What stats should the enforcer profession have?

[Moonbolt]

Bout doc - i personnally have nothing against the fact they could possibly be unbeatable 1 vs 1 by anyone, it's part of their role. Ofc as a NT if i step on a doc i just have the possibility to root him and keep goin.

Bout agent, i find surprising you can't drop a 20/25K alpha in a 8 seconds time ? possibly larger time window with init debuff ?

good agents will break the stun with a FM stim or similar and get off a CH in the middle of the fight wich will make the alpha ALMOST kill them instead.
or get off a stun perk at about the same time as i do and interrupt the dmg long enough to get a heal of etc etc.
agents have ways to counter enfs alpha... most agent players just arnt experienced enough to do it.

[Koizumi]

good agents will break the stun with a FM stim

Yes, because FM use time AND the time till the nano actually lands @ 0 sec and disables afterwards is not enough for an enf!
This would be lolworthy if fm usage and time till the stun is actually off from NCU would be a bit better deisgned(as in faster).....but its not.

or similar

Or similiar.....stun remover?
FM-like?
My NCU irl might be failing, but....what are you talking about? o0

[Moonbolt]

Yes, because FM use time AND the time till the nano actually lands @ 0 sec and disables afterwards is not enough for an enf!
This would be lolworthy if fm usage and time till the stun is actually off from NCU would be a bit better deisgned(as in faster).....but its not.


Or similiar.....stun remover?
FM-like?
My NCU irl might be failing, but....what are you talking about? o0

MoR for example.
im not sure if purifying rods remove stuns aswell... thought they did but dont see anything in the description about that on auno.
and ive never tried the alba sipit purges aswell so not sure if the affect stuns.
specially since FM stim doesnt say shorten durations on stuns in the description on auno aswell.

but if i can stim out of shades stuns with a FM stim on my trader u should be able to do the same with an enf stun.

[Obtena]

Wtf are you talking about? I said "ENF's TARGET" survivability.....are you blind? or intentionally misreading?

Honestly, I'm mostly ignoring you, since A) you can't seem to follow a conversation without trolling it and B) most the stuff you post isn't worth replying to.

[Koizumi]

MoR for example.
im not sure if purifying rods remove stuns aswell... thought they did but dont see anything in the description about that on auno.
and ive never tried the alba sipit purges aswell so not sure if the affect stuns.
specially since FM stim doesnt say shorten durations on stuns in the description on auno aswell.

Oh boy.....good one....
Smbdy who doesnt even know the basic stuff about nanolines is trying to teach me something about PvP, hahaha

Ok, ill give ya a hint mr. big boy, a hint that you'd find out by yourself after actually getting some experience (or just after moving your ass to auno and checking stuns themselves):

- Living Embalming School Combat: Calm

Also, no, MotR does NOT remove stuns. It gives 100% root/snare/calm resist.
And even if it did, its a lolworthy argument because of MotR's lockout time

Honestly, I'm mostly ignoring you, since A) you can't seem to follow a conversation without trolling it and B) most the stuff you post isn't worth replying to.

Seems like a description of your actions when you encounter any posts that could suggest nerfing/harming enforcers in any way.
And btw, point proven, nr nerf WOULD increase survivability of alot of professions.

[Obtena]

I'm just responding to you inkind with your 90% trolling content. You seem to have assumed that:

1. All profs should be able to kill or survive enfos.I know alot of people use the "all profs shoudl be able to kill other profs" as their definition of balance, and it's their banner for whatever they rally for, but if you think for a minute, you might find it's simply not true. IT's much more complex than that and you have to be more than an average troll to really understand the implications of what 'balance' is. If you're expectation is that every prof will stand an equal chance to survive and kill any other prof, you WILL be disappointed with the balancing effort. It simply won't happen at the scale that FC is making the changes, at least for now. If that is what you think, you have obviously convinced yourself into believing something that is highly improbable.

2. Even if it is true that balance means everyone equal to everyone else and i'm completely wrong, you have decided that a nerf is in order, instead of taking another approach to improve the toolsets of other professions. That's a rather stupid approach IMO for many reasons, but primarily because it completely disregards any of the fact that this 'balance' exercise isn't happening for a small subset of everything. In fact, it's like you aren't even aware of the other changes that are going to happen, but have no problem advoacting changes that may in fact make the situation WORSE for the game after the balancing.

OK, you can now resume crying about enfo NR please, because enfo NR nerf will definitely make it so that enfos can't kill you anymore.

[Koizumi]

1. All profs should be able to kill or survive enfos.

No i did not.
But i ASSUME that quite a few SHOULD be able to do so.
Also an enf, like majority, should have a nemesis prof....as most profs do.
Funny thing, enfs dont have one...but obviously you wouldnt understand that, go figure.

I know alot of people use the "all profs shoudl be able to kill other profs" as their definition of balance, and it's their banner for whatever they rally for, but if you think for a minute, you might find it's simply not true. IT's much more complex than that and you have to be more than an average troll to really understand the implications of what 'balance' is.

Where did you see me asking for that? Stop smoking weed.
All i asked for was for more indirect survivability through a direct nerf to enforcer's NR.

If you're expectation is that every prof will stand an equal chance to survive and kill any other prof

No they werent, you either took that out of the blue or a white mouse whispered it to you.
Every prof being able to kill another prof is a joke since it requires a 1v1 situation, and we all know what FC said about that.
I never asked for that.
If i would, what would be the point for rolling all the different professions (other than being able to kill all the different profs which i cant kill on others, which is why i actually did it).

OK, you can now resume crying about enfo NR please, because enfo NR nerf will definitely make it so that enfos can't kill you anymore.

First, roll a crat and then try commenting about crat's survivability.
I spose you're too blind to see the results of that kind of nerf.

Atm, with enforcer's NR, on a fully nanoskill-oriented setup crat (that means significantly nerfing defences) and with -NR aura, the enf countered a 45% NR check nano seven times in a row...
And no, i dont mean resisted...countered.
A chance of landing GRM would actually give me a chance to run and live.
But my bad, you probably never played anything beside your wonderfull enf, why would you bother trying to walk in other people's shoes

As for other profs, traders, the corp prot actually having a chance to land ...for docs, better landrate of init debuffs(inb4: speed preservation unit is one of the biggest jokes of AO design and should be deleted).

[Obtena]

Well, you are just being sensational then because people kill enfos. I know because I have one and die plenty. I also have other profs that have killed enfos as well. If you're whole premise for a nerf is based on the fact that some profs should kill enfos, then the nerf isn't warranted because it's already true. It happens alot more than you seem to think or care to admit. You're perception of how often it happens is irrelevant TBH. IMO, you think enfos don't have a nemesis because you fail on the profs you play vs. enfo. That doesn't make it true though.

As for the other stuff, it's fluff. LAWL @ me only playing enfo. That's a lame and stupid thing to say, you know it. I'm not commenting on crats either, so why you bring it up, is again, just a pathetic attempt to troll. FC is NOT balancing based on 1 vs. 1 encounters so when you start saying "OMG crat vs. ENFO, QQ NERF PLZ", that's just when I and others should ignore you. It's irrelevant.

Instead of me rolling a crat to tell you how OPed enfos are, you should roll an enfo and THEN tell me something about enfo PVP. That actually makes some sense and would give you even a sliver of credibility to be taken seriously in a thread about ENfo TL7 PVP. Until then, you should tone down your rhetoric a bit about what you think, as a non-enfo TL7 PVPer, should happen to balance the PVP aspect of TL7 enfos. Your experience is NOT the general consenus, for or against enfos, and you do NOT speak for the majority of the unwashed masses on the subject. Sounds reaonsable? UMK then.

[Koizumi]

Well, you are just being sensational then because people kill enfos. I know because I have one and die plenty.

I pvp on BS quite often....i think i am yet to see you there.
If you die often, you're doing it wrong then.
Go and watch Forz/Peebeebeedee/Marbreath/or other minors such as Piranhaz f.ex pvp there...im pretty sure they are very FAR from "die often".

If you're whole premise for a nerf is based on the fact that some profs should kill enfos, then the nerf isn't warranted because it's already true. It happens alot more than you seem to think or care to admit.

As i said, i rarely see you on BS. Therfore i am yet to believe in anything you say about enf's dying often.

You're perception of how often it happens is irrelevant TBH.

This tells how much of a "professional" you are

As for the other stuff, it's fluff. LAWL @ me only playing enfo. That's a lame and stupid thing to say, you know it. I'm not commenting on crats either, so why you bring it up, is again, just a pathetic attempt to troll. FC is NOT balancing based on 1 vs. 1 encounters. When you start saying "OMG crat vs. ENFO, QQ NERF PLZ", that's just when I and others should ignore you. It's irrelevant.

Allright then:
Crat/trader/nt/doc/agent/mp...enough?
As in multiple choices from the above, even with an addition of not mentioned, not being able to do sth.
The fact that i only speak for the profs i play doesnt mean enfs dont wipe the floor with others.
And yet once again, i never said anything about 1v1, stop taking advices from that white mouse.

Instead of me rolling a crat to tell you how OPed enfos are, you should roll an enfo and THEN tell me something about enfo PVP.

Why would i? I have multiple professions that die easily to an enf, not to mention other professions who also have stated their opinions about OPness of enf toolset.
For me and for others thats enough of an indicator.

Your experience is NOT the general consenus, for or against enfos, and you do NOT speak for the majority of the unwashed masses on the subject. Sounds reaonsable? UMK then.

Gee, and i thought quite the few people who get poxed by enfs AND their opinions on multiple threads, not to mention the amount of threads about enfs would be enough of an indicator that im not in the minority

And to stay on topic: ill only propose 3 things:
- NR - 2100 selfed w/o rage
- moderate rage lockout and NR on it cut to maybe ~50%
- removal of rage procs

[Obtena]

I pvp on BS quite often....i think i am yet to see you there.
If you die often, you're doing it wrong then.
Go and watch Forz/Peebeebeedee/Marbreath/or other minors such as Piranhaz f.ex pvp there...im pretty sure they are very FAR from "die often".

And to stay on topic: ill only propose 3 things:
- NR - 2100 selfed w/o rage
- moderate rage lockout and NR on it cut to maybe ~50%
- removal of rage procs

Wow, the old "I don't see you so you must not PVP" argument again. LIke I haven't seen that one in the last few days. I guess it's because I only play enfo according to you right? Wait ... I didn't see you at BS either. That must mean you suck at PVP too right? I know tons of other people that didn't see you either. That MUST mean you're really terrible at it.

Yes, and of course, you make a good case ... take the TOP PVP enfos and see them kill everyone ... that surely means all enfos are OPed. Well noted. That's always the relevant metric to compare all other from. You're ridiculous.

And yes on topic, you haven't made ANY link to nerfing rage and how that makes enfos less OPed. You're just latching on to their key defensive skill and assuming that nerfing it will have a huge impact on their PVP. Hell, if you can't see the things that make enfos excel at killing you, I think this conversation is over. It's NOT NR. You can go back to talking nonsense to anyone willing to listen to you.

BTW= your proposal is nonsense on 3 points:

1. I have 3287 NR with Hellish rage that gives 1200. My BASE NR is less than what you are recommending. So you actually recommending that top geared enfos should have MORE NR than they have now? OK. That must be your amazing insight to how TL7 enfo PVP works again?
2. Rage is already said to be getting a cooldown. Maybe you should follow along, read the documentation that's been released so you look less foolish with regards to this whole balancing exercise you seem oblivious to.
3. Procs are being reworked across the board, and I don't even think most enfos use rage procs in PVP, though others would have to comment on that. So again. LAWL. Nerf procs that few to no enfos use.

That's a bang up recommendation. I'm all for it actually. More NR and nerfing stuff I don't use. Lovely. That should REALLY nerf the hell out of enfos. Look out Forz and Marb.

[Koizumi]

Wow, the old "I don't see you so you must not PVP" argument again. LIke I haven't seen that one in the last few days. I guess it's because I only play enfo according to you right?

Doesnt change the fact that as much as i pvp for a really long time on tl7 bs, i have never even once seen you there(not to mention other people).
Apparently your pvp experience consist of tara/towers/bor?
And by the way..asked around people who often pvp @ BS...i suppose you can guess how "often" they've seen you?
As most of nowadays pvp happens at BS, if you dont show up there (well, since my crat being 210, 2 years ago, i dont even remember seeing you once, isnt that a bit...long absence?) , whats your actual knowledge of actual enfo pvp reality?
Let me guess....you know because of your other hidden characters that you play
Well, either way, you probably have some "sources" eh?
I suppose Moonbolt widely describes you everything, among the facts of MotR removing stuns and FM not having stun removal in its lists on auno
As much as little i myself know about enf pvp, you seem to know even less...weird for an enf professional...ever thought of changing your position? (no ofc no, with your trolling skills you must be a damn good professional, i bet last rage upgrade was your job too eh?)

Yes, and of course, you make a good case ... take the TOP PVP enfos and see them kill everyone ... that surely means all enfos are OPed. Well noted. That's always the relevant metric to compare all other from. You're ridiculous.

I mentioned top AND mid enfos, thats one.
Second, being top or bottom enf, doesnt change the fact that enf toolset is OPed.

And yes on topic, you haven't made ANY link to nerfing rage and how that makes enfos less OPed.

Oh, im sorry, i thought that you would understand such an obvious fact
Allright: less NR = bigger landrate of nanos = bigger chance of lowering/stopping enf's offense/lowering its defense, thus an indirect nerf through other profession's toolsets.
Ubt, roots, red tapes, cb, drains, anything that lands more often makes an enf less OPed.
Enough?

You're just latching on to their key defensive skill and assuming that nerfing it will have a huge impact on their PVP. Hell, if you can't see the things that make enfos excel at killing you, I think this conversation is over. It's NOT NR. You can go back to talking nonsense to anyone willing to listen to you.

I never said NR is what kills me, obviously its their offensive perks and shznitload of specials.
I said NR could be a SOLUTION to these easy kills.
Since nerfing enf;s offense would only help evader classes when encountering enfs, i dont think that its a good idea for a nerf.
Thus NR, a way to debuff enforcer enough so that im(or other profs) able to stop/diminish the destructive effectiveness of that big chunk of meat.

I have 3287 NR with Hellish rage that gives 1200. My BASE NR (and my gear is awesome) is already what you are recommending. So for less fortunatel enfos, you are actually recommending an increase in NR. That's your simply amazing insight to TL7 enfos at work again

A static NR increase, a serious dynamic NR decrease through nerf of rage/procs removal.

2. Rage is already said to be getting a cooldown, so maybhe your just wasting your breathe because you are ignorant

Rage is something that should've been reworked ages ago.

[Obtena]

Doesnt change the fact that as much as i pvp for a really long time on tl7 bs, i have never even once seen you there(not to mention other people).
Apparently your pvp experience consist of tara/towers/bor?

No, it's simply the fact that you and those other people make stupid assumptions about who I am ingame. /shrug

I can't wait to get more base NR based on your recommendation, as well as nerfs to stuff I don't use or that are already slated to happen. It's going to be tough to swallow that nerf. I hope Forz and Marb don't quit when it happens.

[Moonbolt]

No i did not.
But i ASSUME that quite a few SHOULD be able to do so.
Also an enf, like majority, should have a nemesis prof....as most profs do.
Funny thing, enfs dont have one...but obviously you wouldnt understand that, go figure.

omg... do u know how soldiers tear enfs apart??
a full endgame enf has 0 chance to outlast or kill a soldier thru a full endgame sold thru AMS.

[Koizumi]

omg... do u know how soldiers tear enfs apart??
a full endgame enf has 0 chance to outlast or kill a soldier thru a full endgame sold thru AMS.

Wow, soldiers, ONE prof that actually does something to you!
No, wait, make it 2, i spose fixers count too.
Btw Moon, if i were you, id stop posting here after you made a priceless show of your knowledge about AO pvp just a few posts ago

No, it's simply the fact that you and those other people make stupid assumptions about who I am ingame. /shrug

Im sure we do.
Btw, why don't you REVEAL your second, well hidden enf then, hm?
Untill you do, i believe your pvp experience consists of....well...not much .

Don't worry, our NR will get nerfed so bad that more than soldiers will be able to have their way with enfos because enfos need more nemesis professions, as long as they are the professions Koizumi plays.

And posts like this only confirm of how blind you are in your rage against anything that nerfs enforcers.
If id like a nerf that would ONLY help my professions i sure as hell wouldnt suggest NR nerf, much rather a total stun removal which harms me quite alot too.
But as you could (but apparently didnt want to) read, i suggested NR nerf which helps ALL casting professions, NOT only me.

[Moonbolt]

u just claimed tha tenforcers had 0 nemesis and then u go admit to 2 nemesis urself so i dont realy see why i should stop posting ur aperantly trollingl.
and wow since i didnt care enough to look 1 thing up abou how stuns work since i usually just FM out of them on my trader i dont know how AO pvp works?
ur reasoning is flaved.
and yeh i do know that MoR gives 100% stun/root resist not removes stuns i used it as an example of avoiding stuns but if u like to nitpik on words thats up to u.
as i said ur reasoning is either flawed or ur just scewing words to fit ur argument when u lack real arguments.

[Koizumi]

Dont hope for too much tho, while i actually dont mind upping unRaged enf, i never actually posted an amount of lock that id like to see on rage, but i assure you, id like it to be quite long!

u just claimed tha tenforcers had 0 nemesis and then u go admit to 2 nemesis urself

Learn to read:
Wow, soldiers, ONE prof that actually does something to you!
There's a sh**load of a way between "a profession that actually does something to enf" and "a profession that has the tools to literally wipe the floor with enfs"...

and wow since i didnt care enough to look 1 thing up abou how stuns work since i usually just FM out of them on my trader i dont know how AO pvp works?
ur reasoning is flaved.

A pvp'er that doesnt know such a basic thing, tells me much about your knowledge.
Just out of curiosity, how many other things did you "forget to check"?

u lack real arguments.

That desc fits you and Obtena ten times better.

[Obtena]

What you believe and what is reality aren't the same though, so again, simple thinking = simple trolling. Funny that ... the same goes with your suggestion on nerfing NR for enfos to make up for a deficiency in your PVP.

Rage cooldown is about 8 - 15 seconds ... it's in that balancing information we keep talking about. You should have a look. Good irony of accusing Moon of not knowing details when you know so little yourself.

[Djantro]

My question about agent was about killing em without stuns at all since you got a 8 sec time window to drop em after they CHed. 8 seconds is quite long.

Also, chill out peeps

[Moonbolt]

a good agent can survive that Dj..
ive had it happen alot.
specially if the agent times stun perks or snare perks with kiting to interrrupt the alpha.
most agents in a BS environment doesnt have enough gear to live thru it.... thats true but u cant base a balance on that fact since then we would never ever be able to kill top end geared agents.

[Obtena]

Best person to ask about killing an agent with an enfo, or vice versa is Kink. Agents have alot of effective HP, alot more than enfos do. Honestly, no stuns, I think that's a hard sell to kill docs and agents with. I have bashed on people while they were feared though, so you could try timing that midway through your alpha.