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Thread: A crazy idea Re: Perks

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos
    This would slaughter their DD potential in PVM though. Soldiers (with capped FA/Fling/Burst) would completely annihilate them in DD contests.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Such idea coming from a soldier. Shades. Soldiers. DD whores. Shades. Perks. Soldiers. "Rebalance" perks. Ulterior motives.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Azza View Post
    I guess the bottom line is: fewer buttons to push mindlessly, more choices to make thoughtfully. For both PvP and PvM.
    For PVP, maybe, but this will affect PVM very badly in several ways:

    1) For perk oriented professions (Shade, Agent, Keeper) many of their main abilities (huge damage, burst damage, heals respectively) will be castrated by this change. Unless you're willing to give Shades gigantic damage perks in Piercing Mastery and near-CH lifetaps in Totemic Rites, I can't see this working.

    2) All three pet professions and Soldiers will have absolutely no problem solidifying themselves as the top 4 DDers in game by a far-away margin. Martial Artists will have a slight chance due to their high crit chance and lack of reliance on perks, but everyone else will just crumble to death. You'll have a plateau, an outcropping with the MA, and then everyone will fall off and land in the canyon below.

    3) PVM will become even more mindless than it is now. I have a 208 Shade, and one of the reasons I love playing her is because I'm involved in the combat nearly every second, timing perks and using certain lines and chains whenever and whatever the need arises. Reducing it to one perk in 4-5 lines every 40 seconds will completely deaden the experience, and as a profession whose role, above all else, is continuously high damage, that removes about 80% of the effort from combat and makes it a "watch the shaded portions for 20 seconds" session.

    4) The effort required to make this change will not solve any feasible problem. Here's what you said the problem was:
    I think this would take away a lot of "piano perking" and replace it with some careful thought in choosing what actions to use and when. You know, strategy, rather than button mashing.
    Piano perking is indeed an issue in PVP, I'll grant you that. But it isn't a negative issue at all in PVM, and in fact contributes, as I've said, to the damage potential of quite a few classes; namely, Agents and Shades. The problem with PVM as it stands now is that literally every encounter in game can be solved by a team of:

    [1] Enforcer OR [1] Soldier
    [1] Bureaucrat
    [1] Doctor

    Everyone else is extraneous DD. Literally.

    A) Enforcers have a tremendous amount of HP, and max HP potential via Doc buffs and SL essences. Soldiers have 80%+ reflect nanos that have a lockout shorter than the duration of the nano, and when that nano dies, can still have 30-40% remaining to shave off damage.

    B) Bureaucrats... wheeeee. Let's see, you've got init debuffs (that stack with UBT, by the way), nukes (whose damage can be tripled for 8 seconds), two pets, the best calms... hell, even a calm that can PACIFY THE UNCALMABLE. Every limitation that FunCom has ever tried to throw our way can be eliminated by the powers of one profession. Need Sister Botanicus' towers to die? Doesn't matter if you're trapped or not, just yell at Carlo to beat them up for a couple seconds and you're right as rain. Boss hitting too fast? Throw some Malaises at it, oh and while you're at it, beef up your teammates' defense ratings by over 400 points just to add to that sweet little formula. Too many adds, or just don't feel like fighting those trash mobs that were added to give an Enforcer something to do his job? Ah, no worries; just toss a couple calms and you're fine. All in all, you can literally ignore any other consideration for DD or support tools. The Bureaucrat has grown into Anarchy Online's Toolbox - reach inside and pull out whatever tools you need, because the Toolbox has everything.

    C) ... well, except heals. And for heals, there's no one better than the Doctor! With a Doctor at the Bureaucrat's side, that boss is only going to hit once every presidential election, and in case the Soldier just doesn't have his reflects going, that's fine, because Doctors can now heal up to 140,001 points of damage every 20 seconds. The absolute best and most certifiably insane Enforcers have barely clipped past half of that! Oh, and remember how the original CH had an 8 second recharge? ICH only has a 3.5 second recharge! Sure it may cost a bundle of nanopool, but Doctors haven't had nanopool troubles since AI came out. Oh, and don't forget those dandy init debuff procs, because you know we just don't have enough of that around, do we!


    You honestly think that the big problem with the game is piano perking? There's so, so, SO much more wrong with this game. The game has given 4 professions demigod status, while leaving 10 to flounder and juggle tools that are extraneous, unnecessary, and ultimately just shiny trinkets that make the fight 1.5% easier.
    Last edited by Saetos; May 20th, 2010 at 08:16:41.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    This would slaughter their DD potential in PVM though. Soldiers (with capped FA/Fling/Burst) would completely annihilate them in DD contests.
    you're assuming there would be no other changes.

    shade changes could be along the lines of:

    - PM and TR and SP perk actions could be separated into two different sub-lines. PM into high and low def check damage perks, TR into heals and damage buffs, SP into nano/health DoT's and AAO/AAD drains

    - PM and TR perks could have their damage increased so that overall damage isn't changed given that half the line is now locked OR they could have a secondary perk damage applied if target is PVM

    - PM / TR / SP perk actions could appear very early on in the perk line, and then have increases in effectivesness with borth piercing skill and number of perks put into the line (or just number of perks for SP)


    ps: to the people posting about shades, re-read this:

    "Before flaming this suggestion, you have to understand that it would be a radical change, and would require other radical changes to every perkline in order to make sense."

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_road View Post
    "Before flaming this suggestion, you have to understand that it would be a radical change, and would require other radical changes to every perkline in order to make sense."
    Here's the thing, though. The problem he talks about is already being alleviated somewhat by the lengthening attack timers on many of the damage perks. It's a simpler and much easier solution to implement than a complete overhaul of the perk system that will have sketchy repercussions in PVM.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  5. #25
    With the locking out of all other perks in a line you would need to reduce the lockout times on pretty much every perk action out there. I would say reducing timers by at least half would be a good start with some possibly needing to be reduced even further.

    Another thing to consider would be the fact that people would potentially stop taking all perks in one line and putting more perks into more lines to have access to more dd perks active at one time.
    Malcom Ciafardoni
    Circle-G Inc. - The Past. The Present. Your Future.

    I'm not a gimp, I'm a trade skill Trader.

  6. #26
    <- shade. i lol'd.
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Aimed shot to me is not "I'm running in circles and I'm dressed like a big effing slobbering dog with two heads and I can't barely tell my ass from my face and I can see through walls but I can't hold a gun, but I can stop for a half second and aim out my ass at you and pop you for 10k PVP damage because FC thinks two headed dogs are cute and I'm an advy, why don't you just give me your PVP points because you'll never kill me even with a zerg"

  7. #27
    I like the idea, but I see two serious problems:
    First it severely lowers the possible actions you can initiate in a fight.
    Second it lowers the possibility for chained specials, since they have to come from different perklines.


    There is a possible variation, however. Whenever we get a special through our perks we'll get two or even three variations which share their timer. This leads to choice and strategy without screwing perk reliant classes.
    Examples are widespread. A regular DD perk could come with a medium damage, low recharge version geared for (PvM) damage and a high recharge high damage version to get some focused damage at the cost of higher recharge and loss of overall DPS.
    We could get DD or Debuff choices for offensive perks or Buff/Heal versions for beneficial perks. Soldier's Field Bandage, for example, could either be the current Heal or a short timed (duration=recharge) HealDelta buff for unfocused but overall slightly higher HPS or even a 2-3 minute buff to boost incoming heals by some amount, which could help in teamsituations.
    Last edited by Ikarus; Jun 2nd, 2010 at 12:51:22. Reason: my spelling's bee!
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

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