Healing classes overpowered

[puxx]

I like to heal and grow flowers

[______________Yazule]

I am not trying to put you in a flame war, here, for clarification lemme quote the things that have given me a tone that you seem to think is me instigating.

I now understand why PvP players (in particular the solja) are more whiny/inmature then PvM players.

hmm, very positve of you (and no I have no solja's, it is just not right to put everyone in a class into such a catagory)

You heavy damage dealing classes can only do one thing right, thats deal damage, you dont really understand in a team it's the doc or other healers keeping your silly arse alive, not your uber twinked armor or QL200 nova.

again, I said before, you keep him alive, he keeps you alive, it is called teamwork (where I started picking up your elitist mentality).
You would not last 25 seconds without your tank.

In PvP the true whinner in you comes out, you solo (your selfish desire to have title) so you probably spent zero IP in anything which will help keep you alive after the damage is dealt, you people scram in and outa zones and prey on the weak.

ok here we go.. SOLJA CANNOT HEAL, so what IP's are you talking about exactly? Hmmmm....

You must be solo pvping to get into these situations, so you must have a selfish desire to have a title.

That was every sentence in your first post, each one rubbed me the wrong way and gave you an elitist view.

If you play a doc then you understand the mentality of these solja's and enf's charging around in a team thinking they are the elite god.

again, abrasive and now you include my class in your generalities.

I'm only saying it's those dweebs who eventually take thier inflated egos into a pvp arena and wonder why they cant stand up to a doc same level.

now we are dweebs!!! ya, you got some big "not such a bad guy" points with me there.

ya i can heal damage at the same rate you can deal it, what's so overpowering about that?

umm you can heal as fast as anyone does damage, that implies that you will win any fight except against someone with the same ability (another doc) because you will always have a full health bar. Do you see at all how that is overpowering now?

the dweeb loved it when i was healing him in a team charging after mobs way above his level shouting "heal, heal me doc...", now he wants it halfed when going 1v1, pooh on that.

hmm, well to start your calling tanks dweebs again. Another thing is this is a "you owe me something" mentality. I guess I will say it again, you keep tank alive, tank keeps you alive. Again abrasive and insulting.

btw, i'm humble and have a good doc rep, no need to work up a sweat flaming me.

show me in your posts where you are humble? maybe in game, because you want people to like you, but your true colors are coming out here pretty good.

As far as prepatch soldja's and prepatch agents, you best get a time machine, they both were hurt by patches, agents seem relatively well balanced but solja's are hurting bad.

I didnt start out trying to flame you bro, but what you say is SO abrasive, insulting, and downright elitist that it makes me sick.

now look at my quotes and maybe MAYBE if your the modest, moderatly thinking, nice guy that you say you are you will realize that your insults will bring people to say "wtf" about you.


Tanks dont "owe" you a thing for your healing, just like you dont owe them a thing for taking all the agro.

Not trying to flame, just lettin you know how offensive your posts on the topic are to me.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Keikoa
And Garzu, P.S. - NT's sucked in PvP before too

That may be true... especially in an arena, where we have always sucked, no range advantage there.

But we once had range... that was our advantage, if we could keep the opponent far enough away, NT would win fight. If opponent came within range, we were more or less dead.

We now also got 50% dmg cap... and because we cannot tank very well (range nerf, hurt us really bad) Its very important for us to deal as much as possible dmg before we get hit by that Beam.

To make things even worse, our nano pool has been effectively halved in PvP.

Now both dmg and range is nerfed, got nothing to compensate for it, at least we didnt suck in pvp that much before, we had an advantage we could use, now we dont, i hope for word from FC on this very soon

[puxx]

when i killed someone, anyone, i am truely sorry for sending them into the afterlife or rez zone or where ever they may end up. please everyone forgive me now or in the future if i should ever kill your character. Instead i offer my services of health and well being to anyone regardless of affiliation, race, or intelligence level. I will be your support beam in any time of need. Yazule, your are my hero! I am so ashamed and embarhased to have lead you to be instigating towards me and my terrible tone. I am a dweeb, a want-a-be elitist, abrasive, cold hearted, and down right insultive jerk so much so I want to puke all over myself.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by wakwak
when i killed someone, anyone, i am truely sorry for sending them into the afterlife or rez zone or where ever they may end up. please everyone forgive me now or in the future if i should ever kill your character. Instead i offer my services of health and well being to anyone regardless of affiliation, race, or intelligence level. I will be your support beam in any time of need. Yazule, your are my hero! I am so ashamed and embarhased to have lead you to be instigating towards me and my terrible tone. I am a dweeb, a want-a-be elitist, abrasive, cold hearted, and down right insultive jerk so much so I want to puke all over myself.

glad to be of service.

I was in no way telling you docs should not pvp, just commenting on you attitude about it.

so are you on the 12 step program? glad that I got all those quotes in so that people know what was being said before you altered all of your posts.

good day to you sir.

[______________Takuan]

Been going over this since some one made a math analogy ealier.

In the begining we had 100% damage and 100% heals and bacically what did we have, Insta kills

Soldiers
Agents
NT's
MA's
other with crit buffs and a BFG

All these classes could insta kill at some level be it Alpha Strike Dimach whatever. ( I miss my old dimach pvp damage)

Now we have 40% damage and 100% heals and this gives us long fights against healing classes and hopefully no more insta kills.

Ok so the point has been made repeatedly that heals be brought to 40% same as damage but that analogy doesn't really hold up. That brings us back to a pre 13.0 condition with the exception of the massive crits that were possible then. Advantage swings back to the heavy damage dealers of which I don't believe MA's are apart of anymore.

Post 13.0, as a MA, I still take hellacious alpha strike/AS hits from soldiers/agents and NT nukes in pvp in the neighborhood of 1-2.5K if they get a crit off. Yes I'm weairng QL 200 armor and have good evades. With a 40% heal I'm assured of 2

1. there is no point in pvp unless I gank someone
2. if I can't out run the guy I'm dead cause there is no point in trying to heal with gimped MA heals at 40%, I run, stop heal for 100 pts he shoots me for 300

What good is a 100 pt heal that takes forever to recharge

I guess the point I'm trying to make is there is not a 1 to 1 correlation between damage and heals. What should be looked at is crits. Ultra1 was rignt PVP and PVE should be identical, we should be doing 100% damage and 100% heals all the time but for the love of good not with 5K crits, cause that is just abusrd.

Remeber the massive flood of agents in the early days? Why pvp with a class that can't shoot from the grassy knoll and be assured a headshot. Every class should have a reasonabple chance to pvp, the deciding factor should not be ones class but ones brain and skill, this is not quake ot unreal tounament.

[Think4urself]

Level 97 Soldier Here.

First off, It's been a while since I last visited this thread so I thought I'd give it a look again.

Healers overpowered in PvP? I think that most would agree so. But I don't want to nerf anyone, or make anyone feel like they are being nerfed.

Ideally, like Ultra1 said, eventually MOBs will have same HP/AC as the equal level Player and damage AND healing will be reduced so that the same mechanics can be applied to PvP that are to PvM...... meaning 100% damage and 100% heals. One system for the entire game...... An "Omni-System" hehe (j/k).

But until then, why not this:

Healers in PvP have an EXTREME advantage, there is no arguing that. If Attacks are halfed and crits/specials capped at 40%, why can't we all agree to reduce Healing to 70% effectivness.

Lets just reduce the healing by 30% ( NOT 50% ), and see how that affects things.

I'm not asking for an advantage over healers.... just a level playing field. If my damage is reduced by 50% then we should be able to compromise and reduce healing by 30%............

Healers: This still gives you 20% more healing than we can deal damage.

I've mentioned this before but go no positive feedback.

[______________Takuan]

Trying to play a numbers game with percentage of healing to damage will never work correctly. Pre 13.0 there was no healing in pvp cause people just died Instantly. Andy Agent just hit you for 4-6K AS damage, not alot of chance to heal if you only have 3.5K HP. That was our 100% to 100% baseline. So in essence the percentages were more like this:

Damage 100% healing 0%

Pre 13.0 I can't ever remember healing during a fight cause either I killed the guy with dimach and brawl or he alpha struck me and I was dead. Fights lasted about 2 seconds.

So now healing classes can actually get heals in during fights and non of the non healing classes like it.

Think about the other things that are part of getting ready to go in a pvp zone.

HP buffs
The highest crit buff you can get
Over equipping the best gun armor and implants you can get your hands on
Speed buffs
Nano casting buffs for that big nuke or pet
Low Light Targeting Scopes

In essence we have never been doing just 100% damage. Pre 13.0 we were doing our 100% plus all the stuff I just listed some legit and some that are FC defined exploits or bugs. Healing doesn't require any of that and as a person pointed out in another forum how are you gonna change healing when a EXP group get's attacked while EXP'n. Does the doc go from healing his team pve 100% to now only healing them at 50% cause some one is attacking them?

The point is there is more wrong with pvp balance then healing and calling for a general healing nerf cause you don't play a healing class is in my view wrong. Look at the whole history of pvp and the relationships between damage and healing before doing such.

[Think4urself]

Originally Posted by Takuan
The point is there is more wrong with pvp balance then healing and calling for a general healing nerf cause you don't play a healing class is in my view wrong.

If you look at my signature you will see a doctor in there as well as my Soldier.

I made my soldier POST 13.0 Patch.... which means I never had the glorious opourtunity go slap someone with a "one hit kill" Alpha Strike. But I do know how powerful the soldier was before that patch.... it's why I made a soldier in the first place to be honest..... Pure Combat Power {yeah right}

So now the tables are turned.... You see all the healers on this tread arguing intensly on how the 100% healing is justified in PvP.

The truth is that they, and probably you, have now experienced how the Pre-13.0 patch soldier must have felt with such overwhelming power......

YOU HAVE TASTED THE BLOOD AND NOW YOU DON'T WANT TO LET IT GO !!!

The fact is that even if the healing was reduced by 50% just like the attack there would still be NO one-hit-kills, The 40% caps would still be in effect, and there would be plenty of time to heal to a resonable amount.... It would take atleast 3 extreme shots/hits to be killed by any profession.

So I proposed to reduce healing by 30% in PvP and you immediately jump on the idea. Instead of any kind of compromise suggestions you reject it without a thought. With this in effect healers would still have the advantage over non-healers.

Even if you do not see it yourself, I'll tell you..... You are blinded by the overwhelming power that healers now have and you don't want to lose that advantage, therefore any suggestion that someone makes, that would make you anything less than God-like, will put you at arms.

[xbmspec]

Just to let you know, they most likely didnt implement 50% Healing for good cause!

If you want me to heal you for 50% of my 1k heals when your near death, be my guest. 50% Dmg cap is not just for pvp, its for even touching another player! So technicaly, if you cap my healing, I can only heal my self 50% and heal you 50% also (because you are a human player)

Dont believe me? DoT your self. Nuke your self. Its halfed. Now imagine the same pvp concept on healing. Heal your self, its halfed (Oh no! My heals have become worthless!)

The fact is, Monsters hit very hard, and when my new 1k heal only hits for a maximum 500 points of health, (laugh, thats if im lucky to get a max heal, avg is 700, in turn 350, laughs again) Have fun hunting greens buddy, cap my healing, you wont get very far. Even with your MA heals.

Its alot more complicated than you think.

And ill have you know, most doctors out there cant pvp for the life of them. But the second one does, you people seem to tear him down.

[________Garzu-perman]

HP buffs
The highest crit buff you can get
Over equipping the best gun armor and implants you can get your hands on
Speed buffs
Nano casting buffs for that big nuke or pet
Low Light Targeting Scopes

In essence we have never been doing just 100% damage. Pre 13.0 we were doing our 100% plus all the stuff I just listed some legit and some that are FC defined exploits or bugs. Healing doesn't require any of that and as a person pointed out in another forum how are you gonna change healing when a EXP group get's attacked while EXP'n. Does the doc go from healing his team pve 100% to now only healing them at 50% cause some one is attacking them?

Well healers could and still can:

Overequip implants
Speed buffs
Nano casting buffs for that big heal
Nano init buffs and debuffs

So in essence healing has never been 100% either, its more.

I really dont see your point here, healing needs a nerf, or damage needs to be 100% again.



The point is there is more wrong with pvp balance then healing and calling for a general healing nerf cause you don't play a healing class is in my view wrong. Look at the whole history of pvp and the relationships between damage and healing before doing such.

Thats exactly what we are doing, earlier specials and big nukes was overpowered, now it is healing. Healing has to be under the same rules as damage, 50% effective and capped at 40% of max health. Preferably damage would be 100% again, but that will not work, but if we at the same time make a 40% dmg cap of max health, this would prevent a big healing nerf, healing would be capped at 40% of max life too of course. You guys heal faster than most can do damage, of course healiing needs a nerf or damage needs a boost, healing and damage should have the same rules.

To all of you healling profs, Lohem gave a perfect description of your situation:

YOU HAVE TASTED THE BLOOD AND NOW YOU DON'T WANT TO LET IT GO !!!

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Garzu
Im aware of the Nano shut down, i can live with that, but this was more about how healing is overpowered. Which it is. Healing needs to be halved, and nano range upped to 60-80 m

You can't be serious? Please tell me you're not serious. One Nano Shut-down and you are done!

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Zerosignal


I've asked myself that 100's of times.

Hmm Mirror Shield anyone? I'll trade you that for heals at 25%! power any day.

[Konkier]

Let me tell you, i am LV70 adventurer and for the moment i sux in PVP.

As our range weapon (pistols) make much less damages than weapons of other classes, the only opportunity we have to win a duel is to have our heal hability.

But its not enough. We have also to heal fast, so to have a nice nano Init (dark blue...) and high healing nano (Matt metam dark blue) and enough mana...

Usualy i cant balance the hit i take with my heals. At LV70 i average heal at 350 every 2,5 sec (if i dont hit) => what could you do when you are hited by criticals damages at 800 every 3 secs???

So if a high level adventurer have now a opportunity to win sometimes, well its a good thing for the game. Its good for the game that every class can win if well played.

Konkier.

[Zerosignal]

i was thinking about it some more this should help point out the imbalance cause....

You know trader nanos that supposedly suck life
when really all they do is DD the target and heal the trader...


Well it came to my attention that the target now is only receiving 50% damage while the trader is still getting the 100% heal......

Not this is not an atempt to nerf traders.....

I am using this to point out how stupid the current system is!

[Think4urself]

CrispyChicken,

What if they could initiate a way for the reduced healing to be in effect only when you are in battle with another player.

Example:

When you are in a fight with a MOB is says something like this - "Attacked by Apprentice Bothacker for 200 projectile damage", this should register in the program that you are fighting a MOB and put you in "PvM mechanics mode" which is healing and damage at 100%.

When you are in a fight with another Player is will say something like this - "Attacked by Billybob for 200 melee damage", this would register in the program that you are fighting another player and put you in "PvP mechanics mode" which is damage 50% effective and healing 70% effective (still a 20% advantage over damage). So your 1000 HP heal would heal for 700 instead... also I belive that there should be 40% caps of max HP on heals as well.... there are some peeps out there who can heal from zero heal to full heal in one shot....... WTF (admit that is a bit much please).

If you are in a team PvP battle.... the new PvP mechanics would be in effect... you could only heal team for 70%. (how does this make me feel that the doc in my group can only heal me for 70%? .... FINE, the other team is in same situation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Senario... your in a political zone and two opposing teams are in a big PvP brawl.... damage is 50% against other players and the docs/healers in team can only heal themselves and teammates for 70%. Say an Aggro Mob enters brawls and attacks one of the players?

The attacked Player would see - "Attacked by Grimwolf for 600 melee damage" the healer in group would see "Billybob was attacked by Grim wolf for 600 melee damage".

When Billybob attacks Grimwolf he would be attacking for 100% damage because he is in PvM mode. Say the doc in group did a team heal, everyone in group would recieve 70% heal while Billybob recieved 100% because he is not longer in PvP mode, but PvM mode.

A quick note: PvM mode would always overwrite any PvP mode, so if a player is being attacked by a MOB and then another player attacks him the modes would not change and the player being attacked by a MOB would still recieve 100% health.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ulitmately there should be ONE system for both PvM and PvP, but until then a fix must be implemented to the current system.

I'm sure you'll find a way to shut this offering down as well, anything to keep your advantage I'm sure.

I'm not a programmer but I know that implementing something like what I proposed is not easy... that doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

"Balance? , We don't need no Stinkn' Balance!" Come on man, all I want is a level playing field.

[Konkier]

Please before asking to nerf heals, take in account that all classes dont heal at the same rate.

Sometimes i have the feeling that some classes that won their duels everytime want to nerf classes that now win sometimes...if they are very well played

As i said before, in less than 3 sec, a soldier with nova flow can hit you 3 or 4 times with Fshot and burst. If he does one critical or 2 you are dead.

Adventurer, equiped with their poor damaging pistols do perhaps 20pc of the same damages in the same time if they land a Fshot and a Burst too. In the same time we can cast only one heal witch is the only way to survive in this case and we dont heal as good as a Doc (far from that)...

So you want us to have no opportunity to win at or at all or least to escape?

Konkier

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Konkier
Please before asking to nerf heals, take in account that all classes dont heal at the same rate.

Sometimes i have the feeling that some classes that won their duels everytime want to nerf classes that now win sometimes...if they are very well played

As i said before, in less than 3 sec, a soldier with nova flow can hit you 3 or 4 times with Fshot and burst. If he does one critical or 2 you are dead.

Adventurer, equiped with their poor damaging pistols do perhaps 20pc of the same damages in the same time if they land a Fshot and a Burst too. In the same time we can cast only one heal witch is the only way to survive in this case and we dont heal as good as a Doc (far from that)...

So you want us to have no opportunity to win at or at all or least to escape?

Konkier

I think the best alternative is to undo the damage cap. That way Shields and heals don't need to be nerfed. As another thread stated. If you cap damage at 50% and then a shield reduces it 75%... you end up deal 12.5% of your normal damage. So... as with all changes Funcom thought they'd make a simple quick fix with the caps, but in essence completely overpowered certain aspects of the game.

This will also occur when the overequipping nerf comes as Debuffs will become the all powerful weapon rather than actually having a weapon... an effective trader will start each fight with a high level debuff -200 to all weapon and nano skills... and increasing his own weapon skills by 180... and thus will be the only class able to ridiculously overequip....

These "simple" fixes seem to just change who is overpowered and do little for balancing.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent


You can't be serious? Please tell me you're not serious. One Nano Shut-down and you are done!

No, i just didnt make myself clear. What I meant to say was that this thread was about healing, but if you want my opinion on Nanoshutdown and debuffs in pvp in general: They are way overpowered. They last to long, same with doc slow debuff, the rules should change for pvp debuffs.

Make damage 100% again and capped at 40% of max health, same with heals.

[Konkier]

Well,

you can ask for a cap to 40% max health per casting :

=> for adventurer it will change nothing as our best of the best heal dont even reach the 40% max health LOL.

Konkier