As of 17.2, soldiers will be the only prof without a PVP defense

[Highsummoner]

so going by what you said.. since we dont even know what mp/trader will be getting.. and as far as we know nothing else will change for other professions..

that means right now you put sol just above or on par with mp/trader correct?
and that the new 17.2 mp/trader defense additions (what ever they maybe)
will be enough to put mp/trader on top of sol.. making sol the new gutter pvp profession?.. i just wanna make sure i understood you right..

in that case /disco

i finally get to go pwn me some high level sol's *throws a party*

WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!
you have no clue soliders can get 3k ar self you have no problems and with your new ofab shark you can cap FA with 3 bullets. DO NOT EVEN SAY THAT YOU ARE ON PAR WITH A MP OR TRADER YOU HAVE NO CLUE AT ALL!

[windcaster]

WTF WTF WTF!!!!!!
you have no clue soliders can get 3k ar self you have no problems and with your new ofab shark you can cap FA with 3 bullets. DO NOT EVEN SAY THAT YOU ARE ON PAR WITH A MP OR TRADER YOU HAVE NO CLUE AT ALL!

are you even responding to the right post?

[Highsummoner]

posting that about whoever originally said that ^^^^

[Ithnag]

Well, advies can kill soldiers, they can acro, heal, cocoon and pretty much tank the whole way trhu ams, keepers can also kill soldiers, and probably i'm missing some, a fixer can simply root the soldier and stay away till AMS goes out, wich gives them a decent fighting chance, MA's can do pretty much the same, heal up and then go for the kill after ams. No most of those wouldn't be easy kills against the soldier, but they are fighting chances, now, the idea behind this changes is "mass PvP balance" wich means no 1 on 1 fights are to be considered, so in reality, in the idea of FC pvP scenario, anybody could kill a soldier (pre nerf) cause their group had access to 3 posible ways to counter the reflects, so any need to further reduce reflects efectivity seems really innecesary, and end up crippling soldiers a lot.

[windcaster]

it was in reply to the OP, the whole thread is about how sol's have no defense and is the only profession without a defense as of 17.2..

which implies that mp/trader are on par or just slightly below sol now and any improvement will bump us above sol's.. that was a sarcastic post but none the less one asking for the OP if that is their belief / opinion.

[Ithnag]

posting that about whoever originally said that ^^^^

Yes the original post is a terrible comparation and exageration, that is true.

[Beetjoo]

<-220 ai 21 I have no problem with the ams nerf still can tank 4-5people with ams unless nt/trader but not only that but to be able to get 2800-3k AR or having 17 - 20k+HP isn't enough? an I also have a 220shade that I pvp. Soldiers are farless nerfed than alot of us. Man I wish I could ams on a shade an tank 4-5people or just have the 20k+hp

[twinkcrat]

ithnag do you have any idea what an alpha is? advies can't get enough evades to help them dodge anything a soldier throws then the soldier 1 shots away coon with full auto possibly doing 40% of the advies life in the process then he reloads and bursts swaps weapons then as's swaps again and again until advy = dead as for the ma same thing and the fixers root goes away with those totw rods/stim things and then just burst/fa/as/perk and laugh at the dead fixer

[Highsummoner]

<-220 ai 21 I have no problem with the ams nerf still can tank 4-5people with ams unless nt/trader but not only that but to be able to get 2800-3k AR or having 17 - 20+HP isn't enough? an I also have a 220shade that I pvp. Soldiers are farless nerfed that alot of us. Man I wish I could ams on a shade an tank 4-5people or just have the 20k+hp

wow a honest sol thanks for your input man

[Lukesays]

Just a general question, how often do people run into traders or engineers in the BS? I can count the number of active trader pvpers i have seen on one hand, and there aren't a lot of pvp engies either. Lots of NT's are pvping now but I expect that to die down once the novelty of being a viable pvp profession goes away.

Among all 3 servers:
there are under 200 220 traders
there are under 500 220 engies
there are under 400 220 nt's
there are over 800 220 sols
there are about 7k 220's altogether
This does not take into account game activity or pvp activity, a higher percentage of sols pvp than any of those 3 classes.

The odds are that only 1 out of 7 of the people you run into will be one of these nemesis profs. I agree the specials cap/reflect nerf is wrong but the 3 nemesis profs makes sense, if AMS/TMS still worked correctly in pvp.

[Boltgun]

ithnag do you have any idea what an alpha is? advies can't get enough evades to help them dodge anything a soldier throws then the soldier 1 shots away coon with full auto possibly doing 40% of the advies life in the process then he reloads and bursts swaps weapons then as's swaps again and again until advy = dead as for the ma same thing and the fixers root goes away with those totw rods/stim things and then just burst/fa/as/perk and laugh at the dead fixer

You didn't play a soldier a lot didn't you ?

[twinkcrat]

no your right i got no idea on how a soldier deals with these professions but im sure the fight would be over in less then 30 seconds

[Beetjoo]

I do an I say twink was right on the money. But then again there are soldiers that don't swap an just use the 11sec AS oO

[Tepamina]

ithnag do you have any idea what an alpha is? advies can't get enough evades to help them dodge anything a soldier throws then the soldier 1 shots away coon with full auto possibly doing 40% of the advies life in the process then he reloads and bursts swaps weapons then as's swaps again and again until advy = dead as for the ma same thing and the fixers root goes away with those totw rods/stim things and then just burst/fa/as/perk and laugh at the dead fixer

Soldiers have a really tough time killing advies. You forgot to mention that advies heal. MAs and fixers are easier, however fixers can always root and escape.

[Dugglerrr]

Soldiers have a really tough time killing advies. You forgot to mention that advies heal. MAs and fixers are easier, however fixers can always root and escape.

Everybody has a really tough time killing advies, except maybe when an NT is around.

[Boltgun]

no your right i got no idea on how a soldier deals with these professions but im sure the fight would be over in less then 30 seconds

A couple of proffs can kill a soldier 9 times out of tens. A lot stand a chance and some are dominated. And 2 soldiers can get pretty much everyone in trouble.

Where you are right is that soldiers are better in pvp then a lot of proffs. Many whines (like the original post) are way too much.
What happened is that the soldiers take twice the damage from alphas in AMS4 and prenullity sphere (38%) is useless against them, but that's the case of everyone with RRFE. Last patches hit the defence specialists (sols, enfs, fixs) a lot more.

My own whine is that while our defence gets lower, it still remove us the use of anything that require nanoskills, and we can't capture a node. Making us cardboard in some situations.
With the last change a swap cost more then half our health, and the fight is much faster at 1v2. Or 1v3. Well I lost my ability to run in the place first and not get ganked while the other come in. Losing what make you unique sucks.

[Aros]

P.S.: Evades are not working against regular hits at all.

??? Did I miss something ???

Last time I checked a well made 220 opi evade fixer will not get hit from regular hits unless someone uses MR.

And even FA/Burst&Fling/Fast and Brawl queit often miss.

Fixer evades are still top of the line and still almost impossible to overcome.

But then Sols still have AMS. It is oly like 25% as good as it was before, but it is still not useless.

[Lillagumman]

damn i love creating controversy

P.S. Solders were overpowered in pvp they needed a nerf comparing ams to rrfe is foolish 3 is the number of professions that can kill soldiers and thats after the nerf also 2 of those there aren't even that many of

you arent creating controversy. you are showing your complete lack of knowledge when it comes to soldiers..
yes soldiers can kill most support professions. Not all and not vDoes that mean that soldiers are overpowered? Compared to what? Compared to crats that can kill pretty much any pet profession + MAs, shades without that much trouble.
Sure soldiers can kill lots but taking 3k FAs is a big hit on anybody and without the means to really heal it back up again then yes soldiers took a big dive in pvp powers.
No we cant tank plenty of enemys but yes we are still a powerful alpha profession. I would though see the evader that doesnt evade my FA and burst since those can be evaded (yes fixers whine again about alldef or evades being bugged but FC didnt change anything in that department so ..) so that alpha isnt all that versus those, and versus those that have cocoon lots of it is "eaten up" and some can heal up what we dish out if not taken completely "off guard"

engies remove a large part of soldiers reflect
traders steal all of it
NTs ignore all of it.
now NTs got reflect that is actually more useful than anything versus the NT nukes.

you actually need to try something more than forum pvp Alpha without defence isnt all that. Always easy to jump the bandwagon and say soldiers are overpowered and nerf us when we actually were quite balanced before and now got a huge blow with the nerfbat.
And yes i actually feel that comparing AMS post patch to pre null before patch is pretty viable and exact when it comes to any 40% cap special(Fa, AS, backstab,sneak and the likes). That is ofcourse not true versus the normal shots and fling and brawl and such.

[twinkcrat]

before - no one had a chance to kill soldiers 1 on 1 but engineers
after - anyone with a decent as weapon has the ability to deal 25% of your life every 11 seconds whereas soldiers .... can deal 100% every 12 seconds sure fixers sometimes evade the full auto's but then just swap for your as weapon and u got another 40% hit on them

engies - were always tough for a soldier
traders - if you can't kill them i laugh at you
nt's - still squishy just alpha them before they can alpha u

advies - perk perk perk burst fa swap as fling swap burst fa mmk? they can't heal fast enough when u have 2 40% hits every 11 seconds

[lusthorne]

??? Did I miss something ???

Last time I checked a well made 220 opi evade fixer will not get hit from regular hits unless someone uses MR.

And even FA/Burst&Fling/Fast and Brawl queit often miss.

Fixer evades are still top of the line and still almost impossible to overcome.

But then Sols still have AMS. It is oly like 25% as good as it was before, but it is still not useless.

Fixers generally evade perks. Specials have a greater chance of landing (in relation to perks), as do regular hits. That's not to say that fixers aren't tough to fight, because they are. Those roots/snares and kiting tactics paired with their recently enhanced weapon setup choices make them definitely a force to reckon with.

AMS is useful when there isn't a Trader, Engineer, or NT around (of which one of the 3 is very often handy), otherwise it is completely useless, it will either be stolen by the trader, ripped by the engi, or flat out ignored by the nt (and coincidentally temporarily disabled when the nt uses a piercing nuke).

Furthermore, AMS is of limited use on the new battlestations since soldiers cannot capture a control point with their only defense up (which leads to debates like why can cocoon profs capture points with cocoon fired off while soldiers can't capture with ams).