Low Level Trader(s) Drains

[Hacre]

Drains will still land on a low level NR enf, not as much obviously, but its often enough to make you question NRs effectiveness. And nanopool is almost never an issue either. Traders can still drain up to the +260 CL buff, and still put on outrageous amounts of NCU-- even at the lower levels. So what's hunting down just another couple buffs? -cost and HE anyone?

That's with PNH and -cost. Go and look at the nano costs on the top RK drains and Shutdown Skills as well as on the roots that Traders can drain into.

Just cos you have a 90ish trader!

IMO they should come in at somepoint TL4 (130?)

It's not just because of that at all, hell I haven't done anything with that Trader in aaaages, it still needs some work.

You're sort of biased, because your Agent setup doesn't lend itself to debuffers as well as the cookie cutter NR perked Agent setup does. It does however, give you better options in other areas. This is what we call a trade off.

I'm not arguing that high TL3->TL4+ Traders are suddenly nerfest and therefore they -need- nanites, what I am saying is, once you reach those levels, nanites do not necessarily make a fight auto one way like high drains can at TL1/2.

[AGPEcko]

That's with PNH and -cost. Go and look at the nano costs on the top RK drains and Shutdown Skills as well as on the roots that Traders can drain into.

I'm well aware of the cost' related with casting the higher drains at lower levels, but it's simply not a problem. I have/had experience with many different level traders, 15, 30, 74. And it's always the same. They cost a lot of nano, sure, but it's so easy to make it up with just a pnh.

Not to mention, more recently, the nightmare battledrod which has a nano-leech to add to the already easy-to-overcome nano pool problem...

[Reids]

You're sort of biased, because your Agent setup doesn't lend itself to debuffers as well as the cookie cutter NR perked Agent setup does. It does however, give you better options in other areas. This is what we call a trade off.

That's true he doesn't, but i've always said traders are too OPed at TL3/4 (even when I had a TL4 trader )

I'm not arguing that high TL3->TL4+ Traders are suddenly nerfest and therefore they -need- nanites, what I am saying is, once you reach those levels, nanites do not necessarily make a fight auto one way like high drains can at TL1/2.

2 nanites = -800 AR

That's game over, no matter what prof you are.

[Hacre]

2 nanites = -800 AR

That's game over, no matter what prof you are.

Reids, Reids Reids. No it isn't and I know you know it isn't. That doesn't stop AS from landing and it doesn't stop SA from landing.

Let's see, what are the most active professions at TL4 PvP, in order?

Enforcers
Traders
Agents
NTs
Keepers, who are solely NR perked.

Well golly gee Dorothy, Enforcers and Agents have SA and AS respectively! As well as high NR at that TL! Which makes landing Divest annoying and Plunder a real bitch! Not to mention owie hurty regular hits and kizzermoles! Keepers are NR perked and still have enough AR to hurt a Trader!

As for NTs, try dueling December's NT with your TL4 Trader and have some fun against his sick nano resist while he nukes you to death before you can even get Divest landed. Yeah, have some real fun with that.

[2423423]

Reids, Reids Reids. No it isn't and I know you know it isn't. That doesn't stop AS from landing and it doesn't stop SA from landing.

Let's see, what are the most active professions at TL4 PvP, in order?

Enforcers
Traders
Agents
NTs
Keepers, who are solely NR perked.

Well golly gee Dorothy, Enforcers and Agents have SA and AS respectively! As well as high NR at that TL! Which makes landing Divest annoying and Plunder a real bitch! Not to mention owie hurty regular hits and kizzermoles! Keepers are NR perked and still have enough AR to hurt a Trader!

As for NTs, try dueling December's NT with your TL4 Trader and have some fun against his sick nano resist while he nukes you to death before you can even get Divest landed. Yeah, have some real fun with that.

You can say what you want. I've played tl4 enf for years and gone through literally hundreds of tower battles. Tl4 enf is considered to be op'd and I can tell you that one drain is enough to make it game over unless the trader is under 10% already.
For other classes than enf and agent it's just a joke. And now rage is getting nerfed.
Drains should be adjusted accordingly.

[Hacre]

You can say what you want. I've played tl4 enf for years and gone through literally hundreds of tower battles. Tl4 enf is considered to be op'd and I can tell you that one drain is enough to make it game over unless the trader is under 10% already.
For other classes than enf and agent it's just a joke. And now rage is getting nerfed.
Drains should be adjusted accordingly.

One drain really isn't enough against a good Enforcer, having said that I'm talking from the perspective of level 94 against ~100-110ish Enfos. Divest and the -aao drain at least are needed and they're damn hard to land against an Enfo that's got rage up.

However, Pat, you hate Traders at all TLs and hate NTs at TL7, you want to see them nerfstomped into the ground. We get it, you've made your point, you don't need to invade every possible thread and downplay how good your toons are in the hope of accomplishing said nerfs.

[Reids]

Reids, Reids Reids. No it isn't and I know you know it isn't. That doesn't stop AS from landing and it doesn't stop SA from landing.

Let's see, what are the most active professions at TL4 PvP, in order?

Enforcers
Traders
Agents
NTs
Keepers, who are solely NR perked.

Well golly gee Dorothy, Enforcers and Agents have SA and AS respectively! As well as high NR at that TL! Which makes landing Divest annoying and Plunder a real bitch! Not to mention owie hurty regular hits and kizzermoles! Keepers are NR perked and still have enough AR to hurt a Trader!

As for NTs, try dueling December's NT with your TL4 Trader and have some fun against his sick nano resist while he nukes you to death before you can even get Divest landed. Yeah, have some real fun with that.

If you're any good, no enforcer should be able to get off 2 SAs on you at all. Drains also have an effect on AS iirc.

[Hacre]

If you're any good, no enforcer should be able to get off 2 SAs on you at all. Drains also have an effect on AS iirc.

Drains don't effect the skill. They might have an effect on the damage from the AS if OE rules or MBS rules come into play, but that's it.

It's not like Traders run around with assloads of HP.

[Reids]

Drains don't effect the skill. They might have an effect on the damage from the AS if OE rules or MBS rules come into play, but that's it.

It's not like Traders run around with assloads of HP.

True but the amount you're doing with AS is easily outhealed when you're hitting for 200-300 tops every 11 seconds. As for normal hits, forget it.

[Darkirbiska1]

True but the amount you're doing with AS is easily outhealed when you're hitting for 200-300 tops every 11 seconds. As for normal hits, forget it.

Like tl3-4 MPs with top heal pet+hots

[-Klod-]

Like tl3-4 MPs with top heal pet+hots

What? It's so hard to disable pets?

[2423423]

One drain really isn't enough against a good Enforcer, having said that I'm talking from the perspective of level 94 against ~100-110ish Enfos. Divest and the -aao drain at least are needed and they're damn hard to land against an Enfo that's got rage up..

Yes comparing apples to oranges is a valid way to argue when you know you're wrong.

However, Pat, you hate Traders at all TLs and hate NTs at TL7, you want to see them nerfstomped into the ground. We get it, you've made your point, you don't need to invade every possible thread and downplay how good your toons are in the hope of accomplishing said nerfs.

I could say the same thing about you. But I won't because I don't need or want to resort to personal attacks like you apparently do.

I agree with the ppl who think that drains need to be level locked because my experience which consists of years of lowbie pvp tells me that having a single nano disable a toon into nothingness (speaking about 12 classes here) is just too much.

If you don't agree with that, fine, argue why it's reasonable, but don't resort to personal attacks. Especially not since you're well known to post everywhere yourself.

[Hacre]

Yes comparing apples to oranges is a valid way to argue when you know you're wrong.

I don't think you know what that means.

If you don't agree with that, fine, argue why it's reasonable, but don't resort to personal attacks. Especially not since you're well known to post everywhere yourself.

I made no personal attack. Point out a single insult.

As for posting everywhere myself, yeah I do, but my point was, every other post of mine is not demanding a nerf for some profession I don't like.

I'd also post a lot less if you and others like you stopped making false claims about a profession's power in the hopes of achieving such nerfs, too.

[Reids]

I'd also post a lot less if you and others like you stopped making false claims about a profession's power in the hopes of achieving such nerfs, too.

But they ARE op'ed.

I said so when I played my TL2 trader and my TL4 trader. Even when I had them, I would of preferred to have them nerfed rather than keep them. It just really unbalances the scale of things. Look at TL2 pvp, it's 80% traders (even before the noob rod). Surely that tells you something is wrong? Think who attends clan TL3 NW on RK1. Mostly traders.

[2423423]

I don't think you know what that means.

In this case it meant comparing a tl3 trader to a tl4 enf.

I made no personal attack. Point out a single insult..

Then stick to arguing against what I say, not against me personally.

As for posting everywhere myself, yeah I do, but my point was, every other post of mine is not demanding a nerf for some profession I don't like..

No, yours are the opposite. and you just happen to play both NT and trader. Both of which are now finally getting "adjusted" by FC.

I'd also post a lot less if you and others like you stopped making false claims about a profession's power in the hopes of achieving such nerfs, too.

Are you saying your opinion is less subjective than mine somehow?
This thread is about lowbie traders. Everyone knows they are overpowered to the moon and back, for many reasons.
The lower tl's being more or less exclusively populated by traders being foolprof proof of it.
Or at least it should be to ppl who arent biased.

[kabulla]

this is my opinion and what I have stated in other threads on this subject

trader don't want drains nerfed cause the needs the for pvm everyone else wants them nerfed cause of pvp

my idea would be ot level lock divest and plunder to 50+ and nanites to 100+ or 150+ I personally like 150+ better...... ransack and deprive are more then enough drain skills for a TL2 trader and regular divest and plunder were still nerfage before nanites exsisted so there is no reason why they could not be locked in this manner other then the cries of nerf.

[Darkirbiska1]

But they ARE op'ed.

I said so when I played my TL2 trader and my TL4 trader. Even when I had them, I would of preferred to have them nerfed rather than keep them. It just really unbalances the scale of things. Look at TL2 pvp, it's 80% traders (even before the noob rod). Surely that tells you something is wrong? Think who attends clan TL3 NW on RK1. Mostly traders.

Everyone who does pvp at low lvl knows that only trader can be very effective and it is since AO came out , so 80% of people with traders made them for pvp and not for pvm.
Reason is simple: you can keep high ql of weap on 100% and you can get enough ncu for sh..loads of buffs, draining your opponent has different reasons between <30 and 60+.
Imo <30 drains are mostly for keeping your weap on 100% while at 60+ drains works mostly for lowering AR of your opponent, because hots like HaQ cant outheal dmg from another proffesions and traders relay on their evades+drains more than <30.
If you want to do tl2 NW you must be trader until lvl30 where you can perk NR1 and it is more balanced fight then if you roll NR enf or agent,soldier.
At low lvls I speak about lvl 20-30 highest drains with mochams are first plunder and divest. Difference between second plunder and divest is too much even for predrained trader with mochams. Every twink can use them, because they are twinks while normal trader can land only normal ransack and deprive.
At higher lvl if you have expansions you can equip higher implants( or even symbiants), ql 150 arithemtic,perks, le research,le hud and be able cast nanites more easily than than second plunder on level bewlo <30, you dont have these perks and items at low level.
Top plunder and divest can drain more than enough at tl5 and nanites should be 150+ and definitely not below 150.
But I dont know what traders say, their toolset is being nerfed a lot and most traders use AS gun and maxed nanoskills, so they will feel changes very hard, specially tl3+ where are only AS traders with nanites.

[Krattonomic]

to be quite honest for having played traders 90% of the time ive been with AO... I really like the way it is... not once have I played my trader in pvp but in pvm.... messing witht he drains and the plunders would ultimatly hurt the trader.... and to what advantage? ofcourse the drains will be hurt... but of them 90% of traders that are using this to their advantage they will just simply change to the next profession that is able to dominate lower levels... and then you will just be right back here... suggesting another "fix"

[kabulla]

to be quite honest for having played traders 90% of the time ive been with AO... I really like the way it is... not once have I played my trader in pvp but in pvm.... messing witht he drains and the plunders would ultimatly hurt the trader.... and to what advantage? ofcourse the drains will be hurt... but of them 90% of traders that are using this to their advantage they will just simply change to the next profession that is able to dominate lower levels... and then you will just be right back here... suggesting another "fix"

not likely seeing as no other profession in the game can criple their opponents to the extent that traders at TL2.

seriously though how would this hurt pvm traders is you went with what I am suggesting traders would be able to drain 301 AR (101 of that is AAO) from their opponent at TL2 and in return would gain 151 skills to me that seems more then enough for pvm and pvp purposes... at the higher end of the TL2 perspective where you have more IP to spend you should need to drain as much skills as you can self enough evades and the dmg reduction caused by OE weapons is effective enough when combined...... in pvm same situation though far less thinking involved.

[Kuegen]

Level locking drains will ruin the trader profession. I feel that many of the people speaking against the trader profession (wanting a nerf) simply have not played one. Its not simply push 2 buttons for god mode. The unique thing about traders is their ability to ladder their drains to use higher QL nanos and weapons, to empower themselves and weaken their opponent (which frankly i think isnt enough!) Its more likely how powerful OSBs are at low levels that makes traders seem like gods (a selfed trader is a slight threat to other professions).

Would also like to comment that a pre-drained trader (at lower levels where you can ladder) should be able to beat anyone, instant access to top nanos and weapons not in OE which would otherwise require 3 prerequisite drains (15 sec~) Must be annoying in those towers wars or BS when they can just drain some gimp and then use their top drains on your twink. Oh well, no nerf needed there.

Oh, and if your seriously have NR twinked, and you think traders are landing drains all the time on you.... prolly selective memory