As of 17.2, soldiers will be the only prof without a PVP defense

[Bereavement]

Assuming you get it right and give MP's the much needed ability to be effective in PVP at tl7, what do you plan to do to give soldiers a defense for PVP?

[Syyceria]

If soldiers are the only profession without any defense, how come i see so many
high-titled soldiers running around the battlestation? Do they re-farm their
titles from orgmates after loosing them to all those professions with defense?

[Bereavement]

Because it's the BS and titles mean absolutely nothing in there. Any gimp can get expert in one day by doing the most damage, running around and capping points with other people, it's a big gankfest so you'll see any prof with a high title running around. To counter your point, i see a lot of neo/ novice traders running around, so why should they get more PVP lub? Titles are irrelevant and they always have been.


So back to the issue, what does FC have planned to give soldiers a defense?

[Yue]

ams still beats the crap out of the insta deaths on evade professions and enfs on bs.

[Syyceria]

Because it's the BS and titles mean absolutely nothing in there. Any gimp can get expert in one day by doing the most damage, running around and capping points with other people, it's a big gankfest so you'll see any prof with a high title running around. To counter your point, i see a lot of neo/ novice traders running around, so why should they get more PVP lub? Titles are irrelevant and they always have been.

To counter your points: The only other trader i know that has a title of Neophyte got it pre-NW and never PvP'd after the trader-nerf. The defense of a Novice-trader is a 30 second reflect shield that is ignored by engineer, NT and everyone with a weapon that deals cold or poison damage. That looks inferior to your defense.

Soldier having no defense is an exaggeration and looking at their offensive and defensive toolset, i don't think they should complain. Maybe you should try to watch out for NTs and trader and run away when you spot one, and not only when your AMS is about to run out as in pre-LE? You know, like all those professions with inferior defenses have to do?

[Stick]

Assuming you get it right and give MP's the much needed ability to be effective in PVP at tl7, what do you plan to do to give soldiers a defense for PVP?

did you play an enf in BS lately?

[Yue]

To counter your points: The only other trader i know that has a title of Neophyte got it pre-NW and never PvP'd after the trader-nerf. The defense of a Novice-trader is a 30 second reflect shield that is ignored by engineer, NT and everyone with a weapon that deals cold or poison damage. That looks inferior to your defense.

actually i know an expert trader that got his title post 17.1 in bs. doesnt really mean anything to me anyway. title arguments are zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. but then again soldiers with ams still stand longer than anyone else. except maybe nts with guard and trader with ns up even tho the latter doesnt last as long and isnt really as reliable as ams.

[Harios]

Yep soldiers got screwed with reflect nerf, triple nukes and trader nemesis nano... same as enfs, it only got worse.

[Mrstabber]

Because it's the BS and titles mean absolutely nothing in there.

Actually means something.The majority of high titled (legit ones)professions in this game are :
-Soldiers
-Fixers
-Agents
-Advs
-Keepers (not so many tho)
Ofc there are MPs/Crats/Shades/Traders and rest,but they are the exceptions(and ofc you had to point the exceptions ).
Well my point is that this professions reached this titled because they had quite a good defense and they were not dieing so often like other professions.

The title it's quite a big aberration."soldiers will be the only prof without a PVP defense".
As long as Soldiers have AMS they are not defenseless.
About the only part let me tell you few profession with less defense than a soldier:
-Traders (drop like stones)
-Shades (evades won't help me much when since I'm getting quite high dmg or even caps with Burst/FA/AS/Sneak/dimach etc)
-MPs (did sucked and will suck more cause I doupt FC will overpower them,prob will give them some more AoD or some evades or something but will still get hard caps,I mean even MAs,which have quite uber evades+AOD and still getting big time hits,I doupt they'll give MPs more evades/AOD them MAs have ,but than again you know how FC is ..always surprising ).
-Enfos (no need to explain here)
You still need about 4-5 guys (non NTs tho) to drop an AMSed soldier if not more.You need same amount of guys to take an advy/keeper down the difference is they go down a lot faster.Open your eyes sols are not anywhere NEAR defenseless.

[Bereavement]

That's why i said "will be" and "assuming they get it right" so it would be illogical to use mp's and traders as an example in this instance.

[Yue]

A
-Shades (evades won't help me much when since I'm getting quite high dmg or even caps with Burst/FA/AS/Sneak/dimach etc)

and hows that different for mas?

[Mrstabber]

and hows that different for mas?

Well those were just few examples,the list it's bigger tho...Crats/MAs and so on.MAs are on almost same line with shades ,cept they have heals(which makes me think of Jaros sarcastic post )

[Pafpuf]

WTT AMS for broken evades and AAD, pst.

[Yue]

Well those were just few examples,the list it's bigger tho...Crats/MAs and so on.MAs are on almost same line with shades ,cept they have heals(which makes me think of Jaros sarcastic post )

well yeah true my heals are still better than having nothing at all like you really but i wish i could actually use them instead of corpse healing myself.

much hp wont help me. low hp wont help me as you will see below:

http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?i...psehealbs4.jpg

[Ithnag]

actually i know an expert trader that got his title post 17.1 in bs. doesnt really mean anything to me anyway. title arguments are zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. but then again soldiers with ams still stand longer than anyone else. except maybe nts with guard and trader with ns up even tho the latter doesnt last as long and isnt really as reliable as ams.

And Engineers, and taking double the damage we took under AMS pre 17.1, and still having no evades or heals, so lets sum up, yes soldiers still have a defense, reflects, but it got terrible nerfed.

Soldiers were like number 6 in PvP as profesion, that's far from being one of the top clases, more like, being in the midle (that should mean balanced... just like enfos, but a bit better perhaps)

Soldiers have no healing power, nor evades nor absorbs (damn absorbs were nerfed too anyway)

People with less defenses than soldier got screwed too as they lost RRFE for a big part of the damage that it's been dealt in PvP (mass) nowadays

Soldiers have 3 nemesis profesions, and the 3 of them can completely nullify their only defense (engies are so kind they leave us with a max of 32% reflects if we cast the best posible reflect in game, but of course they ignore specials, so...)

The changes don't benefit directly those that were already weaker than soldiers (they also lost reflects) as they are still the weaker links on the chain, but those that are stronger do benefit from this, increasing ther relative power agaisnt the entire group ud those weaker than them.

What about empowering the weak to make them play in the same league as the strong (without turning them into what NT's are now) or at least put them close, instead of braking those that are in balance to drop them down. AH FC wants everybody to die in few seconds, as the proces of death before being able to use your tools is fun and balanced (i mean all in general, not soldiers only) and they also consider that their vision of balance in Mass PvP can bypass the problem of the true overpowered professions.

Enforcers didn't need a cocoon nerf to be balanced at all, Soldiers didn't need another reflect nerf to be balanced (3 nemesis profesions that take down reflects in diferent, but all deadly ways should be enough in the "mass PvP balance" scenario if that worried people) So what's the real idea of this? how will enforcers cope with the huge amounts of damage they take, no efficient way of mitigating and their current healing capabilities?

Same about soldiers, even less healing and self NSD for 2 mins if we use AMS/TMS. Yes there are a couple profesions with less, but it probably would have been a good idea to give them something, instead of taking from pretty balanced profesions.

[Racatti]

So by not being to able to tank a dozen opponents anymore you got left without a defense? Give me a break.

[Ithnag]

Raccati, i know saying no defense is too much, but... in mass PvP reflects were already countered by engies, traders and NT's, what's the need of further nerf? i see fixers that can stan in the middle of a crowd and never get hit, you mean evades for fixers should be nerfed? Rmember soldier have no other defense at all, no heals, no evades, no absorbs.

The OP exagerates when saying thet we are gonna be totally defenseless, but pretty much we got our only defense reduced to the point of being of too little use, in Mass PvP specially. If a soldier was tanking 12 people before, those 12 people were very unlucky, and for sure no trader, NT or engineer was among them, the same way if 12 people without AS go against a fixer they may stand there missing all shots till the fixer decides to leave, so, what's your point?

[Boltgun]

Dammit stop it already ! Soldiers defense are still here, they have been lowered too much in my taste but taking 3k full autos is defence.

Everyone have lower defence in 17.1, soldiers and everyone else. Keep claiming that soldiers are at the very bottom and we can be sure that we're not looked at.

[Racatti]

Evades are nerfed just fine, I never got capped by FA before 17.1. As for a fixer standing in the middle of a crowd not gettin hit... that must be an afk crowd. 3 capping specials kill a fixer in a split-second. Solja is still fine against anyone 1-on-1 (NOT talking about duel). As for in team situ, I still can't think of a more deadly squad than a couple of sols.

P.S.: Evades are not working against regular hits at all.

[Ithnag]

a couple of NT's