Changes to roots and snares.

[Shrubberyman]

You did not read the thread, right? :/

[Moonbolt]

well said loucretia

[Shrubberyman]

Nor did you by the look of it.

[bitnykk]

i didn't read anything neither but my opinion on root & snares is that they shouldn't be boring plain long like 20 min, nor be easily spammable with silly instacasting & low nanocost. also it's all legitimate to have efficient removers (perks & items) against them. but on the other hand they should be able to land pretty often in PVP to be any usefull.

quickly : they should be short (especially roots) but effective to allow a little kite or bail when needed, but nothing more. i think that's mainly what direction FC is taking on them & i agree.
oppositely i'd just want to mention that would be more fair to make AOE root/unroot from SBs given to every sides, but i don't seem FC is ready for that one ...

[Loucretia]

You did not read the thread, right? :/

I read the thread all the way through.

[Shrubberyman]

So if your concept for roots and snares is to keep them as unbalanced as they are right now, or even more one-sided from some of the suggestions here, I hope FC implement something more balanced.

So you went through the whole thread and got from it that it was a desperate lobbying attempt at “keeping them as unbalanced as they are right now”?
Now, that’s exceptionally weird, given as there is a global consensus over the main features that should characterize snares and roots in the future, the only real disagreements being on technical aspects, absolutely not on the spirit behind them.

I will try a tl,dr version.

Global consensus:
- They should be unspammable. (They are)
- You shouldn’t be able to keep someone indefinitely. (You can’t, with the notable and very theoric exception of Fixers' snare)
- They should be short. (They are, max 15s)

Main disagreements:
- The amount of available immunity (by the look of it, pretty much the same as before)
- The nature of the “spamproof” mechanic. A small note here. FC has seemingly opted for the attacker-side cooldown. Which means two things: 1) the cooldown will trigger on casting, whether it lands, get countered, resisted or removed 2) several CCers can try to collaborate to keep someone else rooted.

[bitnykk]

several CCers can try to collaborate to keep someone else rooted.

on the other hand PVP rebalance has to focus on 1 vs 1 encouters.
that way you make teaming more desired, that's all about designing a MMO : if there's no benefit in teaming lotta people play sole way (remember old e-peen PVP titles ...). that's up to players to be creative and come up w deadly combos against wich others will have to congregate and invent some tactics. isn't all about team PVP fun ?

[crattey]

several CCers can try to collaborate to keep someone else rooted.

Several non-CCers can collaborate to just instantly wtfpwnrape someone

[Shrubberyman]

on the other hand PVP rebalance has to focus on 1 vs 1 encouters.
that way you make teaming more desired, that's all about designing a MMO : if there's no benefit in teaming lotta people play sole way (remember old e-peen PVP titles ...). that's up to players to be creative and come up w deadly combos against wich others will have to congregate and invent some tactics. isn't all about team PVP fun ?

I might have misunderstood you, or I might have failed at being clear, but actually the possibility for several CCers to collaborate suits me just fine. That's what I was supporting in the spamproof arguements. As a sidenote, I was also supporting the "cooldown on landing or countering only" but it seems FC did not go my way on that part.

Several non-CCers can collaborate to just instantly wtfpwnrape someone

Exactly my point, "wtfpwnrape" being swappable with "heal" or "debuff" I may add, so I couldn't the see why CC should be treated any differently.

[crattey]

Exactly my point, "wtfpwnrape" being swappable with "heal" or "debuff" I may add, so I couldn't the see why CC should be treated any differently.

Because it will cause massive whines from everyone else. There's nothing wrong with alpha'd by an enforcer or soldier, because, well, they're big, mean combat profs, right? Does anyone recall what happened when crats had stun procs that allowed them to kill efficiently?

For some reason, it's fine to steamroll someone. But CC them into submission and wear them down over 5-10 seconds? So unfair!

[Obtena]

^^ Wow, someone is grasping for air if they are pulling the 'nerfed permastuns' card. If that's your view, you are just in denial about how retarded permastunning someone to death actually was. Efficient killing? Laughable. I'm not even sure how you could call that 'PVP' ... it was more like just 'P'.

[crattey]

^^ Wow, someone is grasping for air if they are pulling the 'nerfed permastuns' card. If that's your view, you are just in denial about how retarded permastunning someone to death actually was. Efficient killing? Laughable. I'm not even sure how you could call that 'PVP' ... it was more like just 'P'.

Yeah, exactly how alphaing someone is not PvP. Thanks for being a good example of how warped people's views can be, though.

[howlin]

TL7 Enforcers:
Nano based resistance to roots/snare (self): 0%
Potential perk+nano based snare/root resistance (self): 0%
Nano-based root/snare remover: once every 10s. Any CC landing will be removed within 10s (including all fixers’ CC, but seemingly NOT including Keepers’ root), IF the Enforcer doesn’t keep Challenger up at all times. (Nano skills inoperative 20s over the 30s that Chall lasts).
Noteworthy: the 1200 NR mod is a somewhat efficient (if uncertain) defense against CC.
Fear’s snare: 5s duration, 160s cooldown, 50% NR Check

20%

[Neista]

Because it will cause massive whines from everyone else. There's nothing wrong with alpha'd by an enforcer or soldier, because, well, they're big, mean combat profs, right? Does anyone recall what happened when crats had stun procs that allowed them to kill efficiently?

For some reason, it's fine to steamroll someone. But CC them into submission and wear them down over 5-10 seconds? So unfair!

Haha, well said!

[Shrubberyman]

20%

Like I said to Weltall, I try to work on the basis of the balancing info we do have, namely Profession and Group perks and nano sheets. That's why i don't count (for now) the resistance bestowed by items.

[bitnykk]

me say : nerf alphas & shorten root/snares !
hey but ... isn't it what is happening ?

I might have misunderstood you

i wasn't contradicting you personnally, just the argument against several CCers.
oh & btw, that guy was right to recall the 20% resistance item ^^

[Shrubberyman]

The reason I don't count Resistance bestowing items is that I have no idea if Balancing will steamroll them or keep them as they are. That's why I stick to nano and perks (for now).

[Obtena]

Yeah, exactly how alphaing someone is not PvP. Thanks for being a good example of how warped people's views can be, though.

No, because alphaing allows a player to still respond to that, believe it or not, unlike permastuns. It's irrelevant anyways. If you have been paying attention to the perk documentation and the specials lockout, you would realize that the kind of alpha you are talking about simply won't exist in the new scheme, except perhaps for shades who's perk executions didn't get increased to 2 seconds, so it's a fallacy to refer to it with respect to other aspects of the changes as well.

[Jerusha]

I really want roots to be reduced. A player once rooted me on BS and danced in front of me, I was unable to hit him at all. So he just kept me rooted and spammed the nano on me, used all my stims for nothing. Was on my MA, not engi.
So he just kept me from playing with his roots and did not even try to kill me.
Roots need that change.
regards

[Shrubberyman]

Updated OP.