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Thread: Trader drains Please fix

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Koizumi View Post
    150 trader....ahem...
    what's your point? that's the level range we're talking about. do YOU have one in the level range we're talking about?
    AO: ▐ Renamed 220/30 adv▐ Giit 200/30 NT game over setup▐ Somethiing 199/21 Confused Sold▐ Sixunder 158/21 tard ▐ Eightup 150/20 flex▐ Giitjiit 57/6 NT▐
    FFXIV: Giit Paradisian - 50 CNJ/White Mage - Hyperion server
    .....................................

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Frubaliscious View Post
    get your own!

    I have a trader, I know how OP they are, k
    You wanna know the truth about trader, we don't live on draining people, we live on people's tears when they get drained and start to complain.

    Stop whining ffs.

    PS: I don't care if drains get lvl locked, but this is pretty much the end of twinking for trader,and if the trader's twinking possibilities fall, other profs are most likely to follow.

    Bise.

  3. #43
    Your argument for traders being OP is invalid due to your inability to see past PvP, but since you brought it up...

    Traders in PvP, endgame 220, arent OP and in fact very hard to play to great effect. The few times your able to chain drain someone are rare. When it does happen the first thing you get is hate tells, forum posts like this, and a general sense of it being worth playing a trader even if 90% of the time your in respawn.

    Mind you to gear up at 220 so well as a trader is a feat all its own. Being one of the least loved for endgame activities you have to have friends that dont mine you coming along.

    So next time a trader "owns" you in PvP instead of "/tell hate hate" try "/tell gratz" and move on with your gaming life.
    Deadly Whispers member since 2005
    Deadly Whispers President since 2010

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  4. #44
    why would anyone roll a trader for pvm? ofc I mean pvp, that's what were talking about o, forget it, lol, not even sure how I got into this older than dirt argument >< later.
    AO: ▐ Renamed 220/30 adv▐ Giit 200/30 NT game over setup▐ Somethiing 199/21 Confused Sold▐ Sixunder 158/21 tard ▐ Eightup 150/20 flex▐ Giitjiit 57/6 NT▐
    FFXIV: Giit Paradisian - 50 CNJ/White Mage - Hyperion server
    .....................................

  5. #45
    Considering the change in how debuffing perks works I would be amazed if drains last longer than 30s-45s on target after rebalance ^^
    General of Horizon. Member of Unity. Frequent visitor of Free Spirits and The Last Element.

    Nave [ 220 Solitus Fixer ] Qien [ 220 Solitus Engineer ] Navezero [ 200 Solitus Soldier ]
    Rafeg
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Wherever did I say that AimedShot was also part of our profession description, or support it as a facet of the Trader toolset?
    FC did, thats what counts.

    But my point is the class descriptions are pointless because they are super old and they don't really cover much. So there would be zero point in referring to them as you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Getting back to drains - I understand how strong our drains are, and perhaps their duration is rather extreme, but you have to understand that's what our profession is all about. We're subpar performers undrained, but once we get our engine going we're built to fight until someone catches us offguard. Are there problems with our toolset? I won't say they aren't, but I'm not willing to see our drains get neutered just because it does the job.
    I don't call for them to be neutered. But having your attack rating go into negatives at tl3 and tl4 and from 1500 to 500 at tl5 in a short period of time with virtually no chance of resisting is just stupid.

    The drains need to be level locked and perhaps adjusted a little as well(imo).
    Last edited by Noobius76; Jul 28th, 2010 at 16:52:10.

  7. #47

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Frubaliscious View Post
    why would anyone roll a trader for pvm? ofc I mean pvp, that's what were talking about o, forget it, lol, not even sure how I got into this older than dirt argument >< later.
    I did that!

    Because, back in the days, on my old NT (before SL) I once met a trader that was kind enough to chain cast the 132 team wrangle during a whole mission, and it was just awesome.

    I love being a support team member, a guys that is "CREDIT TO TEAM" (but wasn't really impressed by the engineer toolset )

    But the trader had an amazing toolset for every PvM encounter! Well that was on paper.
    Turns out, that toolset is not that powerful, can be handy, but bringing a good DD instead of us gives almost the same advantages.


    I still hope that the trader toolset gets some love at the rebalancing.

    Our toolset involving our buffs and debuffs in a few words:

    We give skills > useless in PvM, as people are most of the time always over the MBS (but MAs <3)

    We give nano > quite useful actually on enforcers (they love to call me their littles nano whore, take that NTs, I'm their new bottom bitch); but doc and others are like meh. Good for the buffing time.

    We give health > (and nano via yeeiyf) > good (this + the Not gives and insane nano regen and makes enforcers quite horny for you)

    We give Armor > meh

    We drain people's AR > quite meh in PvM actually at the amount of AR is quite low compared the amount of skills in pvp, but always handy in soloing.

    We drain armor > handy in PvM when it works, and please, pretty please, fix the last drain armor to be useful.

    We drain NR > quite useful again, but far far from mandatory

    We drain nano > I remember draining all the nano from one of the inferno key 's boss, but he kept nuking... (even as I was keeping him dry).

    We drain reflects > BR works now in PvM (intented?) and can be a little handy, and has a short duration (but you gotta love the +30% reflect you can get at Beast :P )

    We heal people > via perks and nanos, yeah that can be handy.

    We boost people damage (while we get killed) > I find sacrifice (and purple heart) to be quite a crappy perk, okay the boost is insane, but I will never use that in a boss fight (except at Tarasque because of her gimpness) because that would get me killed.
    Just remove the Health debuff and the defense buff but keep the offense debuff, so we can actually start using them in fight (and remove the massive taunt from it).

    We root and mezz > this is quite useful

    We lend nano you are welcome little smurfs.

    We can also boost some of your trade skills.
    We can also give you +2 in all abilities.

    Yep, our toolset seems AWESOME, but nowadays most of what our toolset is based on is not a problem anymore: nano regen, getting a real DD instead of us gives a better damage boost (or a close one), NR is not a big deal in PvM, just annoying but easy to get over and so on.

    Give our toolset some luv! (and free us from the infamous AS!)

    PS: Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake.

  8. #48
    well, trader is like adv in pvm imo...it can do a LOT, but can't do anything that some other prof can do better. and yeah, before you reach your weapons MBS, that team wrangle is kick ass, I remember loving that and looking forward to any time I teamed with a trader.
    AO: ▐ Renamed 220/30 adv▐ Giit 200/30 NT game over setup▐ Somethiing 199/21 Confused Sold▐ Sixunder 158/21 tard ▐ Eightup 150/20 flex▐ Giitjiit 57/6 NT▐
    FFXIV: Giit Paradisian - 50 CNJ/White Mage - Hyperion server
    .....................................

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    FC did, thats what counts.

    But my point is the class descriptions are pointless because they are super old and they don't really cover much. So there would be zero point in referring to them as you did.



    I don't call for them to be neutered. But having your attack rating go, into negatives at tl3 and tl4 and from 1500 to 500 at tl5 in a short period of time with virtually no chance of resisting is just stupid.

    The drains need to be level locked and perhaps adjusted a little as well(imo).
    As a trader, I really think that AimedShot is NOT a part of our profession.
    RP wise we are traders not some marksmans, we might have a lot of instinct, the kind that would land you a few lucky shots (ie: crits) and make some hillbillies pay the price of a Yalm for a Kodaik.

    AS hints for a skilled shooter, and a rifle and a big range to go with (AO wise, AS was always linked to rifles or bows).

    We are not a skilled shooter, our instinct makes up for the crits not for the aiming skill.
    Last edited by Agreement; Jul 28th, 2010 at 20:14:06.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Agreement View Post
    As a trader, I really think that AimedShot is NOT a part of our profession.
    RP wise we are traders not some marksmans, we might have a lot of instinct, the kind that would land you a few lucky shots (ie: crits) and make some hillbillies pay the price of a Yalm for a Kodaik.

    AS hints for a skilled shooter, and a rifle and a big range to go with (AO wise, AS was always liked to Rifles or bows).

    We are not a skilled shooter, our instinct makes up for the crits not for the aiming skill.
    I gotta agree with this.
    We had AS only because we lack of real decent stable damage.
    For me, AS never felt like sth associated with traders.
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
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    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  11. #51
    you might wanna check the solutions already proposed in this thread :
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=570554

    some people proposed a % of target skill debuff, some others went with shorter duration, we also had greater nanocost, OSB forbidding, red/blue line locking each other, separation of a line for nanoskills and another for ranged/melee skills ... but all those ways didn't convince me.
    the best solution i could come up with was no change in PVM, but a maximum version of both line allowed according to PVP target level or title (so whatever version the trader can cast on you, you will not receive more than a certain amount of debuffing).

    ps : in HL PVP you might ask revision so the AAO debuff stops being applied in nanite versions as for all previous.
    Last edited by bitnykk; Jul 31st, 2010 at 13:28:50.
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Frubaliscious View Post
    why would anyone roll a trader for pvm? ofc I mean pvp, that's what were talking about o, forget it, lol, not even sure how I got into this older than dirt argument >< later.
    i have a 220 enf 220 trader and 219 shade...
    and a bunch of Tl 5s.
    trader is by far the most fun profession to play in pvm cause its so diversive.

    and yeha i rolled my trader cause i wanted to have a ranegd pvp toon and its realy fun to pvp on aswell.
    but traders are in no means OP and they often get called before the docs tbh.
    just acuse they are leeches that cripple u if u let them be to long.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  13. #53

    Talking

    Maybe try picking your opponents better

    I have a 220 Trader and I don't really PvP with him, when I do it it can either be a lot of fun or very frustrating cause contrary to what the newspapers say, traders are actually pretty damn gimp compared to other professions (yeah, I know, I perfected the art of having really gimpy toons, but they are my gimps and I love all of them )

    So all I ask is before you go on another demanding spree to get another profession's nanos fixed, maybe roll one and level one, then you will see it is not just all plunder, divest, AS, moonlight and roses - some traders make it look way easier than what it is. Why fix something that is not broken? Just because something may seem OP at TL5, doesn't mean the same still applies at TL6 & TL7.

    And yeah, I know, getting killed over and over again by the same person in BS is not fun, but hey, not their fault they have better phatz or know their toolset better than me or anybody else that is in the same boat. There will always be a top dog and an underdog, you get killed by the trader, but when you run around the corner and kill the Doc/MP/NT/Shade/MA/Crat/Enfo/Engy/Advy/Fixer with your FA/Bursts do they have to ask for a FA/burst nerf too then?

  14. #54
    traders are obnoxious at all stages of the game. that is not to say that they are overpowered or underpowered or anything except for extremely bloody annoying.

    consider that:
    people who roll trader know this, because everyone knows this and those people are part of everyone.
    therefore people who play a trader play it to be obnoxious.

    the issue here is that you have a set of players who want to be obnoxious and a set of players who are sick of dealing with the former.

    it is unsolvable! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    No Atrox Allowed!
    Straes ::::::: 220/30 NT?! :::::::::::: saving the day 24/7. YOU'RE WELCOME!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah
    Trader alpha: Landing any nano then taking as long as you possibly want and/or feel like to kill people with regulars.

  15. #55
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Koizumi View Post
    Seen way too many ppl pox my trader some time ago when i pvp'ed on tl5 BS.
    *writ3s sumtin ev0l about 3 ai lvls and a med suit*
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  16. #56
    I took some time from the boards and did some more research, some more testing to see if I could find a way around the traders (at the same time, finishing my 150 soldiers gear). As it stands, my 150 soldier's in a setup that allows for enough assault rifle skill to swap from my AS gun to SPB while double drained, in total, 1803 ar (missing 1 ai level for 9 more and one more proc which when fired off will put me at 1824 ar). I dueled a trader friend of mine roughly 11 times. Each time the outcome the same, I lose drastically. Everyone says to alpha the trader before it can get you, well this is how I did it: Started with as gun, and had it swapping when duel started I as'd, bursted, and FA'd all at once while spamming all my perks. Not only did this get him to 25% but once it was finished I was spent and there was nothing else I could do as his heals heal roughly one full bar of his hp and I was full drained to have a whopping 650ish AR (I found out later from a better trader that on top of that he could have gotten his alb wen wen for 1 special absorb and 1 normal attack absorb shield if he wanted to). I tried this strategy 5 times, then switched to trying to resist the nanos because everyone says that's the other way to beat them. with NR maxed and as much as I could get and in full D, drain landed every time.Thinking there had to be a way to beat him, I tried the "jump out of nowhere and alpha him" strategy that everyone says. Hid at start, popped out and got off almost all of my alpha, but I realized that even while not drained, I couldn't perk him with all my perks. Most traders say that you can't just be good in bad gear. However, when I inspected him, he had on almost an entire set of the Dark ruins armor and under 2k aliens killed and while it's good, dark ruins armor is by no means a TL 5 twink armor (at least not an entire set). My soldier is in the best gear I can get on as a soli soldier and I get taken out like a chump by a trader in almost nothing.

    Can someone tell me how it's fair that I can put all the effort and time into my toon, learn all the strategies and be pretty good with them (soldier has been my main for 6 yrs and I retired him because of traders) and still not be able to even stand a chance against even the worst of traders? The only trader I've ever beaten was a leveling trader in full pred armor and even then I almost lost (I had a little over 25% left and all my perks spent). I would be willing to respect them more if traders didn't deny that they are in fact overpowered all the time. TL 7, yeah, that's a little different as a soldier can get over 3800 AR, but at TL 5 where the most AR I've ever heard of anyone getting is 2400, -1200 AR cuts it down to laughable AR.

    Everyone says to not judge a trader that beats you unless you yourself has one, but I really don't want to roll a trader, they aren't my cup of tea. I understand where you're coming from and I myself have used the same card on my posts. However, I don't believe that I've been unfair in the things that I've stated. I've tried to be as reasonable as possible with out whining. I'm not asking that drains be taken out and all that, I just think that there should be a fix with them. Again, I know that I don't have a trader so I don't know first hand, however I don't think that my reasons for asking this are invalid and I don't think they should be ignored based off the fact I don't have a trader when I've done all this to try and justify them having them this powerful to myself.

  17. #57
    errr u should start off with FA / burst then swap to AS and AS him down.. not the other wya around.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  18. #58
    this is actually not true because once you finish doing your inital attacks (Fa burst, AS) you want to be able to start doing more regular shot damage+ having assault rifle equipped gives you more AR to perk the trader with

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Captian View Post
    I took some time from the boards and did some more research, some more testing to see if I could find a way around the traders (at the same time, finishing my 150 soldiers gear). As it stands, my 150 soldier's in a setup that allows for enough assault rifle skill to swap from my AS gun to SPB while double drained, in total, 1803 ar (missing 1 ai level for 9 more and one more proc which when fired off will put me at 1824 ar). I dueled a trader friend of mine roughly 11 times. Each time the outcome the same, I lose drastically. Everyone says to alpha the trader before it can get you, well this is how I did it: Started with as gun, and had it swapping when duel started I as'd, bursted, and FA'd all at once while spamming all my perks. Not only did this get him to 25% but once it was finished I was spent and there was nothing else I could do as his heals heal roughly one full bar of his hp and I was full drained to have a whopping 650ish AR (I found out later from a better trader that on top of that he could have gotten his alb wen wen for 1 special absorb and 1 normal attack absorb shield if he wanted to). I tried this strategy 5 times, then switched to trying to resist the nanos because everyone says that's the other way to beat them. with NR maxed and as much as I could get and in full D, drain landed every time.Thinking there had to be a way to beat him, I tried the "jump out of nowhere and alpha him" strategy that everyone says. Hid at start, popped out and got off almost all of my alpha, but I realized that even while not drained, I couldn't perk him with all my perks. Most traders say that you can't just be good in bad gear. However, when I inspected him, he had on almost an entire set of the Dark ruins armor and under 2k aliens killed and while it's good, dark ruins armor is by no means a TL 5 twink armor (at least not an entire set). My soldier is in the best gear I can get on as a soli soldier and I get taken out like a chump by a trader in almost nothing.

    Can someone tell me how it's fair that I can put all the effort and time into my toon, learn all the strategies and be pretty good with them (soldier has been my main for 6 yrs and I retired him because of traders) and still not be able to even stand a chance against even the worst of traders? The only trader I've ever beaten was a leveling trader in full pred armor and even then I almost lost (I had a little over 25% left and all my perks spent). I would be willing to respect them more if traders didn't deny that they are in fact overpowered all the time. TL 7, yeah, that's a little different as a soldier can get over 3800 AR, but at TL 5 where the most AR I've ever heard of anyone getting is 2400, -1200 AR cuts it down to laughable AR.

    Everyone says to not judge a trader that beats you unless you yourself has one, but I really don't want to roll a trader, they aren't my cup of tea. I understand where you're coming from and I myself have used the same card on my posts. However, I don't believe that I've been unfair in the things that I've stated. I've tried to be as reasonable as possible with out whining. I'm not asking that drains be taken out and all that, I just think that there should be a fix with them. Again, I know that I don't have a trader so I don't know first hand, however I don't think that my reasons for asking this are invalid and I don't think they should be ignored based off the fact I don't have a trader when I've done all this to try and justify them having them this powerful to myself.
    First of all. Saying that we are overpowered contradicts the fact, that the best of us get killed all the time. 170 agent/advy/enfo can kill me so easily if played right, that it makes me laugh. Traders are not overpowered, they are just annoying. Well played trader can make your life miserable.

    Ok here is tl5 trader speaking. If you are on rk2, I can duel you anytime to show you how things work against good traders.

    As a soldier (trader is supposed to be your nemesis in a way afterall), you have basically two options. You alpha the trader very fast or you perk NR. TL5 trader has around 5-6k hp. Thats not much.

    If we don't land drains on you, we are dead. Its that simple. Either you don't have enough NR or you were very unlucky.

    I have never lost a duel against soldier, but that is not because we are OP. That is because I have encountered only 1 good soldier (Haii - nowadays tl7). You gotta seriously push that alpha if you want to beat a good trader.
    /Jekonam | 220 ma
    /Jekoslap | 220 crat
    /Jekoblack | 220 sold
    /Jekoblastah | 164 trader
    /Jekolandsubt | 158 doc
    /Jeko | 150 fixer
    /Jekonuke | 150 nt

  20. #60
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Hmmm, i wouldnt call dueling a trader easy. From my point of view as a 170 enf its all decided in first second of a duel. If this silly LE nano that takes out everything lands in a first try im just dead most of the time as it is followed by a drain that just lands. Therefore i dont duel traders anymore as i find it boring. The main problem are drains in mass pvp. They just land way to often for a predrained trader and once they land they make most professions useless, they cant be removed, they are spammable etc. basicly once it lands its game over. And dont say "get more nr" as its just impossible to have enough NR at lower levels.

    Altho i must admit im not the best at playing enf
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

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