Final update notes for 17.1

[Silirrion]

Your not that smooth as you think you said absorbs during this week, now its shields, you cant convince us you had this in mind all along.In a few patchs you will say defence ? just to cover everything ? BS didnt change how ppl pvp, who told you that ? do you guys ever try it out on LIVE ? Its the same who dose more dmg in a few seconds race...kill and run, zone up or down wining the "war" its just secondary....by now everybody has everything anyway. You guys really think ppl form teams and so on, well maybe its time to see how the real game is.

We said the 40% cap would be moving, we did have this in mind all along, no denying that. At no point did we say that it wouldn't have a knock on effect on relfects because the place the 40% cap occurs in the code would be changing. Yes, the absorbs were the main focus as those where what allowed the dubious gameplay practise and the ability that was effected most, but in choosing to move the 40% cap back it does effect more then just absorbs that was part of the equation.

The battlestations have changed the way people PVP, the introduction of mechs alone change the way people PVP, and the number of people PVPing. We are playing on the Battlestations, we are watching on the battlestations, so we are more then aware of how things are going thank you very much, don't worry in that regard we are right beside you in the battlestations (you never know maybe even occasionally fighting you )

[GameZore]

I suppose its about how you look at it

But what about Notum Wars ? when can we see some kind of reblancing betwen the defence and offence effort, have you guys taken into consideration how the new strikes perform? everybody wanted less "zerg" but how its anybody expected to take down a ql 300 field now? you do need a zerg just to take the turrets down! and thats its impossible now, since every org can mass kill every 15 mins, can even shoot them from yalam AFIK.

[Luiza]

is your main an enforcer?

[deniska]

yes

Great
Thanks.

[Neista]

So Sil, what defense are soldier supposed to have in PvP now? seeing as our AMS is pretty useless.

AC's? not like they do much good anyway with a low PvP cap and all. Evades? Not like soldier is supposed to be an evade profession, we sure dont get any perks for it. Something else maybe? Or is this the slap in the face we get to make up for us finally getting a decent assault rifle (which is pretty much PvM only, the long equip time makes hotswapping with it pointless).

Fixers (a class that was pretty solid in pvp to start with) get an FA Alpha and have awesome evades, We get our AMS (our ONLY real defense) turned into the equivalent of a wet cardboard box, this i guess is balance as FC sees it.

Dont think i'm beating on fixers, just using them as an example here.

[Silirrion]

So Sil, what defense are soldier supposed to have in PvP now? seeing as our AMS is pretty useless.

Now you see that's the type of gross exaggeration that just completely undermines any valid points you might have. Yes, shields are reduced in effectiveness, but it does not mean its 'useless'. Soldiers are still very effective PVP characters with better defences then many other professions. Yes, some have better then you, some don't. Remember as always we never look at PVP balance in 1v1 situations but as how effective a character can be in the PVP gameplay situations in game.

Sorry to come across as harsh, but that's precisely the type of feedback that just makes people not read the rest of your posts

...in particular when you haven't even played the game with the changes live yet

[Neista]

Now you see that's the type of gross exaggeration that just completely undermines any valid points you might have. Yes, shields are reduced in effectiveness, but it does not mean its 'useless'. Soldiers are still very effective PVP characters with better defences then many other professions. Yes, some have better then you, some don't. Remember as always we never look at PVP balance in 1v1 situations but as how effective a character can be in the PVP gameplay situations in game.

Sorry to come across as harsh, but that's precisely the type of feedback that just makes people not read the rest of your posts

...in particular when you haven't even played the game with the changes live yet

I admit i was being provocative to get a reposnse, but the reasonable part of my question still stands, let me reprhase it.

Do you honestly think its a good thing to seriously nerf the single defense that soldiers have? if so then why?

[Myga]

Well grats boosting specials to make AO into insta gank fest again, with more and more profession getting ability to just fire off 2-3 40% attacks (as+fa, as +fa+ sneak, sneak+backstab+dimach+as etc...) in 1-2s (using hotswap or dualwield), instakilling ppl before they can react. This is the exact thing you wanted to avoid when you made the 40% caps in the first place. I think most ppl would prefer PvP where they acutally get to use their toolset.

Before ppl could at least get RRFE and be hit for a maximum of 28% of their total health to prevent this, but now you have boosted special caps with more than 40% against players with RRFE.

[Pajaaa]

Does it mean that Pre-Nulity giving me now 38% and AMS will give me 2 additional percent?

[Armus]

the introduction of mechs alone change the way people PVP, and the number of people PVPing. We are playing on the Battlestations,

It sure did. But for NW not nearly as much as the introduction of orbital strikes does.
For tl3-tl4 and alot of tl5 it is all about orbitals now. 5 220's turn up and just nuke until ppl give up. No defenders even show because they don't have to.
So yeah. This is getting more and more pronounced. It's the new zerg and this one you have no way of killing it. Just evading if you're lucky.

It definitely affects the number of ppl pvping. And it will affect the numbers even more in the long run because pvt+orbital dodging isn't pvp and it isn't enjoyable.

Any chance of a remedy to this orbital zerging?

[GameZore]

Now you see that's the type of gross exaggeration that just completely undermines any valid points you might have. Yes, shields are reduced in effectiveness, but it does not mean its 'useless'. Soldiers are still very effective PVP characters with better defences then many other professions. Yes, some have better then you, some don't. Remember as always we never look at PVP balance in 1v1 situations but as how effective a character can be in the PVP gameplay situations in game.

Sorry to come across as harsh, but that's precisely the type of feedback that just makes people not read the rest of your posts

...in particular when you haven't even played the game with the changes live yet

So then tell us whats the roll soldiers have in FC minds, surely cant be the one of tanking in pvp, since so many can ignore our defence, at least we can understand your view better. Fixers and agents can use FA, aimed shot its used by 99% of people who pvp, what exactlly its a soldier ?

[Armus]

Well grats boosting specials to make AO into insta gank fest again, with more and more profession getting ability to just fire off 2-3 40% attacks (as+fa, as +fa+ sneak, sneak+backstab+dimach+as etc...) in 1-2s (using hotswap or dualwield), instakilling ppl before they can react. This is the exact thing you wanted to avoid when you made the 40% caps in the first place. I think most ppl would prefer PvP where they acutally get to use their toolset.

Before ppl could at least get RRFE and be hit for a maximum of 28% of their total health to prevent this, but now you have boosted special caps with more than 40% against players with RRFE.

Is this really true? In case it is then it has is the doom of all support profs.

[Loucretia]

I guess we need to wait and see how this works. I have a horrible feeling that all this will achieve is to make some profs overpowered, only they wont be the same profs that were overpowered yesterday. It just seems like moving profs around on the viability ladder rather than evening things out.

[Silirrion]

Do you honestly think its a good thing to seriously nerf the single defense that soldiers have? if so then why?

We wouldn't do it if we thought it was a bad thing Given that I think its fair to say that we felt that shield users in general would not be hurt in the overall balance by being a little easier to kill.

Please remember though, as we have said all along, if after people play with the new changes and get used to it we see that some further additions etc might be needed then we will look to see what can be done, so its not like this is a random action that we won't develop further if the need arises.

[Silirrion]

It sure did. But for NW not nearly as much as the introduction of orbital strikes does.
For tl3-tl4 and alot of tl5 it is all about orbitals now. 5 220's turn up and just nuke until ppl give up. No defenders even show because they don't have to.
So yeah. This is getting more and more pronounced. It's the new zerg and this one you have no way of killing it. Just evading if you're lucky.

It definitely affects the number of ppl pvping. And it will affect the numbers even more in the long run because pvt+orbital dodging isn't pvp and it isn't enjoyable.

Any chance of a remedy to this orbital zerging?

the orbital strikes we are still discussing and considering, we still might consider increasing the time between strikes.

[Esqi]

How about changing the deflection amplifier to hud1/2/3 and allowing the +10 reflect ac to drop?

It may alleviate some of the soldier concerns re this patch.

[deniska]

the orbital strikes we are still discussing and considering, we still might consider increasing the time between strikes.

You might also wanna consider making the laser marker one use only

[Silirrion]

How about changing the deflection amplifier to hud1/2/3 and allowing the +10 reflect ac to drop?

It may alleviate some of the soldier concerns re this patch.

Item additions and changes are certainly one way that we might look to make changes in if we feel additional changes are needed

[Esqi]

Item additions and changes are certainly one way that we might look to make changes in if we feel additional changes are needed

Well yes i understand how the knife can cut both ways..how about rubbing us up for once :P

Honestly, the specials hitting through ams+bracer are doing approximately on average 70%-90% more damage to soldiers, surely we werent so high up the ladder that we deserve this.

Just introduce plan b (hud1/2/3 +10) and let us soldiers mend our backsides from the pain the double decker bus of AO just gave us.

[Silirrion]

Well yes i understand how the knife can cut both ways..how about rubbing us up for once :P

Honestly, the specials hitting through ams+bracer are doing approximately on average 70%-90% more damage to soldiers, surely we werent so high up the ladder that we deserve this.

Just introduce plan b (hud1/2/3 +10) and let us soldiers mend our backsides from the pain the double decker bus of AO just gave us.

As i said, if there is a significant negative impact for certain professions we will look at it, can't say any fairer then that. We aren't though going to make any presumptions until you guys have had a chance to adapt and we see how the change pans out on the live dimensions.

...and in general since you asked, we certainly don't consider Soldiers to be a weak PVP profession and wouldn't have made these changes if we didn't feel that overall the profession (and the others effected by the shield change) would be able to shoulder these changes.