Council of Truth clarifications?

[______________Luxxan]

Worked well for the Tir Accord, maybe we're on a roll

Now that Radiman is "back" and the clans are calling for action, it would be nice to know exactly how the Council works. Especially with accusations that it is not democratic and does not represent the majority of the clans.

There really isn't much out there. The Council was formed about 80 years ago and has been "ruling" ever since, but who makes it up? How many members are there? How are they chosen? I think the membership is secret, other than Radiman of course, and that there are 12 members, but I'm not even sure where I got that impression.

[Bionitrous]

Well, here's the rub. We got maybe 2500-3000 Clanner PC's (player characters). Biggest PC Clan guild can't have more than 400 semi-active players.

Compare that to the smallest of the Clans in the CoT noted so far. The Pilgrims which are considered puny have over a hundred members. So, you look at Storm with probably 200 active to semi-active members and they'd be considered pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Take into account that it wasn't until June of last year when outsiders where even allowed to settle on the planet. Up till that point, every human on the planet was either an Omni-Tek employee or ex-Omni-Tek employee who was in one of the Clans or one of a handful of Neutrals.

When the game was opened, you remember the fanfare of Rubi'Ka welcomes its new settlers. Now unless you re-write history, not a single player who posts on these boards or logs into the game was present before last June.

The 12 members as I recall are democratically elected from the 12 'Tribes'. These are the Clans that delivered the ceded lands into freedom from Omni-Tek before you or I were even here. We were only privy to news reports and such until the war was over and the peace treaty was signed.

Yet the question is valid. How does one go about obtaining a seat on the permanent council alongside the leaders of The Sentinels, The Pilgrims, Terra Firma, The EcoWarriors, and all those who had such a huge part in shaping the world we live in. Is it even possible.

As much effort as went into the Tir Accords, I think we should see the same for the Charter of the Council of Truth. We've got players ingame attempting to overthrow something they don't even know the internal mechanics of. That's not good for the game or fair to the other players.

Here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=26746

I've begged before and beg again. Flesh out the game so the players can act in context. All of us who really like the chronicles of Rubi'Kaan history run into dead ends and blind alleys over and over. Lack of knowledge ends up with situations where people who don't even know how the Council of Truth is run try get a couple hundred people to overthrow 12 Clans with hundreds of thousands of members.

How would you like to piss off the Knights and have them drop off a half dozen Tarasque at your first tea party? Seriously, can you imagine the power of the the Knights who create the Tarasque repeatedly simply to test themselves? And they let you guys play Cowboys and Indians in their basement. How cute.

Give us answers Ragnar before it gets out of hand and we start having hurt feelings amongst some very high profile players. Snarf and CaptFallout got burned by this issue before and I don't want to see it happen again.

Why do all Clan members get a Merit Board issued by the Council of Truth if they don't have a seat? Can their Merit Boards be revoked if they decide to drop allegiance to the Council?

Do they become Neutral? This I think should be clear. If you drop Council allegiance, you are in the same situation as the Dust Brigade. No backing from a huge group. Welcome to life as a Neutral. Good luck finding an insurance terminal. You'll need it.

[Arila]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Yet the question is valid. How does one go about obtaining a seat on the permanent council alongside the leaders of The Sentinels, The Pilgrims, Terra Firma, The EcoWarriors, and all those who had such a huge part in shaping the world we live in. Is it even possible.

The sentinals are NOT member of the Council of Truth. Simon Silverstone made that clear back when the Tir Accord was Signed.

As for Terra Firm, they got 3k clanners. just as much as you said there were of "New arrivals"

Which leads me to another point... how the heck do Redruum think he could win over the entire clan guard force? a Force with a size enough to kick (which was a shame) Omni-Pol's buttt

[_______________Gabro]

The whole threat of Civil war is just to get CoT into action. Easy enough I would say if the government is not corrupt, even a corrupt government could have done something by now. Problem with CoT is not the workings of the government, but it is how they don't interact with it's citizens as a democratic government should. Right now CoT is like an autocratic government, you can't get your oppinion through (for example the bureaucracy changed in CoT and the Athen Restoration Profect was suspended entirely).

Cot has been slowly losing power over time and it is to the point that any Clan guilds can do what they want and CoT won't do anything about it. ((BTW there is actually 20 000 Clan characters in the database and could only expect 1/4 is really active so about 5000 Clanners and the NPC forces are just imaginary, you won't have 3000 mobs attacking a couple guilds because servers would crash, even 100 would cause server crash. They would also have to be almost as strong as DB if not a little stronger to hold back some of the huge guilds.))

Also I think the seat of powers with CoT clans is comming out with organisation advantage for Clan. Clans can pick which Clan they want to be under.

[Bionitrous]

What action are we looking for? It's getting tiresome trying to find somebody to say exactly what the CoT has not been doing. Perhaps somebody wants a new city built somewhere now that the Whom'pa network has been expanded?

I don't know, think they should work on Merit Boards higher than the 1000 token board?

What exactly was the Council of Truth supposed to be responding to other than the Dust Brigade attacks which were repelled at every instance and whose whereabout continue to be researched by both Omni-Tek and Council investigators.

It's getting tiresome to hear the reactionaries spew the rhetoric that 'something must be done!' when there is nothing that needs to have something done about it. Reactionaries always just looking for some way to stir the pot to get their names in the headlines.

I repeat: what exactly were the problems that the CoT was supposed to address that have been so horribly neglected. Ask me and I'll say the Clans have been enjoying a Golden Age. No war for years and years and all the while enjoying vast amounts of Rubi'ka landscape. All this brought about by the efforts of the Council members.

Inaction? Pfft.

Change the entire face of the planet for the betterment of your people and continue to do so in the wake of a terrible civil war as the planet and it's people heal themselves. That's action enough.

What the hell do some people want?

New settlers on the planet for a little over a year and they think they know it all. Or throw in the waffling violent tendancies of certain people who want nothing more than justification to fire guns at any cost. Look at the self-professed military structures of several organizations looking to depose the Council.

Having the military in charge during peacetime has never worked in the past and should not be considered an option now. Rubi'ka needs enlightened leadership in this time of reconstruction. Both Phillip Ross and Henry Radiman despite their basic philosophical differences have shown themselves to be far and away more gifted in terms of clarity and sense of purpose than any other inhabitants of this planet to date. This is why millions (yes, millions) of people are fiercely loyal to these powerful men.

So we get a couple dozen trouble makers shaking their noise makers because their jingle bells seem to be drowned out by the booming voices of great men. Guess the attention should satisfy them for a bit.

[______________Nelida]

In-character or out...as I will be on this board...it all comes down to the same thing: We want to govern ourselves.

I don't give a fig if all the NPCs in the Clans are a vast majority of the Clan population and hence should make the "decisions" by their representatives on the CoT. Bottom line is there are no NPCs without us players. If we continue to be mere puppets destined to 'dance' to whatever random tune FC plays this month then I really see no purpose to this world but as a place to be with my One True Love.

Personally I will NOT be a puppet expected to RP along narrow guidelines set by FC. I'm in CAS but I'm NOT a terrorist and neither are any other CAS officers. So, that pretty much makes CAS NOT a terrorist org despite what FC might want everyone to think. We like who we are and we have no intention of RPing something we do NOT like just for the sake of FC storyline.

My advice is much along the lines of Bio's. Give us some serious context BUT, above that, give us some CHOICE and make our choices actually AFFECT the storyline you pump out. I won't be your puppet FC.

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Well, here's the rub. We got maybe 2500-3000 Clanner PC's (player characters). Biggest PC Clan guild can't have more than 400 semi-active players.

Compare that to the smallest of the Clans in the CoT noted so far. The Pilgrims which are considered puny have over a hundred members. So, you look at Storm with probably 200 active to semi-active members and they'd be considered pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Take into account that it wasn't until June of last year when outsiders where even allowed to settle on the planet. Up till that point, every human on the planet was either an Omni-Tek employee or ex-Omni-Tek employee who was in one of the Clans or one of a handful of Neutrals.

When the game was opened, you remember the fanfare of Rubi'Ka welcomes its new settlers. Now unless you re-write history, not a single player who posts on these boards or logs into the game was present before last June.

The 12 members as I recall are democratically elected from the 12 'Tribes'. These are the Clans that delivered the ceded lands into freedom from Omni-Tek before you or I were even here. We were only privy to news reports and such until the war was over and the peace treaty was signed.

Yet the question is valid. How does one go about obtaining a seat on the permanent council alongside the leaders of The Sentinels, The Pilgrims, Terra Firma, The EcoWarriors, and all those who had such a huge part in shaping the world we live in. Is it even possible.

As much effort as went into the Tir Accords, I think we should see the same for the Charter of the Council of Truth. We've got players ingame attempting to overthrow something they don't even know the internal mechanics of. That's not good for the game or fair to the other players.

Here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=26746

I've begged before and beg again. Flesh out the game so the players can act in context. All of us who really like the chronicles of Rubi'Kaan history run into dead ends and blind alleys over and over. Lack of knowledge ends up with situations where people who don't even know how the Council of Truth is run try get a couple hundred people to overthrow 12 Clans with hundreds of thousands of members.

How would you like to piss off the Knights and have them drop off a half dozen Tarasque at your first tea party? Seriously, can you imagine the power of the the Knights who create the Tarasque repeatedly simply to test themselves? And they let you guys play Cowboys and Indians in their basement. How cute.

Give us answers Ragnar before it gets out of hand and we start having hurt feelings amongst some very high profile players. Snarf and CaptFallout got burned by this issue before and I don't want to see it happen again.

Why do all Clan members get a Merit Board issued by the Council of Truth if they don't have a seat? Can their Merit Boards be revoked if they decide to drop allegiance to the Council?

Do they become Neutral? This I think should be clear. If you drop Council allegiance, you are in the same situation as the Dust Brigade. No backing from a huge group. Welcome to life as a Neutral. Good luck finding an insurance terminal. You'll need it.

[______________Nelida]

CoT by FORCE? I'm kinda on the inside in CAS and I haven't seen such plans...
The press is pretty amazing though...twice now I've had to point out that dates on the CAS calander are NOT CoT attacks but CAS parties to honor one of our members...lol...you people will believe nearly ANYTHING...well, not all of you at least.

Originally posted by Arila


The sentinals are NOT member of the Council of Truth. Simon Silverstone made that clear back when the Tir Accord was Signed.

As for Terra Firm, they got 3k clanners. just as much as you said there were of "New arrivals"

Which leads me to another point... how the heck do Redruum think he could win over the entire clan guard force? a Force with a size enough to kick (which was a shame) Omni-Pol's buttt

[______________Nelida]

The "great man" Radiman dissapears for months and meekly announces he was on a "personal discovery"...lol...nice "booming voice".

Originally posted by Bionitrous
What action are we looking for? It's getting tiresome trying to find somebody to say exactly what the CoT has not been doing. Perhaps somebody wants a new city built somewhere now that the Whom'pa network has been expanded?

I don't know, think they should work on Merit Boards higher than the 1000 token board?

What exactly was the Council of Truth supposed to be responding to other than the Dust Brigade attacks which were repelled at every instance and whose whereabout continue to be researched by both Omni-Tek and Council investigators.

It's getting tiresome to hear the reactionaries spew the rhetoric that 'something must be done!' when there is nothing that needs to have something done about it. Reactionaries always just looking for some way to stir the pot to get their names in the headlines.

I repeat: what exactly were the problems that the CoT was supposed to address that have been so horribly neglected. Ask me and I'll say the Clans have been enjoying a Golden Age. No war for years and years and all the while enjoying vast amounts of Rubi'ka landscape. All this brought about by the efforts of the Council members.

Inaction? Pfft.

Change the entire face of the planet for the betterment of your people and continue to do so in the wake of a terrible civil war as the planet and it's people heal themselves. That's action enough.

What the hell do some people want?

New settlers on the planet for a little over a year and they think they know it all. Or throw in the waffling violent tendancies of certain people who want nothing more than justification to fire guns at any cost. Look at the self-professed military structures of several organizations looking to depose the Council.

Having the military in charge during peacetime has never worked in the past and should not be considered an option now. Rubi'ka needs enlightened leadership in this time of reconstruction. Both Phillip Ross and Henry Radiman despite their basic philosophical differences have shown themselves to be far and away more gifted in terms of clarity and sense of purpose than any other inhabitants of this planet to date. This is why millions (yes, millions) of people are fiercely loyal to these powerful men.

So we get a couple dozen trouble makers shaking their noise makers because their jingle bells seem to be drowned out by the booming voices of great men. Guess the attention should satisfy them for a bit.

[_______________Gabro]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
What exactly was the Council of Truth supposed to be responding to other than the Dust Brigade attacks which were repelled at every instance and whose whereabout continue to be researched by both Omni-Tek and Council investigators.

Yeah they responded but who did the fighting repelling the attacks? Well I never saw CoT guards helping us take out DB. I saw clanners, some guilds involved in the effort against DB support CoA cause and it's not civil war, it's getting CoT into action.

Don't believe everything you read in the news, sometimes it's wrong. Civil war is the last thing CoA wants to do, but if it's necessary then they will go to civil war as a last resort. It's a lot of people hearing that CoA are willing to go to civil war and start assuming it's what CoA wants, it's not. CoA leaders have just had a meeting with CoT today, going to read the logs when they become available to my guild.

Nelida is right, many people believe anything people/media throw at them, don't be one of them or you will find yourself supporting lies constantly.

[Bionitrous]

Willing to declare a civil war to get the Council of Truth to step down regardless of the ramifications to the global political situation. Willing to kill people whose parents fought for their freedom and right to settle on the planet as non-Omni-Tek employees as little as 14 months ago.

I think that speaks for itself. It's an option. Civil War, that is. But not one I personally could condone.

I have a picture of Henry Radiman in my wallet. I've read biographies. The man would never raise arms against a brother Clanner. That's why I don't respect these people.

[______________Nelida]

You latch on to one or two, out of context, words like a little bull-terrior and shake and shake till you get dizzy in the head.

No one is "willing to kill poeple...[blah blah blah]...", what is said is that we are willing to fight for a change. For my part that means that if you come riding down on me with your fancy-assed army while I'm trying to govern myself I'll shoot BACK at you. If all those hundreds of thousands of Clanners that you say are represented by CoT come after ME for wanting to represent myself in my government I'll shoot BACK at 'em.

Well it looks like we agree on something else other than "weary souls"...civil war is not an option I'd condone...one I'd have to be forced into...unwillingly.

BTW, I keep a picture of my wife Cyani in my pack...a Neutral that REALLY got the short end of the stick with Radiman's Tir Accord...

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Willing to declare a civil war to get the Council of Truth to step down regardless of the ramifications to the global political situation. Willing to kill people whose parents fought for their freedom and right to settle on the planet as non-Omni-Tek employees as little as 14 months ago.

I think that speaks for itself. It's an option. Civil War, that is. But not one I personally could condone.

I have a picture of Henry Radiman in my wallet. I've read biographies. The man would never raise arms against a brother Clanner. That's why I don't respect these people.

[______________Luxxan]

Bionitrous has a good point here. What exactly is it you're looking for? Granted, the CoT was inactive for months. Granted, we're not exactly a fully democratic system. But I don't really think these are saber-rattling issues, especially when it comes to your brothers and sisters in arms.

If the CoT came to you and said "Ok, we'll implement whatever you want, we'll fire whoever you want, we'll set up a elections, whatever you want; just tell us what you want" what would you say?

[_______________Gabro]

If they came to me and said that I would say "Lets get to work"

[Bionitrous]

Luxxan, you got my point to a tee. Obviously the CoT is reacting to public opinion. Obviously they have their constituency's best interests at heart. They are good people with admirable qualities running the gamet from compassion to valor.

That's where my ire is raised. Perhaps, I respect Radiman's legendary status as a mediator and negotiator. All you have to do is thing 'what would Radiman do?'

Do you think he as the leader of the CoT is going to blatantly ignore the desires of even a small group of his people?

It's the whole 'throw the bums out of office' rhetoric that seems childish to me. The image of youngsters stamping their feet and threatening to hold their breath till they are blue in the face comes to mind.

As far as game mechanics are concerned, I think we can all step out of the game and see that when player-run guilds are allowed to align themselves with the Story-orgs that their voices will be heard as they automatically will be represented on the council and privy to votes and such.

I've tried to skirt around the issue, but I'm fairly certain that the whole throw the CoT out deal is simply an attempt for players to seize control of things at a level where it simply cannot work in terms of continuity and total playerbase enjoyment. Too much resentment is hanging on the chance that one player who pays 12.95 ruins another such player's enjoyment of the game by forcing their vision of things upon him.

All was well until a few select people decide to change the game mechanics for the remaining 98% of the playerbase. All the jockeying behind the scenes was enjoyable to read about and at times witness. When you start making decisions for my characters, it's gone to far. This is where I think this was attempting to go. I may be wrong and it could be great RP. I've posted in character so far to support the tangent. But, I'm really scared that the coup de'tat was not aimed at the CoT, but rather at me and all the others who don't feel the same sense of satisfaction from letting Henry Radiman tell us what to do versus Joe Schmoe in Anytown USA sitting in his computer room full of Jolt Cola.

I could be wrong. But, it really smells like the same situation where 'players' wanted to run Omni-AF for example and ruin the fun for those who wanted to join Omni's Armed Forces and bring all sorts of nasty potentialities into a situation where one player is expected to respond to orders from someone who is nothing more than another player. Recipe for disaster.

If it's RP, then it's good. Just make sure your conclusion props up the CoT and the Clans as a whole to an even higher level of unity behind the major characters.

[______________Nelida]

I think you suppose just a bit too much.

I can't obviously speak for anyone else, like you seem to try to do, but for my own interests I got into this game because I was under the impression that player decisions would affect the long-term aspects of this game. I haven't seen that happening. CoA is nothing more than an attempt to form an organization of PLAYERs that would like to actually have an input into the direction our lives take here. In an attempt to say; "Hey FC, we want to determine our OWN future." CoA is RPing a protest against CoT.

What galls me to NO end is this insistance that CoA is going to "overthrow" CoT and "throw them out". That military coup all of you were so sure was going to happen just didn't...did it? Or did I miss some military overthrow of CoT last night? hmmmm? Whatever happens with CoA or any other player run self-government will be done ONLY with FC blessing. I just hope FC sees that quite a few of us want to help determine our future in this world.

So...you are perfectly happy to let FC make ALL the decisions for us...we're just little puppets that play along with their fickle so-called storyline? I'm NOT happy with that. I'd like to have a say in what happens to my world here. Most times things won't go exactly as I'd like them to...but then they don't NOW so I fail to see how it would be any different.

So your little rhetoric about a "coup" that would set up "Joe Shmoe" as dictator in place of Radiman just never happened and now, as is plain as the nose on your face, was NEVER intended. Of course I've been telling you this for days now...go figure, wonder how I could have known that?

I really fail to see what is wrong with a bunch of Clans that want to unify and try and run things as a self-governing body. Maybe it won't work. But the idea that we are better off following the little trail of bread crumbs that FC drops for us is just NO FUN. I'd really like to RP but I don't particularly want to RP inside of FCs narrow and often confused storyline. You apparently do want to Bio and maybe that's why you insist on RPing CAS as some wild terrorist org even though the actual players that make up 100% of CAS (we have no NPC base of terrorists in our org) do NOT RP being terrorists. Sorry we are ruining YOUR fun by not RPing the way YOU want us to. I bet your were really pissed last night when there was no expected coup...hmmm?
And I bet those neutrals that keep seeing CAS as neutral guard killers are just really upset we don't go along with that RP either. Guess what? CAS is NOT a terrorst org, never has been, and isn't going to be as long as the current set of Advisors is in place. My advice is to get used to it that way 'cause we aren't going to be what you expect us to be.

I have no desire to RP under such narrow lines as I have to uphold CoT and Radiman. Sorry Bio, I don't carry a pic of Radiman in my wallet...

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Luxxan, you got my point to a tee. Obviously the CoT is reacting to public opinion. Obviously they have their constituency's best interests at heart. They are good people with admirable qualities running the gamet from compassion to valor.

That's where my ire is raised. Perhaps, I respect Radiman's legendary status as a mediator and negotiator. All you have to do is thing 'what would Radiman do?'

Do you think he as the leader of the CoT is going to blatantly ignore the desires of even a small group of his people?

It's the whole 'throw the bums out of office' rhetoric that seems childish to me. The image of youngsters stamping their feet and threatening to hold their breath till they are blue in the face comes to mind.

As far as game mechanics are concerned, I think we can all step out of the game and see that when player-run guilds are allowed to align themselves with the Story-orgs that their voices will be heard as they automatically will be represented on the council and privy to votes and such.

I've tried to skirt around the issue, but I'm fairly certain that the whole throw the CoT out deal is simply an attempt for players to seize control of things at a level where it simply cannot work in terms of continuity and total playerbase enjoyment. Too much resentment is hanging on the chance that one player who pays 12.95 ruins another such player's enjoyment of the game by forcing their vision of things upon him.

All was well until a few select people decide to change the game mechanics for the remaining 98% of the playerbase. All the jockeying behind the scenes was enjoyable to read about and at times witness. When you start making decisions for my characters, it's gone to far. This is where I think this was attempting to go. I may be wrong and it could be great RP. I've posted in character so far to support the tangent. But, I'm really scared that the coup de'tat was not aimed at the CoT, but rather at me and all the others who don't feel the same sense of satisfaction from letting Henry Radiman tell us what to do versus Joe Schmoe in Anytown USA sitting in his computer room full of Jolt Cola.

I could be wrong. But, it really smells like the same situation where 'players' wanted to run Omni-AF for example and ruin the fun for those who wanted to join Omni's Armed Forces and bring all sorts of nasty potentialities into a situation where one player is expected to respond to orders from someone who is nothing more than another player. Recipe for disaster.

If it's RP, then it's good. Just make sure your conclusion props up the CoT and the Clans as a whole to an even higher level of unity behind the major characters.

[______________Nelida]

say Great! that's exactly what we wanted, let's do it!

In fact, that IS exactly what CoA asked of them. I guess we'll see their answer...maybe.

So, I fail to see that CoA is doing is anything more than standing up and saying; "We want to govern ourselves. Come back to us and show us how we can do that. Here is OUR proposal." Notice the words Redruum used last night "proposal"...he didn't say "demand" or "overthrow" or ANY of the other words that some of you have been suggesting is reality. He said here is our "proposal". Wow, some big military coup by a bunch of terrorists...all those UNARMED terrorists from that horrible Clan guild CAS. You people are on your own little narrow-gauge railroad following the tracks someone ELSE lays down for you.

We are not a democratic system at ALL. Jeesh, unless you count all those hundreds of thousands of invisible NPC Clanners Bio talks about that are fully represented by CoT. Give me a break...I have NO desire to be ruled by the whims of an army of virtual citizens...hmmm and they all have the same few brains too don't they. So, in actuality we are NOWHERE near a democracy.

Originally posted by Luxxan
Bionitrous has a good point here. What exactly is it you're looking for? Granted, the CoT was inactive for months. Granted, we're not exactly a fully democratic system. But I don't really think these are saber-rattling issues, especially when it comes to your brothers and sisters in arms.

If the CoT came to you and said "Ok, we'll implement whatever you want, we'll fire whoever you want, we'll set up a elections, whatever you want; just tell us what you want" what would you say?

[Bionitrous]

It all comes down to whether you want to create your own story or live in FunCom's story. Simple as that. Two polar sides of the same coin and I can't blame either side.

I'm interested mostly in watching Ragnar unfold the tale and reacting to the in-game changes that the big names create.

I have little interest in what Winguaerd or Redruum do or say. They are just other players like me. It's my opinion that if two players such as them are allowed to degenerate the game to the point where suppression gas levels change or my character is unwelcome in certain cities that I have been slighted. I never want to resent another player for having spoiled the game for me.

That's one man's opinion. My side of the coin.

If Ragnar and Gaute decide that the suppression gas generators planet wide are to fail one day and the entire game is 0% for two weeks, I can fully accept that as a plot device brought upon us by those we pay to do exactly this.

It's in the same vein as players wishing to join Omni-Pol and not be bossed around by another 'player'. It's OK when Phillip Ross or Sergei Itsyawhatsthename tells you to march to your death. You relish this opportunity as a player. But when it's some other guy who's paying the same coinage as you, it's a risky proposition wherein hurt feelings, resentment, insubordination, and overall degradation of gameplay are the risks.

There are two people that players will listen to in this game: their guild leaders and official story characters. Why do you think this CoA movement got no support from the general populace? Because these people who are making all the hubbub just don't matter to most people. We all know they are just schmoes sitting at their home computers like us.

Good roleplayers many of them, but schmoes just like me and you, nonetheless.

[______________Nelida]

You keep insisting that everything is black or white..."create your own" or "live in [theirs]". That simply is NOT what it comes down to. It comes down to want some happy median between the two extremes you seem to believe are all that can exist.

All that CoA is asking is that a council of players that represent a LARGER number of players have SOME input into how events unfold based upon players decisions.

Personally I would rather watch this game unfold based to SOME extent on mass-player decisions and actions than simply being swept along in the Funcom stream....that often slows to a trickle.

I just don't understand your myopic vision of two extremes is all. CoA is NOT asking for the extreme YOU believe they are...but you seem to be demanding the opposite extreme. "I'm interested in watching Ragnar...", hmmm..."watching", yes you seem to be interested in watching. I am interested in interacting and having my actions, in conjunction with masses of other players actions, actually CHANGE things.

You know...the other players...the "Joe Shmoes"...matter to me MORE than Ragnar and other FCers...I LIVE in this world with you and others. You matter more to me than FC any day of the week. I'd rather have YOU affect this world than them. You I can get to on a regular basis, talk to, deal with and compromise with. Sorry Bio, as much as we disagree I'd rather deal with you since you are accessable. Hmmm....

Originally posted by Bionitrous
It all comes down to whether you want to create your own story or live in FunCom's story. Simple as that. Two polar sides of the same coin and I can't blame either side.

I'm interested mostly in watching Ragnar unfold the tale and reacting to the in-game changes that the big names create.

I have little interest in what Winguaerd or Redruum do or say. They are just other players like me. It's my opinion that if two players such as them are allowed to degenerate the game to the point where suppression gas levels change or my character is unwelcome in certain cities that I have been slighted. I never want to resent another player for having spoiled the game for me.

That's one man's opinion. My side of the coin.

If Ragnar and Gaute decide that the suppression gas generators planet wide are to fail one day and the entire game is 0% for two weeks, I can fully accept that as a plot device brought upon us by those we pay to do exactly this.

It's in the same vein as players wishing to join Omni-Pol and not be bossed around by another 'player'. It's OK when Phillip Ross or Sergei Itsyawhatsthename tells you to march to your death. You relish this opportunity as a player. But when it's some other guy who's paying the same coinage as you, it's a risky proposition wherein hurt feelings, resentment, insubordination, and overall degradation of gameplay are the risks.

There are two people that players will listen to in this game: their guild leaders and official story characters. Why do you think this CoA movement got no support from the general populace? Because these people who are making all the hubbub just don't matter to most people. We all know they are just schmoes sitting at their home computers like us.

Good roleplayers many of them, but schmoes just like me and you, nonetheless.

[______________Luxxan]

Originally posted by Melbu
If they came to me and said that I would say "Lets get to work"

Originally posted by Nelida
Guess what? If they came to me and said that I'd say Great! that's exactly what we wanted, let's do it!

Unfortunately, I was looking for specifics. I really have no idea what all the clan dissidents actually want, so I was asking, if you can have anything you wanted of the CoT, what is it you'd want? What are they lacking? Where do they need to improve?

There seem to be a lot of angry clanners wandering about and I really don't understand why. That's the question I was asking.

[____________Keaorata]

Ok ... My take on things.

Im a part of the CoA ... IC i support Windguaerd 110% because he is a fantastic leader of people and he does everything for the Clans. Not for himself. For the Clans

Also OOC i support the player of Windguaerd 110% ... Why? Because he does a huuuge amount for roleplaying/roleplayers and he has to take an unbelievable amount of crap back - off people who just never seem to understand whats really happening.
I'd support him in anything he does because he is a good person and works harder for RPing than anyone i know. (I did just say "anyone i know" because i dont want people saying "Oh so-and-so does more - blah blah" )

Bio and others raise some good points. I do agree with ya when ya oppose people unfairly changing the game for the other 98% of players ... but in some ways thats also wrong. FC stated themselves that players could affect the grand scheme of things. So, regardless of if it happens or not, its not really something that could be classed as unfair?

As Nelida already stated ... We all know that nothing will change without FC's blessing. We can roleplay all we like but its FC that has the final word. So in all honesty i dont think that much will come of the CoA unless FC really, really like it and can fit it into their main story.

The main point is that this is just roleplaying ... its not some form of megalomania. Its enhancing the story. Its making something happen. Its for the benefit of everyone. People have something to talk about ... something to argue over. All in all its a good thing

Im hoping this has cleared some stuff up ... on the other hand i could've just fell into loads of traps set by more intelligent people