NT vs fixer (or other none-healing/absorbing targets)

[Fifty50]

I honestly don't care what Fixers have to say about how easily NTs kill them. They need to start telling Funcom that they should have more access to HP++ rather than screaming that NTs should be nerfed. Boohoo one class in 14 can make a Fixer miserable. My heart bleeds. Oh wait, no it doesn't. For every NT that wtfpwns a Fixer, there's 13 other professions that bitch, whine and complain that a Fixer is practically untouchable in the absence of a -lot- of time to try and take them down. One profession can mess up that party? Awwwww.

13 professions? lies lies lies, Iam just gonna ignore u ever said that. Anyone with half a brain knows this is not true, when AS is removed, evades are nerfed, def checks are nerfed, its back to tradeskilling for fixers like before FA got some improvement.

And HP u serious? only thing to counter NT damage is Healing, Absorbs or working CC. Anything else gets worn down so fast its not funny, without reasonable ways to fill the HP or prevent damage. Because NT damage doesn't stop at the alpha, like other professions, u can keep spamming alpha style damage every 5-7,5 seconds.

Thats said, I would be fine with that, if I even had a theoretical chance of dropping the NT myself, 3k+ Evades and defense tools does not allow it. And don't tell me u can't nuke with nano dot running.. any NT with some skills and some nano refill items, can get nukes off still... not intend I would think...

[Rurounin]

I honestly don't care what Fixers have to say about how easily NTs kill them. They need to start telling Funcom that they should have more access to HP++ rather than screaming that NTs should be nerfed. Boohoo one class in 14 can make a Fixer miserable. My heart bleeds. Oh wait, no it doesn't. For every NT that wtfpwns a Fixer, there's 13 other professions that bitch, whine and complain that a Fixer is practically untouchable in the absence of a -lot- of time to try and take them down. One profession can mess up that party? Awwwww.

You obviously have no clue about fixers, NT's are from the only profession that has it easy against fixers. You might wan't to consider bringing new arguments or atleast something that can be discussed instead of ****ty out of topic whine about how NT's doesnt need nerfing. When they clearly do, I can safely say that more professions agrees on this then on your false theory about fixers and their oh so great evades. Are you still living in 2006?

Even with ibehe and team hp good NT's can take me down easily, thats 17.5k HP right there and the only thing I can hope for is a draw or a close call.

Engineers, crat's, MP's, doctors and ranged adventurers all make life hard for a fixer, most are unbeatable if played well. (Against a doctor you can win when you hit the jackpot and manage to time your alpha accordingly).

The only professions that are relatively safe to encounter for us at the moment are: Keeper's, Shade's and Martial Artists. While even these with the click of a timed MR can take us down faster then we can say "Bah".

So don't come bringing in how 13 professions are whining about Fixer evades when you obviously have no clue about how things are at all. Go back to your beloved NT forum and troll there instead of trying to bring further inbalance.

[Mastablasta]

Not everybody stands stood while a NT is was NS2. Some people actually have a brain. Reflects also worked differently then so 40% hits were impossible unless you had 0% reflect.



{removed}

Oh, so now it's suddenly not the one on one situation where you're just alone against eachother? I don't know what you're actually trying to accomplish, it doesn't matter in the slightest that fixers could run away or what not. For one instance I remember running around in Tir fighting a fixer who kept gridding out the moment he was about to die, then came back, again and again and again and again. Since he had no stuns it was impossible for him to kill me and since it was back then impossible to perk fixers, I couldn't kill him because he gridded out. And that's how it would go with every single fixer who hadn't perked Freak Strength.

40% hits or 30% hits, it was all the same, only a matter of a few seconds more, and those few seconds were not enough.

{edited by Anarrina: removed discussion who did what when}

[Calamite]

@ Masta and Pafpuf: Take it to PMs

@ whiny fixers: AS it is now NT needs like 8 seconds to land 2 CBs and launch triple + perks which as fifty claims insta kills a fixer (which it doesn't, from my own experience unless the fixer is 210 or something). After those 8 seconds the NT is stuck in nano recharge for 6.5 seconds. How long does it take to fire off burst, FA, AS and all your damage perks? Bet it's less than that. Don't forget regular hits, they hurt NTs as well since they got no healing. So technically fixers have chances against NTs. If you can't perk an NT or can't survive triple + nano feast it's purely a matter of your equipment, something you can change. I will never believe that a fixer can't get over 11k hp without "sacrifices", I got 13k hp on my crat with full evade gear and like I said, one triple doesn't take out 90% of it, more like 50-60 which leaves me enough time to heal up and debuff/stun/kill the NT.

[Pafpuf]

Oh, so now it's suddenly not the one on one situation where you're just alone against eachother?

Since when is a 1on1 fight about standing still and waiting to die ? Like I said, some people have a brain, no decent pvper will ever stand still before a NT in NS2 plus it takes a fixer exactly 1 second to run out of the NTs range.

I find it incredible that you've played this game since 2001 yet you're still completely clueless about the basics of pvp

{edited by Anarrina: removed}

@ whiny fixers: AS it is now NT needs like 8 seconds to land 2 CBs and launch triple + perks which as fifty claims insta kills a fixer (which it doesn't, from my own experience unless the fixer is 210 or something). After those 8 seconds the NT is stuck in nano recharge for 6.5 seconds. How long does it take to fire off burst, FA, AS and all your damage perks? Bet it's less than that. Don't forget regular hits, they hurt NTs as well since they got no healing. So technically fixers have chances against NTs. If you can't perk an NT or can't survive triple + nano feast it's purely a matter of your equipment, something you can change. I will never believe that a fixer can't get over 11k hp without "sacrifices", I got 13k hp on my crat with full evade gear and like I said, one triple doesn't take out 90% of it, more like 50-60 which leaves me enough time to heal up and debuff/stun/kill the NT.

In fact it doesn't take much to kill a fixer as a NT. 2 CBs + nano feast + triple will indeed very often kill a fixer unless they have HP buffing OBs, even then it's possible if you use PO.

When it comes to fixers damaging a NT, their perks are all mediocre to low DD and spread out between 5 different damage types. Having 30% reflect and layers the NT won't even feel a fixer's perk damage. Regular hits ? 1k dmg from envy or 100 dmg from onehander, oh wow scary indeed.

You say a triple takes 50-60% of your 13k hp. Add in 2 CBs and a perk and you're well over a fixer's max HP. Also it's very puzzling that your crat can kill a NT before they can launch a second nuke, I generally killed crats before their pets even reached me

[Rurounin]

@ whiny fixers: AS it is now NT needs like 8 seconds to land 2 CBs and launch triple + perks

The only time we have mentioned you landing perks on us has been in future term for the rebalancing, try to keep up with what's happening. In the game's current state good NT's doesn't even have to bother with more then 1 CB (if any) on a fixer, they can start trippling away the moment they see us with little chance of failiure. And how the hell can you compare us to crat's who actually has working CC against NT's? Stuns, -inits, calms, the tools you need to both slow the NT down and even temporary disable the NT with fear and stun? 2350 NR, thats a 220 fixers NR, against the 90% checking tripple it's useless (86.7% chance to land it according to http://pvp.aodb.us/ARDEF/nano_calc.html, which might be a speculation build, but it's the closest thing to the truth we have).

Let's say we perked NR1, still 75% landrate on tripple before CB, let's say we added in NR buffs, down to 69%. Add in 1 CB and you have a guaranteed chance to land it more or less, even with NR buffs and NR1. We can't even begin to counter that. That's exactly why it's bloody ridiculous.
It takes our HP away fast, it can barely be countered and we have no way in hell to survive it against any NT who has a clue.

[Mastablasta]

In fact it doesn't take much to kill a fixer as a NT. 2 CBs + nano feast + triple will indeed very often kill a fixer unless they have HP buffing OBs, even then it's possible if you use PO.

When it comes to fixers damaging a NT, their perks are all mediocre to low DD and spread out between 5 different damage types. Having 30% reflect and layers the NT won't even feel a fixer's perk damage. Regular hits ? 1k dmg from envy or 100 dmg from onehander, oh wow scary indeed.

You say a triple takes 50-60% of your 13k hp. Add in 2 CBs and a perk and you're well over a fixer's max HP. Also it's very puzzling that your crat can kill a NT before they can launch a second nuke, I generally killed crats before their pets even reached me

But, it's incredible that you're so clueless about pvp that you think someone would stand still and take all this damage from the NT without doing something about it. It's not as if Fixers are completely immobile, or possible to root.
Of course, the more we hear of your pvp exploits, the more it seems you live in some sort of dreamland where the only adversaries are greens and greys who pose no threat at all. Which is the only way to explain how your fixer who deals no damage could ever dent an NT, pre-LE or not.

[Anarrina]

Masta and Pafpuf, take your personal epeen pvp bickering into private messages. Its not germane to this thread. Last warning.

[Calamite]

Also it's very puzzling that your crat can kill a NT before they can launch a second nuke, I generally killed crats before their pets even reached me

If the NT starts the fight with triple or CB + triple I consider it won. Green or clueless NTs die to Carlo + Guardian within triple recharge. If the NT is good or mediocre I can cast malaise and launch freak strength chain, which usually gives pets enough time to munch the NT. But yes, freak strength is quite hard to land, I might have to use confound with rules or succumb before, which are slow to execute but land on pretty much all NTs, not to mention having to be close and stand behind. Thus, I'm not saying NTs are easy, but if I manage to execute/land/time all that the win is mine.

I know fixers deserve a bone, I agree. But it doesn't mean NTs need to be nerfed, from my point of view NTs are quite balanced against anything that's not a fixer or shade.

[Hulk]

Well, lets see,


hear me out on this plz

NT has such a short duration of defense, it is necessary to have killing power,
Therefore IF NT's are to be nerfed on killing power, there are a lot of other aspects that need a good fix...

I would say that if NT fails nukes especially more than once it is very very bad for the NT, it takes too long with cast and recharge making it almost necessary to have CB against certain professions. (how do you propose an NT to kill an ENF? without CB?)
NR perkline, kinda OP when u look at it from an NT's perspective especially if CB is to be removed...
Drawbacks on defenses , if NT killing power is lessened then it should definitely be compensated with a viable defense. not one that runs out and leaves u depleted for minutes.
NR on Hold hell at bay.... is NR so trivialized that you get 500 on a ring??? 500!!!
that has to go also if cb is to be removed...
NR on Enforcer Rage nano and the proc - has to go...
110% blind resist has to go.
If NT dmg is to be nerfed , then nukes need to be instacast - we must stand still to kill despite our limited duration defenses, either this or a significant boost in defensive duration.

The thing is, nobody has a problem with being alphaed by an enf or soldier or MA or shade, why is this so much different? I really don't get it.
I get alphaed by these on NT , especially when Im running around all depleted. (well never alphaed by a soldier or any other ranged prof but I think thats because Im atrox ;P)

Some of you people dont really look through the eyes of the NT you only see your own agenda and cant really percieve what the NT profession would be reduced to if changes are made to their offense without other appropriate changes being made to other aspects of the game and to their profession as a whole.

[ephedrae]

Just a question, no rhetorical one... you don't use triple vs enf do you? Triples are the only thing that makes me want to hack ur acc like the fixer i am. I'm fine with being killed by doubles. Because that requires a NT to press more than [1]izgimmer's ultimatum followed by [2]triple.

[Pafpuf]

Personally I only used triples on low hp targets that were already debuffed by CB and when they were below 50% hp because I wanted to make sure the 5.5s cooldown was worth it.

5.5 seconds feels like forever when you can't do anything else in the meanwhile.

[Mountaingoat]

IU is more damage over time than triples on high hp targets. That and against an enforcer, breaking the root + being in LE nuke recharge is a death sentence. So no I don't use triples on enforcers.

[Pomidor]

Saw few hrs ago fixer being killed in 1 or 2 second by NT (both lvl 220). Looked funny, how he was defenceless. Not funny at all when I think about my fixer...

I like NT are good at PVP. They got hard times for ages, yet, some of proffesion could be just more vulnarable vs them...

[Pafpuf]

Eh 1 or 2 seconds, sure.

This is why we can't have nice things

[ephedrae]

Eh 1 or 2 seconds, sure.

Well,it's practically 3 seconds, theoretically 4.

[Mastablasta]

Just a question, no rhetorical one... you don't use triple vs enf do you? Triples are the only thing that makes me want to hack ur acc like the fixer i am. I'm fine with being killed by doubles. Because that requires a NT to press more than [1]izgimmer's ultimatum followed by [2]triple.

Noone uses triples vs. full hp targets, I wouldn't even use them on 70% hp targets, because one low hit or one random absorb or lucky counter or one stim or heal from a healer who just got in range, whatever, can make that triple a lost bet and send you straight to reclaim. Because, unlike NT vs. fixer, then NTs can die in less than those 2 seconds claimed by Pomidor if they are in nano recharge.

[Pomidor]

Noone uses triples vs. full hp targets, I wouldn't even use them on 70% hp targets, because one low hit or one random absorb or lucky counter or one stim or heal from a healer who just got in range, whatever, can make that triple a lost bet and send you straight to reclaim. Because, unlike NT vs. fixer, then NTs can die in less than those 2 seconds claimed by Pomidor if they are in nano recharge.

When i did duel with NT. I was alphaed. Duel lasted less then 10 seconds. I lost 3.3k HP, and NT lost 0.

When I was speaking about 220 NT vs 220 Fix I saw. I dont know the execution times ect. but I just saw *PUF*, and Fix was dead.

Of course, I can roll/lvl NT to 125 or 165 or 220, whatever... I liek the proffesion. Like I staded before, good that NTs got some love, but haveing NT lvl 76 with evades as high as Fixer lvl 110 and more DMG then fixer aint fair. Fixer should be evade proff, and I dont see it that way. Ok, Nts can kill em, I dont mind, but atleast give fixer some defance back :/

NR?Anyone?

Evades? WTB em back

[Mastablasta]

How does an NT lvl 76 get more evades than a lvl 110 fixer? I had no idea this was possible.

[Pomidor]

How does an NT lvl 76 get more evades than a lvl 110 fixer? I had no idea this was possible.

My lvl 110 fixer, with SWS, on Selbuffs (ql 150-160 CSS), ql 200 imps ect. (perks stuff, everything for evades), has 998/800/1015 evasion skills. Nt Lvl 76 has 940/620/920 evasion skills.

My lvl 74 trader has: 965/320/890 selbuffed evades
My MP 74 has: 866/426/890.

So, looking at stats, NTs got better for stat/lvl

Dodge/Duck/Evcc.

So, yes, Fixer sux on evades. On NR fails twice.