Lowbie trader ideas

[Dollcet]

Just a few Ideas :

- Maybe it would be possible to give Drains 2 separate NR checks so they use a different NR check vs a Player than vs Mobs ? Wouldnt hurt PvM Traders at all and leave much space to adjustments in the Future if the initail NR setting proves to be too high or too low .

- Update some Pieces from SoM or ToTW with some drain-resist , or maybe add some new drop ( thinking about some Bracer or Utility Item since there is not too much to choose from in the low-level Segment anyway .

- Scale debuffed Skills with Level of the Target ? ( Would be hard to balance that one , least favourable i think )

[Hacre]

People complaining about TL2 Traders with JAMEs on do realise that any Enforcer that spent more than five minutes on their twink VICIOUSLY ODs that JAME Trader, right? Even when the JAME is at 100% via drains, AR Mastery and Riot Control...

Tested with 41 Trader vs 36 Enfo.

The only good thing about the JAME is it has a burst that will probably cap and a fling that might cap when against a player. In which case weapons like the Arbalest and the Oneida are a bigger problem.

[schloops]

CC tool mechanics will probably be adjusted in the future, so probably not necessary

The problem here isn't linked to how cc works in ao, so the chances of a change there solving the issue here is pretty dim ^^.
One class pwning all others for 3-4 consecutive tls for years is kinda wrong... especially if on one button they can transform a group of enemies into 1 vs 1 fights.

Double flow of time reqs and give a chance to the other professions to at least stand a chance together. It's fair, it's needed and it's cheap to develop.

Elaborate a bit? Again, I really don't want to collapse or nerf a core functionality of Traders by cutting off access to high drains in PVM encounters.

Mmmm my first ideas here, after some thinking revealed themselves as kinda dumb... currently @ work so will have to wait before can think about this again.
But yah, currently failing.
Maybe divide drains effects by 2 in pvp? Dunno... back to work .

[Livesangry]

People complaining about TL2 Traders with JAMEs on do realise that any Enforcer that spent more than five minutes on their twink VICIOUSLY ODs that JAME Trader, right? Even when the JAME is at 100% via drains, AR Mastery and Riot Control...

Tested with 41 Trader vs 36 Enfo.

The only good thing about the JAME is it has a burst that will probably cap and a fling that might cap when against a player. In which case weapons like the Arbalest and the Oneida are a bigger problem.

this makes no sense imo.

we ain't looking at who can push out the highest dmg in an timeframe (even though i think an lvl 41 Jame trader WITH AAD drain running on target dashes out more dmg) it's the OPness of the low lvl traders in general. there main power lays in the ability to totally shutdown an target with 1 or 2 drains, which can't be resisted in an normal way.

despite that, i have seen Docs/traders/fixers/keepers/soldier killing some of the best enfs out there, yes enfs are OP but far from unbeatable like traders are.

[Mazzarin]

I think the main problem is that drains just last way too long and are unremovable in combat. Totally disabling somebody for over 3 minutes with the press of 1 button is just too much. Maybe reduce them to 30-60 secs, and maybe add some sort of Battle Prepared Virus Scanner to the regular shops so you can remove drains and UBT in combat.

EDIT: If you level lock drains or decrease their mods now, you'll also need to strip all current traders of their equipment, since they've used top drains to get stuff on and it wouldn't be fair to new trader twinks, so I doubt that's a very good idea...

[Originality]

Enforcers never were overpowered, other profs just need more thought put into them than "I max hp AR and damage", you need to think about how you can get them rooted or stay alive long enough to get past their defences. Foremans tank seems a bit unfair in the time its used in pvp, no other prof has an equivelant to that either.

But this is about traders so back to the point. Reducing duration on drains could help.. but it just means they have 1/2 more nanos to cast every 30-60 secs, if youre drained, casting again is not hard due to their insane nano skills and how NR checks.. They need to have their nano skills lowered or defence % on drains upped aswell as lowered duration imo.

[viktory22]

Well coming back to this post after a bit of time to read and i see that there is no point in continuing this as with all balance discussions anyone who has a toon that has an aspect a bit too powerful feels the need to argue against (trader proffessional).

Everyone says it takes 2 good toons and a trader is down - personally on my traders I have not met anyone who counters my nanites twice in a row at tl2 which means from 40m they aint hitting me.

tl3 on the other hand with NR 90 twinks a trader gets destroyed but hey the agent sacrfices a lot. so its not over looked

shoulda probally said this post was for tl2 and below mainly

I think we all learned a lesson from reading this that even people "elected" to hold a proffession and understand the game more deep down only care that their toon is better.

Finnally, I think FC needs to look into this as obviously part of the problem is that some of the players and higher people in the food chain are not trying to balance anything. Evident by the test server when people know about bugs dont report them and then abuse them on the real servers. (another strong supporter that fixes need to be put into the test server or hold standards to people who use it)(never used test server and probally will never if anyone tries to accuse me )

[Darkirbiska1]

this makes no sense imo.

we ain't looking at who can push out the highest dmg in an timeframe (even though i think an lvl 41 Jame trader WITH AAD drain running on target dashes out more dmg) it's the OPness of the low lvl traders in general. there main power lays in the ability to totally shutdown an target with 1 or 2 drains, which can't be resisted in an normal way.

despite that, i have seen Docs/traders/fixers/keepers/soldier killing some of the best enfs out there, yes enfs are OP but far from unbeatable like traders are.

It is old a few months, but it is still good post for laugh.

[Pomidor]

Trader was supposed to be support class. When you are in BS, and there is a trader 9speaking of TL2), things are geting far complicated. I saw many fights where 1 good trader make 5-6 ppl useles: 1) ultra fast drain 2 enforcers 2) Piramid marketing and ran away. Those ppl stood in 1 place, useing FM. While they tried to get free from root, trader drained everyone, sat to recharge nano and then, casting HT killed one by one. Thing is, this scenerio happens most of times.

Drains can be countered, even few times - but what for? Eventually, they will land, so u are either rooted or drained or both.

Adding higher recharge time will force trader to more cerfully useing tools, and let target more chances. There is also need to increase NanoCosts to each drain. Afaik - both solutions are the only way for not nerfing traders, but allow others to chance. This should not affect 1vs1, but would do big difference in mass pvp like BS.

Most times, when I am on BS, and there is a trader on 1 side, its sided battle and ppl just leave - the scenerio described above is not FUN to anyone, who just stays in one place and is awaiting inventible death (repeatable)

Also, you need to remember that if Trader drains somone and will get killed, he still keeps his drains so next time he just lands then much easier. This way, even NR twinked cahracters are useless - cause, if u manage to kill trader, 1,2,3 times, he will drain u, for sure - then he will drain u again, but at first time. So either u need to wait 3 minutes in hide, so he cant drain you (he probably drain in that time 5 others) or just get used to see decon room.

From my point of view, NR setuped Enf, i got 50/50 chances to win with trader, but when he drained others and is fully ready, my chances drop to 0.

[Scottik]

It is old a few months, but it is still good post for laugh.

Not sure why. It kinda make sense to me.

[Obtena]

I can never believe how people overlook the fact that a significant element of trader OP'edness is the NCU they can get. Unfortunately, nothing can be done about this for currently built twinks.

Another reasonable but less significant change would be to make drains overwrite team and umbral wrangler. Changing that would have little effect on PVM, but significantly adjust the capability of a trader to twink certain weapons in.

[Vgman01]

The main thing that makes traders op is the ob's and the traders ability to kite you while draining you. Hack n Quack makes it so that any dmg you do to the trader is instantly healed then you have to try to alpha him betwean ticks and that just dosent happen when you are drained. Add to this that even traders who use mele weps will kite you untill you are nice and drained and you have virtualy an unbeatable prof. Now their are a couple diffrent ways we can go about nerfing them.

1) The most common suggestion is to simply lvl lock drians. This would be the easiest and most efficiant way of going about nerfing them.

2) Drains based on target: There have been a couple diffrent suggestions that fall under this. Like making it drain a % of the targets skill rather then a flat amount. The idea I like most is to make low end drains drain an amount = to the targets lvl. So at 25 with 2 drains on you, you will lose 50 pts of skill. This is still a threataning amount but dosent totaly shut down the players ability to fight back.

3) More NR: The main problem with this idea is, clearly, that it would hurt non traders, possibly much more then traders themselves. If an nt twink or a crat twink cant nuke you then theres almost no point in them fighting back.

There are a few more but I really dont feal like typing them all out and the reasons why they are good/bad ideas.

[Gatester]

It is old a few months, but it is still good post for laugh.

Can my level 30 agent kill a 49 enforcer in BS? Yes.

Can my level 30 agent kill a 49 trader with JAME? Not without Conc.

Traders have psuedo-evades, great healing, psuedo-damage-mitigation, and great damage at low levels. They lack significant max health. Their only weakness is irrelevant if you cannot in fact alpha the level of max health they can obtain.

Good traders are on an entirely different level of ability compared to any profession except agent. If you continually lose on your trader, you fail, roll a soldier or enforcer.

[Darkirbiska1]

BS and tip roll soldier?
Lilpirata 30/3 Agent TL2 Tactician, you are kidding, with this setup?http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=139218

[Obtena]

I don't see why his claims aren't believeable. Theoretically, if you can keep an enfo rooted, they can't touch an agent, and that's very possible considering the amount of nano an enfo has to spam rage compared to nano an agent has for rooting. As for being able to kill an enfo, also quite believeable, considering how easily AS lands, the range advantage you would get from a perma rooted enf, along with reg hits that no enfo that level can evade. Enfos don't have access to their good defenses that level. HP, some reasonable NR and a good alpha isn't the whole package.

On the other hand, those roots, range and AS don't give you an upperhand against a trader and other factors have to come in to give you an even fight. In fact, very little does give you the upperhand on a trader and it's hard to fight a trader on his terms. Agent with AS, Sharp Objects and Conc starting the fight from conceal would be one such way. Unfortunately that's a once-every-15-minutes trick pony.

[Darkirbiska1]

You speak about BS, right? This thread has posts about pvp from level 1 to tl3 and I lol'ed post about pvp around level 30-50. You guys have never heard about NR and Zap nano and OBs, right?

[Senggum]

BS and tip roll soldier?
Lilpirata 30/3 Agent TL2 Tactician, you are kidding, with this setup?http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=139218

its actually a good setup for self fights and BS... something you have no knowledge of as it rarely runs on RK1 and even with the crap population on RK2 i bet its still runs 10x more often

You speak about BS, right? This thread has posts about pvp from level 1 to tl3 and I lol'ed post about pvp around level 30-50. You guys have never heard about NR and Zap nano and OBs, right?

NR perk and zap nano are not enough at TL2 to beat a trader... enfo could get close to 1100 NR at lvl30 with OBs that might be enough 9 times out of 10 but, in order to get that NR he has to give up HP... so a JAME trader with gumboils would more than likely reck him without drains.

When it come to OBed fighting traders atm have 0 disadvantages at TL2 and when they are twinked well should not lose a fight to anything other than a trader of equal skill/gear or a max level range enfo.

[Obtena]

You speak about BS, right? This thread has posts about pvp from level 1 to tl3 and I lol'ed post about pvp around level 30-50. You guys have never heard about NR and Zap nano and OBs, right?

What's wrong with that? There is more real PVP happening in BS at that level than there is at towers. So what you are saying is that his setup is a joke vs. NR perked enfos as opposed to just plain old regular ones in BS? That could be true but they have to existed on BS first.

[Gatester]

BS and tip roll soldier?
Lilpirata 30/3 Agent TL2 Tactician, you are kidding, with this setup?http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=139218

Yes, I also use FP's (hence the gear choices). I would be careful trying to ridicule my setups.

You speak about BS, right? This thread has posts about pvp from level 1 to tl3 and I lol'ed post about pvp around level 30-50. You guys have never heard about NR and Zap nano and OBs, right?

Last 30 NR1 tiig enfo I dueled, I alphad, and never took damage in FP enfo. Usually I use FP soldier against enforcers but a gimp that cannot cast isn't even good for tower wars. Just because NR is popular does not mean it is the best choice, generally, it is the choice for noobs that make up for skill with OSB's and q/afk till I outdamage the other person's OSB's.

The fact is, which you are apparently unaware of, is that Nano Resist is inneffective at tl2 because you cannot go full def to resist traders with far too much nanoskills. Once you cannot resist their drains, a player with an OE weapon and no nanos to cast cannot OD their healing ability.


Now, traders are not too OP self buffed at low levels. The problem is gear they should not have that makes them too strong, aka a ****ing JAME at 26. It is a tl4 weapon.

[NotDavidBowi]

If Funcom cares so much about balance then this issue should be high priority. Tl2 pvp is one of the most unbalanced things Anarchy Online has to offer. How awesome would it be to see original setups and different professions pvping @ tl2? I would love to work out an original pvp twink at tl2, but right now the trader dominance makes every other profession/setup useless.