FC need to fix runspeed in the next patch.

[Taranide]

Want kiting fixed? Then balance ranged vs melee so other ranged than soldier can also take the heat. When melee catches someone who has to kite, the ranged dude will be in the world of problems.
If the there was no need to kite, then why would you do that?
Now lets have a look at the common melee professions. Martial artist, the damage, specially alpha is devastating. Enf with fear and 1hb/1he, yeah. Shade with gazillion of perks that actually hit hard and fast. Keeper on the other hand has been in the need of boost for quite a while now, but before HP madness they still were potential threat to kiters, and might as well as still be sometimes.

Just even the odds and lets make one more part of this game epic standing around.

[Moonbolt]

Ranged can't run and shoot at the same time.

it takes 0.01 seconds to stop and press AS or FA.

[Moonbolt]

Want kiting fixed? Then balance ranged vs melee so other ranged than soldier can also take the heat. When melee catches someone who has to kite, the ranged dude will be in the world of problems.
If the there was no need to kite, then why would you do that?
Now lets have a look at the common melee professions. Martial artist, the damage, specially alpha is devastating. Enf with fear and 1hb/1he, yeah. Shade with gazillion of perks that actually hit hard and fast. Keeper on the other hand has been in the need of boost for quite a while now, but before HP madness they still were potential threat to kiters, and might as well as still be sometimes.

Just even the odds and lets make one more part of this game epic standing around.

well what professions is it that is so squishy nowadays....
Fixers that can even resist a MR gank.
crats that u def need to MR gank or wear them down over time ... it takes atleast 1 min to kill a good crat unless u MR them.
agents that can instantly CH themself if u mess up with the alpha that has enough pvp dmg to bring down any enf that fails his alpha before his alpha recharges so he gets a second try.
sheild MPs are pretty easy to kill tho.
ranged adventurers that is the hardest prof to kill of all...
or NTs that is the self proclaimed glass cannons that can tank a minor raid for 30 seconds...

as i said earlier in this thread.. it shouldnt be easy to close to gap on ranged as melee... but it should be POSSIBLE wich it isnt atm.

its an issue that needs a hotfix or atleat a bandaid fix untill the balance patch hits.

[sultryvoltron]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this problem is much more complex than simply letting melee toons run faster. Until you come up with a better solution than that, this should not be implemented.

^ That.

agents that can instantly CH themself if u mess up with the alpha that has enough pvp dmg to bring down any enf that fails his alpha before his alpha recharges so he gets a second try.

Actually the 1hb/1he alpha is one of the hardest in game for an Agent to survive.

Also what Taranide said.

[Taranide]

well what professions is it that is so squishy nowadays....
Fixers that can even resist a MR gank.
crats that u def need to MR gank or wear them down over time ... it takes atleast 1 min to kill a good crat unless u MR them.
agents that can instantly CH themself if u mess up with the alpha that has enough pvp dmg to bring down any enf that fails his alpha before his alpha recharges so he gets a second try.
sheild MPs are pretty easy to kill tho.
ranged adventurers that is the hardest prof to kill of all...
or NTs that is the self proclaimed glass cannons that can tank a minor raid for 30 seconds...

as i said earlier in this thread.. it shouldnt be easy to close to gap on ranged as melee... but it should be POSSIBLE wich it isnt atm.

its an issue that needs a hotfix or atleat a bandaid fix untill the balance patch hits.

Fixer that resists MR alpha is 1/10 and even that has to be perfectly timed, also regular hits with enough AR will bust up a fixer faster than necessary. As a fixer I've seen many kind of situations and to survive 1on1 melee opponent must be gimped out.
Crat can be hard, but with care it can be very easy case even without MR.
Agents and CH, the state that has been overrated for long. Just a well timed/lucky stun and the casual agent is out of the game. It's a tough game and eventually agents rarely have to kite enf to make it a good match.
MP needs love.
Ranged adv needs a boot to the head.
After that 30s NT goes down fast and for a long time.

To fix "issue" like kiting, bandaid fix sounds only like a catastrophe. It needs to be a well thought out stunt. I'll rather wait and see what the RS balancing will look like in the possible future.

[Shrubberyman]

or NTs that is the self proclaimed glass cannons that can tank a minor raid for 30 seconds...

Way to discredit yourself... Not only can't we do that if there's more than 1 decent pvper around, but it takes a lot more than "0.01 seconds to stop and press" our nukes. And seriously, an enfo whining about how NTs perform... The more I think of it, the sweeter the irony of seeing the prof who abused the most the strafe run whine about how they can't catch peps now.

[-Klod-]

it takes 0.01 seconds to stop and press AS or FA.

Add in bugs, sync issues, cast cap on nanos and it takes much, much longer then that.

[ElBoogy]

wait strafe running is removed?

oh noes... there it goes i am pressing the D key for nothing since... hm some patches or so.

I think melee Professions should all get short snares, or something like a "knockdown" no knockback, just a knockdown, which occures sometimes and renders the target unable to move for 3 seconds, you could explain that with a very hard hit on the armor of the other one which throws him off his feet... yep that is what we need.

[Moonbolt]

Add in bugs, sync issues, cast cap on nanos and it takes much, much longer then that.

im currently mostly pvping on my 218 trader.... it doesnt take more then human reaction to stop pres 1 and start running again when kiting.... casting nanos tho lags sometimes when u trie.

[Moonbolt]

Way to discredit yourself... Not only can't we do that if there's more than 1 decent pvper around, but it takes a lot more than "0.01 seconds to stop and press" our nukes. And seriously, an enfo whining about how NTs perform... The more I think of it, the sweeter the irony of seeing the prof who abused the most the strafe run whine about how they can't catch peps now.

if u read 2 posts up from ur post u will see that i already said that NTs doesnt kite thnx to the cast times of nukes.. and yeah ive seen NTs liek Djantro tank 6 or 7 players w/o even nudging his HP while he has sheild up.

[Esqi]

Ahh tears from the Nerfest.

I like the change, means a enfo wont just zoom past me soon as i stop for a second to spam FA on them.

Ranged users got "Target not in range" all the time, when straif running was around.

[Molotoff]

and yeah ive seen NTs liek Djantro tank 6 or 7 players w/o even nudging his HP while he has sheild up.

One time, at band camp, one NT survived the alpha from over 9 000 peoples at the same time, without his HP moving at all. He then thanked God that people were still dumb enough to dump all their alpha into NS2 instead of waiting a few seconds and instasplatting him.

[Moonbolt]

smart reply Molotoff..

[Etyris]

Ahh tears from the Nerfest.

I like the change, means a enfo wont just zoom past me soon as i stop for a second to spam FA on them.

Ranged users got "Target not in range" all the time, when straif running was around.

The purpose of this change (ostensibly) was to fix sync issues. It was not meant to change the relative speed of professions in regard to each other. That is to make them all the same at TL7.

Enforcers are meant to outrun soldiers, thats why they have higher runspeed when they have rage up.

How this passed QA as is boggles the mind. This kind of cheap, quick fix QFE will be the death of AO.

[Kain97]

The change is fine... anything more in depth absolutely needs to be comprehensive, just making melee faster is just one more crappy bandaid fixes in a game full of them. We're supposed to be moving past that crap, not making it worse. If anything this change is good... as someone already said, any decent player already knew to strafe... so if you were both strafing before the change, you were in virtually the same position as you are now. All the change has done is leveled the playing field.

And Moonbolt, I dunno where you pvp, but I see ranged profs (not bad ones either) die to melee often enough, and I've seen plenty of enfs with nearly 4k rs run and kite more than most fixers. But I guess when melee do it to save their butts, it's ok; it's only when us evil ranged people do it that it's an obvious problem that needs to be fixed immediately.

[Etyris]

This is not a melee vs ranged issue. This is a game making sense issue.

The runspeed playing field was never meant to be level, and melee should not nessecerily be faster. The classes that should be faster should be faster. It's part of the way this game was designed. Every prof can reach the hardcap with OSB at 220. I hope you don't believe the original intent of the doctor prof was to have them moving at the same effective speed as fixers at endgame.

This ham handed sync fix harms more than just enfs. I feel bad for fixers primarily, even though I don't play that prof. If there is a belief that there is a problem with enf runspeed present a case, debate it and if nessecery fix it properly by changing rage.

I hope this is a temporary measure, and that FC will make this right and won't leave it in for too long.

[dritst]

One time, at band camp, one NT survived the alpha from over 9 000 peoples at the same time, without his HP moving at all. He then thanked God that people were still dumb enough to dump all their alpha into NS2 instead of waiting a few seconds and instasplatting him.

RK1

[Avari]

Can someone tell me how strafe running changed relative run speeds? All professions have just been reduced X amount in run speed, no? It's not like all ranged were reduced X and melee X+Y?

[Josephina]

Can someone tell me how strafe running changed relative run speeds? All professions have just been reduced X amount in run speed, no? It's not like all ranged were reduced X and melee X+Y?

How straferunning worked and how it is working now, mathematically:

• Before:
  
  • Forward runspeed = X
  • Strafing speed = Y = f(X) = a*X [Y is a linear function of X]
  • Straferunning speed = Z = sqrt(Z²) = sqrt(X²+Y²) = sqrt(X²+a²*X²) = sqrt((1+a)*X²) = X*sqrt(1+a²) [pythagoras]
• Now:
  
  • Forward runspeed = X
  • Strafing speed = Y = f(X) = a*X [Y is a linear function of X]
  • Straferunning speed = X = Forward runspeed

Now combine the above with a hardcap of the forward running speed: X_cap. Let's say profession 1 (X1 without cap) has more runspeed than profession 2 (X2 without cap), both above the cap, X1 > X2 > X_cap.

• Before:
  
  • Forward runspeed = X_cap
  • Strafing speed:
    
    • Strafing speed profession 1 = Y1 = f(X1) = a*X1
    • Strafing speed profession 2 = Y2 = f(X2) = a*X2
    • Comparison: Y1 > Y2
  • Straferunning speed:
    
    • Straferunning speed profession 1 = Z1 = sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X1²)
    • Straferunning speed profession 2 = Z2 = sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X2²)
    • Comparison: X1 > X2 => Z1 > Z2
• Now:
  
  • Forward runspeed = X_cap
  • Strafing speed = f(X) = a*X_cap = Y_cap
  • Straferunning speed = X_cap = Z_cap = Forward runspeed
• The lost runspeed by this change:
  
  • Profession 1: [Z1 - Z_cap] = [sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X1²) - X_cap]
  • Profession 2: [Z2 - Z_cap] = [sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X2²) - X_cap]
  • Since X1 > X2 => [sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X1²) - X_cap] > [sqrt(X_cap²+a²*X2²) - X_cap] => profession 1 has lost more runspeed than profession 2.

To summarize the pointless math above: the further you were above the runspeed cap, the more runspeed you lost by being reduced to this cap (duuh). Since melee professions (except keepers) are able to obtain more runspeed skill than ranged professions (excepting fixers and ranged adventurers), melee professions lost more runspeed with this change than ranged professions. Not too mention that it's totally retarded to have a game where melee professions cannot under any conditions catch up to a running target.

[Marinegent]

Get GSF and you can catch that nasty kiter! Wow! Who would've thought, a useful buff :O

Not everyone likes to rely on OSB's to pvp.

Some of us even pride ourselves on always being selfed.