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Thread: Balancing pvp how about pvm?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by notcrattey View Post
    5 shades and a good crat would wreck it.
    Shades suck in inf mishes because of too squishy mobs...

    Agent > shade in inf mish even!

  2. #22
    the main problem as it was said before ( sry too tried to make a bunch of quotes ) i think is, that we are killing 5 6 year old mobs, so inevtably they have become easier and easier and time progressed. However i dont think the solution is to nerf crats so every would suffer ( although combining all debuff into 1 and give it a 110% nr check would be pretty acceptable to me ) rather than beefing up the encounters. Give them some nasty procs, specials or something so that "teams" would not be crat+"some random lucky guy".

    I started writing how unfair it is to give crats soo much credit, but I just cant deny it. Took (me at least) less than 2 month to lvl to 220 and never had problems finding teams ( a quick though about this, the fact that most ppl just stand around waiting for invites and than whining rather than putting one together on thier own is just funny, so before your saying "i have a poor pvm prof bacause ppl dont invite me put in some effort on ur own ) so i yes, i have to agree crat are easy-mode in pwm if you put some effort in it, but to be actually good in pwm you still have to learn to play ur prof ( when hunting 250 dynas, not pressing some xp perks every few min ).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnificus View Post
    What AO really needs is a SL size new expansion.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    As far as the hardest professions to take down in mass pvp? Martial Artists and Adventurers.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMekon View Post
    abnormal? explain how that is, cuz most of us can statistically show, how soldiers are one of the poorest pvp professions in terms of both offense and defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I'm curious. Do you Martial Artists actually plan to have a thread about professionals that doesn't end in a flamewar about equipment setups? I think you're about 0/3 now.

  4. #24
    ^^ WOW, that's the last thing AO needs ... more new stuff heaped upon more old stuff that needs fixing?
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnificus View Post
    What AO really needs is a SL size new expansion.
    I couldn't disagree more. A new, SL sized expansion would make SL as deserted as RK, and RK even more of a wasteland than it currently is. What is required is an adjustment to the current encounters to make them challenging again. And not just the default answer of more HP. Tanking longer to kill something does not mean that it is harder to kill. Beyond the re-balancing, new starter experience, and engine upgrades that they need to finish, there should be more instances like Dark Ruins in the game. Only this time:

    1) Tone down the XP rewards so you don't have to put an 18 hour lockout on it.
    2) Continue the single instance/team instance process where you have to finish it yourself once before you can start doing the team version.
    3) Give the end boss lewt/buffs that will make people want to keep coming back to it.

    The fact that so many people complained about how hard the solo verision of Dark Ruins was, means that it was exactly the kind of instance we need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    I have played my toon 280 days. You have played ur toon 36 days. My toon is better. Get over it.

  6. #26
    My first and main toon was MP.
    In retrospect I should be happy I made this as first toon because after having played other profs I'm pretty sure that if I had something else as main I would have never gone through the 10 hour long lft to do one mission and have everyone leave because any other prof was favoured over MP.
    Over the years this has only gotten worse even.
    The reason I wouldn't bother rolling a MP anymore is because I know after the huge struggle to get in teams to just level, I'd have even less chance getting in raids so I'd have to raid with my alts to supply my mp with stuff (like I aleady do) so eventually I can end up with a top equipped MP that still can't compare to other profs in pvm or pvp.

    Atleast I can spawn crystals and there are ( encounters in the game where NSD is useful, though not needed. Oh and of course two encounters where the healpet can heal a NPC.
    Nesjamag 220/30/70 Shade
    Nesjamah 220/23/69 MP
    Nesjahero 150/16/42 Keeper
    Nesjasol 220/26/58 Soldier
    Nesjawild 150/19/35 Advy

    The Asylum

  7. #27
    It's kinda bad when, barring the Collector, you need more strategy killing bosses in Final Fantasy XIII than in AO. AO you just spray bullets and swing pointy sticks till they die.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mostadio View Post
    i agree. With things being done in a single team, if you're not a doc/crat/sold/enf, you'll need to be a pretty badass dd to get one of the two remaining slots. Give nts and traders boss mezzes, let them shine. Or just let things be mezzable. Give keepers or solds aoe taunts. Allow advies to heal better at the cost of something else, etc. Nothing like having a team waiting on a single profession to kick start some fun, only to wait for over an hour because there aren't any docs around that want to raid with you.
    yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by saetos View Post
    it's kinda bad when, barring the collector, you need more strategy killing bosses in final fantasy xiii than in ao. Ao you just spray bullets and swing pointy sticks till they die.
    also yesssssssssssssssss

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mostadio View Post
    I agree. With things being done in a single team, if you're not a doc/crat/sold/enf, you'll need to be a pretty badass DD to get one of the two remaining slots. Give NTs and traders boss mezzes, let them shine.
    No way - PVM is too easy, so let's make it even easier?!

    Give keepers or solds AOE taunts.
    Keepers are gaining a 10k AOE taunt in the perk rebalance as an addition to their Purify perk special.

    Allow advies to heal better at the cost of something else, etc.
    Let's take this a step further - require people to sacrifice something to gain an optimized setup. In almost every class, perhaps barring Shades (since spirits don't buff everything) and Atrox Enforcers with their Psychic issues, implants and armor buff everything that they need. There's no true sacrifice, because we have a hell of a lot of equipment slots. On top of this, team buffs negate most arbitrary sacrifices that might result from superbly polarized equipment setups. On the same token, as (for example) Doctors do not need to fill a DD role, they will always build a set-up focused on nanoinit and +heal% for both raiding and soloing.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    No way - PVM is too easy, so let's make it even easier?!
    Yeah this is true, crats should be the undisputed god of pvm and no one should ever be able to replace them (or even come close) okies.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Yeah this is true, crats should be the undisputed god of pvm and no one should ever be able to replace them (or even come close) okies.
    No, crats need to be nerfed hard as well.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Yeah this is true, crats should be the undisputed god of pvm and no one should ever be able to replace them (or even come close) okies.
    Did you seriously think I implied this? I want boss calms gone, not given to more classes.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinnipeng View Post
    Shades suck in inf mishes because of too squishy mobs...

    Agent > shade in inf mish even!
    There's no reason for perk blackholing nowadays.. :s

  15. #35
    Make players' characters into mobs and let players control the mobs. Problem solved.

    Dibs on Artillery Commander.

  16. #36
    I would personally love to see more dynamic strategy involved in PVM, this would certainly make things interesting enough. If you could approach a mob with desired loot drops knowing that you've encountered this particular npc many times before, but that he is likely to pull something new and challenging into this encounter that you haven't seen before and will require you to think on your feet it will never become boring. Currently, you can perfect one strategy for each npc which is 80% or more gaurenteed to result in a kill and makes the encounter boring after the nth run. A differing challenge everytime which requires on the fly strategic use of the toolsets in your team would lend a lot more life to each encounter.

    Such a possibility with each mob may also encourage people to bring the multitude of different profs into their teams, rather than the tired old Doc, Sold, Crat etc. If each prof had benefits for dealing with each possibly different encounter then people would be more inclined to be less picky with their team invites.

    I want to be required to use my brain in every encounter, not learn once then rinse and repeat ad infinitum. I'm sure I'm not alone here.
    Last edited by Russless; Jul 3rd, 2010 at 22:42:39.
    Rimor:
    Russless - 220 Opifex Agent
    Moriarty - 220 Solitus Crat
    Urassis - 170 Nano-mage NT
    Eccles - 219 Opifex fixer
    Subwaysplat - 25 Atrox Enforcer
    Templetastic - 60 Atrox Enforcer
    Shishkabob - Opifex Shade
    Goonagal - Atrox Keeper

    Proud Member of The Empire

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Righteous View Post
    Make players' characters into mobs and let players control the mobs. Problem solved.
    Ohoh.
    Angevil, proud 220 MA from Rimor.
    Flourishing anew. About twelve GUI/Perk/Armor setups done so far, hopefully that one will outlast the criticism of my perfectionism!

    Ars Magna. Histories became artifacts, images of poor effect, memories filled with acts and neglect
    As a vulture of cultures I indeed feed my seeds with much greed, soaked in pleasure I succeed

  18. #38
    Another thing about raids nowadays is, barring Sister Botanicus (who doesn't hit all that hard in the first place) and the flaky APF general aggro at the end of their run, the support - Doctors especially - are never under any threat. With Mercenaries for example, Ian Warr would consistently toss around AOE attacks, and if aggro went crazy, the Doc would die and the rest of the raid would collapse. As it is now though, with Pistols, Doctors are in no danger at all from taking damage, and can focus all their attention on healing 70k+ HP Enforcers with 25%+ reflects fighting a mob that's debuffed by 2500+ initiatives.

    Speaking of initiative debuffs, let's calc how far the playerbase today can debuff inits, just to show how insane this has gotten.

    Doctor:
    1 452 [ Uncontrollable Body Tremors ] * unbreakable nano *
    2 569 [ Anatomic Blight ] * breakable LE proc *
    0 906 [ Muscular Malaise ] * unbreakable LE proc *
    Bureaucrat:
    0 400 [ Nanite Advanced Red Tape ] * unbreakable nano *
    0 250 [ Normalised Improved Red Tape ] * unbreakable nano *
    0 250 [ Improved Red Tape ] * unbreakable nano *
    Shade:
    0 850 [ Depravation of Celerity ] * unbreakable SL proc *
    Meta-Physicist:
    0 261 [ Wrath Abatement ] * unbreakable nano *
    =====
    6 934 initiatives

    But that's not all:

    Base:
    6 934
    Doctor / Bureaucrat / Meta-Physicist / Nano-Technician:
    0 800 * Dazzle with Lights, Starfall 10 *
    Martial Artist:
    1 000 * Red Dusk, Xuyun 10 *
    0 650 * Incapacitate, Spiritual Master 7, Bleeding Wounds not running (1300 with BW) *
    =====
    9 389 initiatives
    10 039 with BW + Incap
    12 239 with Empowered Divided Ego (though breakable on first hit) / 11 156 with Decrepitude instead of UBT


    Something's seriously wrong here.
    Last edited by Saetos; Jul 4th, 2010 at 19:31:44.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  19. #39
    You forgot the crat init debuff nuke and the zombie dog debuff proc! and probably other stuff ;p
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    You forgot the crat init debuff nuke and the zombie dog debuff proc! and probably other stuff ;p
    And also Malaise of Zeal, together with the nuke that is another -1600 unbreakable init debuffs from crat alone. When counting the getto calm init debuffs like decreptitude or the crat calms in pvp, it gets even worse.
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 bureaucrat*: Starting 12man, need Enfo, Doc, Keeper, reflects."
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 doctor*: Looking for crat/keep/enf for 12m pst "
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 soldier*: still need doc/enf for 12 man. pst
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] LF enfo , crat , doc and soldier's for ipande / pst [220 doctor]"

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