Friday with Means - February 6th, 2009

[Kaylinne]

Then the answer is Nothing, as the content is PvM not PvP.

Nothing in AO is strictly PvM or PvP.
If there are only new playfields no matter how interesting they might be for you, I might not find them worth enough to buy the booster. Mind I am saying *might*.

But if those new playfields come with new loot tables that can make significant difference in my toon development, I might find it worth. Its not just about items, its how those items affect my gameplay. If they could be significant enough (in my opinion) to change my enjoyment in whatever aspect of the game I like, then I can decide the booster pack is actually worth buying.

But to decide on that I would need much more info than I have right now.

[aramsunat]

180mil??? 360mil???

seriously?


Why do people insist on puting pointless hinderances into the game?

The only reason a person would want it to cost this much is because they have a buttload of creds and have no consideration for people less well off.


1-5 mil is reasonable. for the whole thing, no scaling. flat fee.

180 hours????

Do you enjoy not playing the game???

i mean really...

good and profitable idea for FC:

for 100.000 paid points let all endgame stuff to be transferred on a character.
another 100.000 for straight AI 30.
another for lvl 220

so you can make your endgame char in 5 minutes and dont have to bother with the boring aspects of the game... just play it!

[IHaveHugeNick]

Actually, items and profession development are the only reason why most people would get the booster.

New content brings fun gameplay of course, usually for about first 2-4 weeks until you beat it all back and forth 10 times. At that point it turns into farming (and recent instances required a lot more then beating them 10 times to get all the needed loot), and if it wont have any useful items, or nothing that can be farmed and sold, it will simply die.

- the solution for perk resets sounds perfect. Just chill down on the prices a bit, dont make it as insane as reset points. 100m for a full reset should be reasonable. So does making it Title Level based.

-instanced cities sound like fun

- i like keeping some information behind closed door. "How-to" threads poping by the very second when patch goes live were always pissing me off.

[Kaylinne]

good and profitable idea for FC:

for 100.000 paid points let all endgame stuff to be transferred on a character.
another 100.000 for straight AI 30.
another for lvl 220

so you can make your endgame char in 5 minutes and dont have to bother with the boring aspects of the game... just play it!

Play what?

[Wrangeline]

So lets say 3mil per perk that you have trained. So a 220/30/70 (all trained) would cost 180mil while a 100/5/14 (all trained) would cost 45mil.

This method would allow people to reperk faster and the cost would be inline with what people can afford and yet be a good credit sink. That 220/30/70 toon would require 360mil to double reset

I personally think that's way to expensive. I honestly don't think the fee has to be more than a novelty fee. Like a million at 220 for example. The money is not important here. The reset is not there to be a credit sink. The reset is there so we can reset. The important thing is the timer, not the price.

This kinda falls into the same category as having to pay godly amounts of credits or time in BS to be allowed to change your IP-setup once you run out of IPR's. Insisting on these high prices is something that I just don't understand. Why would 300 mil to do a perk reset make the game better than having it be 10 mil? Why this need to have sky high prices on everything? Credit sinks? Not everyone need credit sinks. Not everyone is rich. Not everyone has capped credits on 5+ characters.

I personally have tried my very best to make money since I came back to AO some months ago. Because I had 0 credits and little gear, so I had to make it all back. Since then I have probably not made enough credits to do even ONE perk reset at the price you suggested. I have killed 100-130 inferno dynas, killed 70-100ish legchoppers, farmed missions for pearls, farmed BBQ-pillows, ql 230+ rings from borgs, totw services and so on. The fact that I have found nothing good on inf dynas and such is a reason I haven't made much credits but I have tried.

For me, any reason for resetting my perks will still make the reset procedure a bit painful based solely on the cooldown timer to change my perks back. The added cost simply turns it into another thing that becomes a grind and ultimately boring as hell. I'm here to have fun, not to spend 8-10 hours of my day, every day, running the credit-farm wheel like a hamster for the rest of my life. This is not why I am here.

If perk resets cost a lot of credits then I can't and wont use it. Because I'm not rich. Still, I deserve to reset my perks just as much as rich people do. So high prices screw "poor" people over, for no reason what so ever.

[aramsunat]

Play what?

/sarcasm

your main is a fixer? Oo

[Kaylinne]

/sarcasm

your main is a fixer? Oo

Amazing isnt it?

[ThePartisan]

10 mill MAX for a full reset.

If it's gonna cost something like 100 mill, it's totally pointless. The time you save on the perk reset you'll have to waste making the money for it = no improvement. Much like profession nanodecks.. we're gonna punish you for this "improvement" just because we say so!

[Technogen]

You gotta remember that there's also this huge credit sink made from it. There are enough players complaining about having to many credits as it is.

[Hulk]

If PR ends up costing too much it will.

A. Be a benifet only to those who either sploited creds or are filthy rich through some other means.

B. Be a benifet to credit sellers.

C. Not be very fair to newer players, unless (refer to B)


Putting a huge cred sink on a universal service that everone needs to use as a game function is a bad idea.

some people have billions upon billions,

even if PR costs 300 mil it wouldnt dent their wallet. while it would be sucking all the hard earned creds away from legitimate players.

And to Rimorsimon, don't be retarded, people already spent countless hours grinding and farming and working hard, don't act like a modest fee like 5 mil is going to enable easy mode on the game. you are completely over exagerating the fact in a way that seems to be completely unoriginal sarcasm.

[Hulk]

I personally think that's way to expensive. I honestly don't think the fee has to be more than a novelty fee. Like a million at 220 for example. The money is not important here. The reset is not there to be a credit sink. The reset is there so we can reset. The important thing is the timer, not the price.

This kinda falls into the same category as having to pay godly amounts of credits or time in BS to be allowed to change your IP-setup once you run out of IPR's. Insisting on these high prices is something that I just don't understand. Why would 300 mil to do a perk reset make the game better than having it be 10 mil? Why this need to have sky high prices on everything? Credit sinks? Not everyone need credit sinks. Not everyone is rich. Not everyone has capped credits on 5+ characters.

I personally have tried my very best to make money since I came back to AO some months ago. Because I had 0 credits and little gear, so I had to make it all back. Since then I have probably not made enough credits to do even ONE perk reset at the price you suggested. I have killed 100-130 inferno dynas, killed 70-100ish legchoppers, farmed missions for pearls, farmed BBQ-pillows, ql 230+ rings from borgs, totw services and so on. The fact that I have found nothing good on inf dynas and such is a reason I haven't made much credits but I have tried.

For me, any reason for resetting my perks will still make the reset procedure a bit painful based solely on the cooldown timer to change my perks back. The added cost simply turns it into another thing that becomes a grind and ultimately boring as hell. I'm here to have fun, not to spend 8-10 hours of my day, every day, running the credit-farm wheel like a hamster for the rest of my life. This is not why I am here.

If perk resets cost a lot of credits then I can't and wont use it. Because I'm not rich. Still, I deserve to reset my perks just as much as rich people do. So high prices screw "poor" people over, for no reason what so ever.

Completely and 100% agree. well said.

[rustinel]

...never seen anything so in touch with a playerbase as this before...

You should all get cake.

Cheers,

Colin "Means" Cragg

Means, you are the nekkid Opi in my cake \o/

[Lheann]

180mil??? 360mil???

seriously?


Why do people insist on puting pointless hinderances into the game?

The only reason a person would want it to cost this much is because they have a buttload of creds and have no consideration for people less well off.


1-5 mil is reasonable. for the whole thing, no scaling. flat fee.

180 hours????

Do you enjoy not playing the game???

i mean really...

Actually had you taken the scaling idea and just adjusted the time and cost per perk level in your response I would have been more open to your response. Means said at least 100% faster. That is what I used for my time value for a full perk reset.

So lets just adjust the cost from 3mil to 100k per perk and time to 15minutes per perk. So 60 perks would be 6mil more inline with your response and the time would 15 hours. While the 15 perk person would be 1.5mil and 3 hours 45 minutes. Is that a more suitable solution for you?

Part of putting ideas out here is to get feedback and adjust them as needed. I think the sliding scale by level is more true noob friendly than a fixed fee. I sure would hate to pay 5m for my 24 twink to reset her 4 perks and then spend the same 5mil for my 212 MA for a whole lot more perks. Devalues the systems on one end and makes it unfeasible on the other.

You see with a little adjustment this solution is viable and in the cost/time range that others are putting out there. If you don't do a sliding scale someone will say that the time out is greater than than doing it the old way on lower level toons and others will say it is not fast enough on the 220's. Though with the adjusted numbers I think 15 hours is pretty fast for 60 perk reset twice.

I enjoy playing a game that dynamics systems that adjust for my characters level vice fixed value/time system.

[Klodovik]

Q - What evil has Macrosun wrought this week?

A - Macrosun would like you all to know he has:

...

Been using all the powers of his brain to combat BS synch issues. He has found a significant issue and fxed it. I don't understand what it was. So don't ask.

So, does that means that if I have a nano with 40m range and I'm running after/away from that pesky shade, I don't have to be in 4-5 meter range anymore to cast it successfully?

[Wrangeline]

You gotta remember that there's also this huge credit sink made from it. There are enough players complaining about having to many credits as it is.

There are people complaining about having too much credits? Damn, I'd like to have that problem.
If you mean that there are people who feel there's too much credits going around in AO atm, which in turn make items too expensive, then that's probably true. However, creating these sick random credit sinks to fix it is NOT the right way to solve the problem.

Perk resets should by nature be available to everyone. Poor and rich people alike. At least to a degree. By introducing these sick credit sinks the prices of items might go down 2% because people have a little less money to spend but then everyone will earn 2% less by selling items so nothing much changes there. Big credit sinks on perk resets make them unobtainable to "poor" people like me from the very start and that's not right.

[Wrangeline]

If PR ends up costing too much it will.

A. Be a benifet only to those who either sploited creds or are filthy rich through some other means.

B. Be a benifet to credit sellers.

C. Not be very fair to newer players, unless (refer to B)


Putting a huge cred sink on a universal service that everone needs to use as a game function is a bad idea.

some people have billions upon billions,

even if PR costs 300 mil it wouldnt dent their wallet. while it would be sucking all the hard earned creds away from legitimate players.

And to Rimorsimon, don't be retarded, people already spent countless hours grinding and farming and working hard, don't act like a modest fee like 5 mil is going to enable easy mode on the game. you are completely over exagerating the fact in a way that seems to be completely unoriginal sarcasm.

Exactly.

[Gracee]

I personally have tried my very best to make money since I came back to AO some months ago. Because I had 0 credits and little gear, so I had to make it all back. Since then I have probably not made enough credits to do even ONE perk reset at the price you suggested. I have killed 100-130 inferno dynas, killed 70-100ish legchoppers, farmed missions for pearls, farmed BBQ-pillows, ql 230+ rings from borgs, totw services and so on. The fact that I have found nothing good on inf dynas and such is a reason I haven't made much credits but I have tried.

*snips*

If perk resets cost a lot of credits then I can't and wont use it. Because I'm not rich. Still, I deserve to reset my perks just as much as rich people do. So high prices screw "poor" people over, for no reason what so ever.

From what I am reading I understand it to be that you quit previously and have returned recently with little to nothing.
Did you give away all your creds and phats when you left the game?

I understand that you are making an effort to make credits now but your situation is unique and you sort of made the bed you are lying in on your own.

Changes to the game shouldn't be based on this type of situation (if what I am reading is correct). Players that make extreme choices, such as quitting and giving away their stuff then returning, will be at a disadvantage because of their own doing rather that it be the game mechanics or community's fault. You reap what you sow rather than become entitled to the same benefits that people who didn't take extreme measures get.

You can't give away all your money in real life and then complain about the cost of luxury.
Not a flame, just perspective.

[Technogen]

It's possible for almost any 220 to make 100m an Hr blixing RK missions... If you dont have credits it's because you're 1 in SL, 2 Not trying.

[Wrangeline]

From what I am reading I understand it to be that you quit previously and have returned recently with little to nothing.
Did you give away all your creds and phats when you left the game?

I understand that you are making an effort to make credits now but your situation is unique and you sort of made the bed you are lying in on your own.

Changes to the game shouldn't be based on this type of situation (if what I am reading is correct). Players that make extreme choices, such as quitting and giving away their stuff then returning, will be at a disadvantage because of their own doing rather that it be the game mechanics or community's fault. You reap what you sow rather than become entitled to the same benefits that people who didn't take extreme measures get.

You can't give away all your money in real life and then complain about the cost of luxury.
Not a flame, just perspective.

I understand what you are saying and my situation can be classified as unique but I'm not really looking at this solely from my perspective. I think of the playerbase in general.

By your definition (if its ok to call it that), only those who have played for years and NOT given away anything should be allowed to afford these resets. This is not exactly your "average playerbase".

Cost of general services such as resets should NEVER be based on the richest and oldest in a game.

In fact, I find it strange that we are now arguing over the COST rather than the cooldown. Means said: "Speaking with an NPC and paying a modest fee will clear your current perk setup."

He said a modest fee. Modest is modest. Modest is NOT a credit SINK for super wealthy high levels who have farmed everything they currently own for years. I would have had well over a billion credits myself if I never gave anything away but I would still not have given any support for a reset that was treated like a credit-sink.

Means also said there might be a lot of arguing and flaming over the timer. Yet here we are, arguing over the cost

Topics like these really irritate me. It's just like the "we want a new free full IPR"-thread. It's full of people who want stuff to cost a lot of credits or to take a lot of effort. They pretty much always fail to give a clear reason as to why it is a good idea for these things to cost so much.

I have not heard a good reason yet as to why these perk resets should cost a lot of money either.

I perfectly agree with "modest". It should be modest. If people want to waste money on stuff then they can give a few hundred mil to a level 1 alt and then delete that alt. Whatever reason these people have for wanting arbitrary overpowered credit sinks, just don't force them on me please. I don't need a credit sink. However I need to reset from time to time.

Actually, it's those that are currently NOT wearing perfect armor and implants and have 6 billion credits that mostly need to do FULL perk resets. They need to equip higher symbiants for example. Those who already have everything they need and all the money in the world, they probably don't mind paying sick amount of credits for resets as they probably are done with their resets by now and just enjoy watching new players suffer

[Hulk]

It's possible for almost any 220 to make 100m an Hr blixing RK missions... If you dont have credits it's because you're 1 in SL, 2 Not trying.

100m an hour wtf are u blitzing?? I'm guessing that it's the same thing you're smoking