect on overall game balance than improving the Doctor's heals.

Let me just qualify that with an IMHO.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Nalissa

What you are trying to say here is that having a ton of options and capabilities in combat makes it more difficult. That is dead wrong. Give a soldier the 'difficult' nano's like roots and heals and debuffs then - that should make them less uber due to the added difficulty of PvP. lol (this is sarcasm of course)

LOL!!!

[___________Zeroshift]

Trader heals: Gives a DoT, higher nano cost, higher skill requirements, slower to cast.

Doc heals: Cheaper, faster, probably more reliable and healing on the high end of the spectrum because their implants will be based on healing nano skills. Doc's also get HoT's, and numerous HP buffs.

I will take a doc over trader anyday.


This whole stupid thread reminds me of the time garzu screamed bloody nerf because he thought MP direct damage nanos were better than NT's.

Like everyone else here, he simply looked at the numbers and did not factor in everything else. In reality the MP could only cast a handful of DD nanos before his nano pool was drained.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by fl0w_

LOL, poor baby. I wish I had this problem, lol. You're a riot!

Next time you team with a trader, try having nanocrystals 2 levels above your skills ready to run and ask for a wrangle.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Zeroshift
Trader heals: Gives a DoT, higher nano cost, higher skill requirements, slower to cast.

Doc heals: Cheaper, faster, probably more reliable and healing on the high end of the spectrum because their implants will be based on healing nano skills. Doc's also get HoT's, and numerous HP buffs.

I will take a doc over trader anyday.

This whole stupid thread reminds me of the time garzu screamed bloody nerf because he thought MP direct damage nanos were better than NT's.

Like everyone else here, he simply looked at the numbers and did not factor in everything else. In reality the MP could only cast a handful of DD nanos before his nano pool was drained.

Again you want to start a flame war?

MPs got the best single target nuke in the game. 15 nukes before running empty... is that a handful? FYI thats 736x15 min dmg and 1515 x 15 max dmg. I rarely have been in a fight where I have to cast more than 7-8 nukes, mostly its 1-3 nukes every fight. Boss mobs are only exception. All NTs I know would trade the MPs MQ for any NT single target nuke. It does more dmg than any single target NT nuke can do over time at max defence, until the MP runs out of nano, which is after 15 nukes at my lvl.

And btw, quote me on where I asked for a nerf of the MP nukes, I asked for a boost of NT nukes. Not only do you come with false accusations of what I ask for and want for my profession, but you also

MADE A BIG MISTAKE IN THIS THREAD: (as always )


And lets take a look at your "numbers". You claim the docs are faster and got "higher" skill reqs

This is best trader team heal: Premium Delayed Health Payment

Execution 2.8 secs.
Recharge 3.8 secs.

Heals for 920-1144

Cost 262

Req TS: 862 BM: 777



This is best Doc team heal: Conglomerate Health Plan

Execution 3.29 secs.
Recharge 4.88 secs.

Heals for 485-970

Cost 178

Req BM: 856 MM: 772


My dear sweet Zeroshift.... Seems to me you got it all wrong.... again . The min heal on the traders is about the same as the max heal of the docs. Not only that, the TRADERS are the fastest, both the recharge AND the execution. Not only were you wrong on that part, you also claim the reqs are higher... well, in a way you are correct, cause it is the huge difference of 6 (six) points in BM and the enormous difference of 5 (five) points between TS and MM. .

You are right on the nano cost of the heals, the traders cost more, and the same with the MP nuke vs NT nuke, it costs more. BUT, you dont seem to get the point.... ANY DOC OR NT WOULD GLADLY PAY MORE NANO POINTS FOR BETTER HEALS/NUKES. Fact is that either the doc or NT runs our of Nano pool very often, I got plenty after a fight, except vs boss mobs.

And for the implant BS: Who cares what implants the traders use? All that is important is that he in fact can use better team heals than the doc. IF he chooses to set up his implants to do it or not, thats something for the individual trader to do, but he got the opportunity to have the best team heals in the game, thats all that counts in my world.

In your world the trader/MP pays a "price" because it costs more to cast the heal/nuke. I got news for you, and I bet the docs got some for you too, I am more than willing to pay more nano points for my nukes if thats what is required for them to be boosted.

And what do you have against boosts? What would be so bad for you if some professions got a boost? You fight every request for a boost with all you got, yes even your own stupidity.

Kick ass.

Thanks and goodbye

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by Garzu


Again you want to start a flame war?

Again?

I never had a flame war with you a first time.

I couldn't be bothered.

There is no need. Everyone knows you are a raving nerf monger and that your rants should be taken lightly.

[_______________Garzu]

Wha wha wha Poor Zeroshift, I just vagualy remember you fight every suggestion for a boost with all you got (which isnt much btw).

Bla bla bla.

Later Zero

[mrpres1dent]

Originally posted by Zeroshift


Again?

I never had a flame war with you a first time.

I couldn't be bothered.

There is no need. Everyone knows you are a raving nerf monger and that your rants should be taken lightly.

What, exactly, is a "raving nerf monger"?

[_____________Acidrob]

Originally posted by Zuleica
Sure, some of us can tweek our characters toward team healing but we sacrafice someting else to do it. I can easily see how a high level Trader specialized in healing can outperform a doc....I ask; So what?
[/B]

This is exactly the point! I chose the Doc profession because I wanted my main skill to be healing others, and I believed that the Doctor profession would do this best.

Unfortunately, I was wrong and should have made a trader - yes I would have to sacrifice some of the other trader skills - but I would be a better healer - its not like the Doc profession has any other skills other than healing Id miss by becoming a trader.

And yes I can reroll as a trader - but I dont want this to be the solution and see the death of the Doc profession.

Reduce the min/max range on our heals and reduce the recharge times.

[BGumble]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon


No, what should change is so wrangle, divest and plunder ONLY raise weapon skills and NOT raise nano skills.

Traders raise weapon skills.

MPs raise nano skills.

That sounds like a good way to me...

This will fix atleast some of the trader twinks and over equip, it will also change trader debuffs so they don't make all profs that use nanos totally useless and maybe will balance so traders are more in line with most other profs in PvP.

I want balance, I started a trader cuz they seemed so damn good at everything, so I wanted to see how it was to be one myself and now when I'm lvl 61 I see that it's actually true, I'm still really low lvl but so far they are even better than I thought.

Yes, they are fantastic, almost as good as MPs.

Raising nano skills is completely appropriate for our range of nanos which were clearly designed with that in mind. Mochams on the other hand serves no purpose whatsoever - MPs pet range could easily set up so that MPs dont need Mochams. At the very least it should be self buff only.

Personally I couldnt care less about wrangles, they dont benefit my trader - you want to take the nano component out of wrangles then fine, I'll swap that for Masteries, Infuse and Mochams being self buff only.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Garzu
This is best Doc team heal: Conglomerate Health Plan

Execution 3.29 secs.
Recharge 4.88 secs.

Heals for 485-970

Cost 178

Req BM: 856 MM: 772


My dear sweet Zeroshift.... (..)

Go Garzu! Go Garzu! Go Garzu!


Anyways, they will reply "we have to divest" soon on that, but bah, let them cast this Trader nano then:

http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?...no=1&id=118232
Nanocost 242

Execution: 2.8 s
Recharge time: 3.8 s
Heals for: 780 - 878

time and space 740
biological meta 668

I'd give a leg to get such a great teamheal, because we -just as NT's nuke for- always heal for min heals nearly.


Again, before we are back to square one in flaming, I do not wish to nerf Tarders but get better teamheals (at least the min. heals) for doc's. I use you, traders as why ours are so bad.

/me thinks she better had used ma/adv as example because these traders seems so agitated on something that does not concern their class at all, only a comparisson.

If doc's get better teamheals maybe the ma's will get evened our recharge rates too I'm not sure what the adv heals lack though, i'd be interested into hearing how their heals are.