The reason I suggest to repost it in enfo forum is that the enfo profs can properly moderate out the inevitably stupid stuff a thread like this will attract.Originally Posted by Gatester
The reason I suggest to repost it in enfo forum is that the enfo profs can properly moderate out the inevitably stupid stuff a thread like this will attract.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Maybe everyones idea about Enf being a massive hulk absorbing dmg would have merit and be viable, if it wasnt for the very serious flaw in mechanics that the more HPs we have the more dmg we take.
Ive said it time and time again Enf should have the ability that for every 10k of HPs we have we take a X% less amount of dmg. Wethre this idea can acctually be implemented is beyond my knowledge.
Until the day HPs for Enf gets fixed yes we should have high ADD, yes we should have high alpha, yes we should have a high AR.
Because our HPs and regular dmg wont do jack for us right now in current mechanics
Big "T"
President of Nocturnal Fear
Except it is. If everyone was endgame, Enforcers would have very little need for evades at all. It would literally only come into play when facing support prof regular pistol shots and the like.Cool, go reset your evades then if it's oh so useless, free up some IP!defense against perks isn't all evades/AAD do you nab and yes, even against endgame ppl
Those aren't what people are whining about.
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
Really now? So that missed FA, that missed crit from a MA, that missed burst, those pets that miss, those missed brawls, fast attacks and normals and such aren't useful at all?
If you weren't being so overly sensational, maybe it would be worth talking to you about this. I can assure you, a self-buffed, end game enfo is NOT getting missed by equivalently equipped end game <<name other profession HERE>> using <<name special here>> . If you can restrict yourself to exaggerating LESS, you could be taken more seriously. iF an enfo is being missed by those equivalent toons, it's simply because they are OSb'ed and teamed with crats and keepers, etc... You're not fooling anyone, but your doing a damn good job making yourself look equally foolish.Really now? So that missed FA, that missed crit from a MA, that missed burst, those pets that miss, those missed brawls, fast attacks and normals and such aren't useful at all?
Kink makes valid points based on his vast experience and they are not completely out of line with the experience of other enforcers at the end-game. You're trivial and situational observations are certainly no match for the experience of the total of the enforcer population.
I'm fairly convinced that an end-game enfo only needs enough evades to not get critted 100% or FA capped by gimp walking dsharks. That's especially true if you aren't dueling and even more true in a mass PVP setting. Unfortunately, none of the defenses we do possess scale appropriately past the 1 vs. 1 encounter, so the result is a mob of morons and gimps trying to tell FC how OP'ed enfos are when they encounter them one on one. GREAT!
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 03:33:15.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
As obtena mentioned above, no, these really don't miss much at all, from similarily equipped players.Really now? So that missed FA, that missed crit from a MA, that missed burst, those pets that miss, those missed brawls, fast attacks and normals and such aren't useful at all?
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
In the spirit of the thread, here is my personal numbers with equip in sig, selfbuffed.
Max health: 32488 (with imongo)
Evade/duck/dodge: 1580
AAD: 1075
Nano Resist: 3286 (with rage up)
Attack Rating: 3369 (with Hammer and Anvil, challenger up)
Healing per minute: Not sure, but my HD is 210
Runspeed: 3109
Alpha damage (damage over 8 seconds should suffice): LOW: I'm 2HB
Stun number: See perk setup
Stun duration during alpha: Alpha is for gimps
Regular hits damage or Damage per minute: I reg hit for 2600 on low AC mobs at 1/1 on full def. You decide if that's good or bad.
What SHOULD they be? Depends what kind of AR you need to perk evaders through DOF/Limber. Take that value, call it X, remove X from AAD, add X to AR. More susceptible to gimps and stuff? I don't mind. I think that will all change with the balancing.
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 04:15:04.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
In the spirit of the thread, here is my personal numbers with equip in sig, selfbuffed.
Max health: 32488 (with imongo)
Evade/duck/dodge: 1580
AAD: 1075
Nano Resist: 3286 (with rage up)
Attack Rating: 3369 (with Hammer and Anvil, challenger up)
Healing per minute: Not sure, but my HD is 210
Runspeed: 3109
Alpha damage (damage over 8 seconds should suffice): LOW: I'm 2HB
Stun number: See perk setup
Stun duration during alpha: Alpha is for gimps
Regular hits damage or Damage per minute: I reg hit for 2600 on low AC mobs at 1/1 on full def. You decide if that's good or bad.
What SHOULD they be? Depends what kind of AR you need to perk evaders through DOF/Limber. Take that value, call it X, remove X from AAD, add X to AR. More susceptible to gimps and stuff? I don't mind. I think that will all change with the balancing.
That evade rating sounds very low. (I didn't look at equip but this sounds like a non-evade setup.
on my MA I'm at around 2300 static.
-180 for buffs, -200ish for acrobat -about 150 or so for research
which gives 1770.
From my understanding, enfs can make a few concessions to equip/AR to get substantially higher defence (relatively) than for example an evade prof, by some simple swaps.
Enforcers can only get about 1100-1200 AAD and that is with sacrificing some slots, oh no I unraveled a mystery, enforcers have to make sacrifices!
Obtena's post is pretty cookie cutter of what most enforcers have. Give or take.
And whoever said enforcers heal for 30-35k a min is a moron.
There is a world apart beetween 1he/1hb or piercing/1hb enfos and 2hb ones, tbh, from the receiving end's PoV. I have yet to meet any 2hb enfo i perceive as a threat.
Same for most 2he guys today, altho the couple good ones on rk1 are giving me a run for my money, and eventually spanks me hard too (thinking Herk, Rossi, that ones enfo that overuse Fr Str perks, Dracojr, too).
Still any 1hb based enfo is 2x worse then any Herk or Rossi. Maybe some other profession can confirm this as well ?
Anyhow, with 3.1k-ish AR I miss enfs pretty often on my MA, enfs with all their AR can perk my NT easily but I do notice they miss brawls/regulars and I got something like 2.8k evade cls def on the NT and yes, I'm talking about endgame enfs here.
It's probability you retard, learn how it works sometime.
Lets check that statement:
imongo heals for 500/ 2s 10 hits =20s
healdelta is 200/2s
cost on imongo is 845 -20% cost (estimated)= approx 600
nano pool = 8k approx.
So, enf can easily chain imongo for 1 minute (thats 3 casts)
imongo =510/2s*60s= 15300 hp/min
HD is 200/2s*60s= 6000 hp/min
bio rejuve is 1600/30 seconds =3200 hp/min
blessing is dunno, 1k/40s*60s=1500 hp/min
draw blood? 2000 hp/min approx
lifeblood: 240*14/300s*60s= 672 hp/min
bio R: 500*29/(5*60)*60s= 2900 hp/min
All in: 29574 hp/min give or take.
30k health per minute +/- 1.4% thats not that far off?
Add some stims to the mix, maybe a little sitdown sesh of HD, 35000k is definitly not far off.
errr first of all blessing is a keeper perk...
second of all LOL.....
if the enf is 1hb and 1he he will either have less HD or no draw blood and no lifeblood.
and bio rejuvenation isnt 1600 ... its 880 and have a 3 second attack time so its hardly ever used since we cant use any items like our endurance booster while its loading.
and draw blood has a min dmg of 325 wich translates to 160 in pvp wich is the usual amount it hits for... well i can stretch to 500 as usual amount it hits for.'
way to argue ur point by chosing multiple perkilines at once that wont be used together in a so called OP setup and involving keeper perks and using max possible numbers of all hits.
everyone that is complaining about enforcer healing aswell forgett that we take 10k caps from 11 sec specials on a regular basis while MAs and fixers that can evade other professions perks etc only cap at around 4-5k.
so the effective healing vs HP has to be doubled in enfs case to be as effective. and that is if we dont count perks hitting.
Last edited by Moonbolt; Jul 27th, 2010 at 08:38:22.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
Exactly. So maybe it is related to enforcers specifically?
The thing that bothers me most about enfos is their def rating and NR. All the other stuff in conjunction with those things is just adding insult to an already op'd situation. Your a freaking tank profession. You have the means to take damage better than any other profession AND you have the def rating of traders, MP's, NT's and agents, uh what? Your NR is completely out of control too. It'd be one thing if you perked NR2 to get the numbers you can, but for free is just ridiculous. There's having a tough bit of luck landing nanos, and then theres trying to land nanos on an enforcer.
Whoever had the idea of challenger giving negative aad relative to how much aao is added is a good one. For rage, the runspeed is fine and the insta'ing out of CC is fine but being able to keep such high NR up all the time has got to go.
Max health - 35000. One thing that seperates enforcers from most other profs in pvp, is they aren't really alpha'able like most other profs. This is akin to their health and as such gives them some "uniqueness".
Evade/duck/dodge - 1800-2000 evades, depending on setup.
AAD - 400-600 aad, depending on setup. Assuming all out defense, 2600~ is not too low while not giving enforcers the "invincibility" that they are branching out to right now.
Nano Resist - Should remain high. Another enforcer trademark.
Attack Rating - Should be fairly high, but not on the same level as soldiers. After challanger/procs im thinking 3.4k tops in an offensive setup.
Healing per minute - In the range of 3k, after mongo/HD.
Runspeed - Slower than they are now. I dont want to see them keeping up with fixers anymore. Doesnt mean "more rootable" just slower.
Absorb levels (this might be harder but it may be the only strength anyone gives us) - High. This is a good enforcer trademark.
Rage lockout duration (I won't be upset if you skip this one) - If you nerf enforcer runspeed gain from rage, significantly, and base run speed some - i can see this not having a lockout. or a very short one. If no nerf to runspeed, than a high lockout.
Alpha damage (damage over 8 seconds should suffice) - should vary with weapon choice, but more alpha power should come at the cost of defense. No more of this "i have everything at once" crap.
Stun number - ranging from 0 to 2. Depends on weapons, and even sacrifices should come with it.
Stun duration during alpha - 2s-3s.
Regular hits damage or Damage per minute - 1.8k-2.8k hits (before pvp reduction). Lower regulars should come with better spike damage via perks. And lower spike, higher regs.
I just want to see enforcers make a choice somewhere. They are OP because they have everything right now.
Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
"Moonmarin" - 220/30/80 Solitus Martial Artist
"Marinekeep" - 215/18/4x Atrox Keeper
and the irony ... That has NOTHING to do with the kinds of numbers an enfo can get on their stats ... So all this crying about enfo ar/evades, etc... is purely stupid. If an enfo kills you fast, it's just a combination of perks and specials that land on you. Fixing the stats an enfo can get will NOT change how badly people get destroyed by enfos in the current game state.
As a matter of fact, a 2HB enfo can get the highest AR of any enfo setup and according to you, aren't a threat. See the problem?
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 14:33:05.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
And that's simply because you like most others have a false perception of what enofos can actually get. My current setup lacks 1 thing ... 2 Igocs. Those with highway, I could get 2900 aad self, which would be temporary. That is the 'difficult' evades that enfos are using to merrily dance around BS not being hit by people? Gimme a break.
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 15:00:36.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Oh, I'm a retard .. from you, that's a compliment. At least I know how the game works. When you get more experience, then you can come talk and play with the big boys ... I already explained how it's possible and realistic you miss enfos with 3100 AR. A crat aura would be enough. Of course, that means that enfo was smart enough to use teaming or others to support him ... what were you doing? Running around solo? NICE! Brush up on your ABC's if you missed it in the post.
Endgame enfos miss you with Brawl on a 2800 evade NT? So what? That's a nice bonfire story but that means pretty much nothing to me. I don't know what their setup was, I don't know if they had challenger running, I don't know if they were debuffed, etc... so how do you want me to comment on that? You want to educate me on the finer points of AO PVP mechanics, you better bring out something worth talking about as opposed to that one time in band camp when an enfo missed a brawl on your NT.
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 14:50:35.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
All that is rather irrelvant....
The relevant stat is some ratio of heals to HP, as a function of time. Put it this way, If I could make an enfo with 10 HP, I would because my Heals would be OPed at that point. The reality is that enfos have some of the MOST hp in the game, so all those huge heal number look really really good, until you realize most people can hit with SOMETHING for 10K in a hit rather consistently. That applies to all professions, so I dunno wht enfos are the target of people's desires to nerf their heal rates. I wouldn't have any problem with fixing that if HP actually had some scaling effect in PVP. But it don't, so it's pretty irrelevant what the heal rate is by itself.
Enfos tanking 3-4 people? I've seen it. It's not because enfos are OP'ed, it's because people are stupid and don't know when to use their specials to take one down in 2-3 seconds.
Last edited by Obtena; Jul 27th, 2010 at 15:04:10.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Enfos actually do make a significant choice for a good number of spots, especailly 1HB ones. The problem here is two parts ... FC needs to provide options (most UTIL and HUD slots are no-brainers for enfos) and the fact that AAD has not scaled by the same amounts AAO has. That's actually put enfos in a worse position for making choices because if an enfo DID want to focus on AAO setup, it won't be effective, so they go with the optimized AAD one instead.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
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