Defense check discussion

[Phargus]

First impression:

Ken si: Nasty perk, but with 50%dodge+50%evade this perk will almost never land. MPs have the worst ar out there with the exception of docs

Demolitions: Same issue here. Now that these perks can only be executed with a grenade weapon equipped a lower defense check on these or a major boost to grenade ar is needed...

That's what I noticed from profs I play. I'm sure others got more...

[Xenotric]

should give a boost to all the attack skills for support proffesion offensive skills based on what there technically good at.

For example

MP's get a certain nanoskill check to the offense

Engi's get tradeskill check

Fixers get break an entry

Docs get treatment

so on so forth.

Not to replace the original checks, nor to be a large mod, but 10-30% based on skills that while might not be very high for certain players, is buffable and not that low.

[Raynefists]

It's gonna be hard to rate the def/atk changes because the way these are calculated is going to change completely. AAO and AAD aren't going to be nearly as powerful. People will need to adjust their gear and the values people are accustomed to for comparing will change.

[Phargus]

It's gonna be hard to rate the def/atk changes because the way these are calculated is going to change completely. AAO and AAD aren't going to be nearly as powerful. People will need to adjust their gear and the values people are accustomed to for comparing will change.

I'm aware that the proposed changes means aad will not be counted in nr perk defense checks, and aao will not be counted in offense checks for perks with nanoskills as ar. The perks I mention are checking against dodge/evade/duck wich means aad will still be counted in

[Mountaingoat]

Engineer's already have tradeskill checking perks, the problem was a lot of them checked against nanoresist. The lowest NR profession with the lowest aad is probably a sold, but even they have a few hundred aad on top of ~1800 NR and remain unperkable to an engi with say 2.1k in a tskill without being in buffing gear. For all the other professions, they just won't land at all without MR. But aad isn't going to be added to NR anymore for perk checks so that will help.

Also, means said:

"We will change attack skills and defense checks to make sure that professions
with previously less-than-useful perk specials now will be able to utilize said
specials."

So I don't think perk checks have been addressed yet in these proposed changes, at least I hope not.

[Xenotric]

AAD not effecting nanoresist will make a big difference for many perks and casters, im pretty sure that those that wont be able to land on them after that change would only require a few additional points from a less used skill to push them into the realm of the maybe-maybenot point atleast

[Dancingrage]

Yup, if Ken Si were TS or MC vs NR then it'd be a very useful perk in pvp, as it is it'll be highly useful in pvm and that's about it, and not even against endgame bosses.

As it is however, I look forward to perking the Beast finally in PvM raiding. I'm sick of being useless in raids because Starfall checks NR AND AAD as well.

[Obtena]

Also, means said:

"We will change attack skills and defense checks to make sure that professions
with previously less-than-useful perk specials now will be able to utilize said
specials."

So I don't think perk checks have been addressed yet in these proposed changes, at least I hope not.

They have done it for some but not others. Let's hope they continue to evaluate them. As it stands, the Demolition perk is even MORE useless than it was previously since it's narrowed to grenade users. That's a big step backwards.

[Raynefists]

I'm aware that the proposed changes means aad will not be counted in nr perk defense checks, and aao will not be counted in offense checks for perks with nanoskills as ar. The perks I mention are checking against dodge/evade/duck wich means aad will still be counted in

yes but the levels of aad/aao that people have will necessarily change because people won't be able to use them as blanket stats to cover everything. If you want to defend against nano based perks now you will need to actually have signifigant nano resist. You can't gain nano resist for free, you're gonna have to sacrifice something, and that means either a) getting hosed by nano perks b) giving up attack rating or c) giving up def rating.

Maybe the changes won't be huge, but the changes don't have to be huge. 20 points one way or another can completely change the outcome of a perk chain, so its very hard to predict anything based purely on a list of def/atk numbers. As many people have already said, this is going to require a sandbox environment(ie testlive) for people to actually test in.

[Louderer789]

There are sme tskill perks such as chemical blindness that will be affected negatively by current proposed defensive check changes. An engineer has roughly 1800 chem and 200 aao, currently that gives them an AR of 2000/.65 = 3080 (with AAD counting fully in reducing this). With changes, engineer is reduced back down to 1800/.65 = 2770 with AAD still counting fully because it checks against duck. It's already near impossible to land blind perk even on semievaders like enfs and keepers and MPs.

I'm sure there are some other weird tskill and nanoskill perks that check vs. a normal evade currently.

[Louderer789]

Also, CONC perks will now be AR vs NR w/o AAD, which means it would almost always land except maybe on enfs, or if you are one of the few very low AR profs left (doctor, grenade engy, bow MP)