and because its such a cookie cutter "no penalty at all" setup everyone does?Originally Posted by Captian
and because its such a cookie cutter "no penalty at all" setup everyone does?
There really wasn't any penalty for going NR 8, she easily took down my soldier and my shade. The fact of the matter is, advy's just have far too many of the super powerful defenses that other profs require to be an good. MA's/fixers need dof/limber, enfos/keepers need coon/BR, docs/agents need heals. The advy however has them all and then some. I'm not saying that they are unkillable, however the only people that can really kill a good advy is a better advy or a really good ganker.
Consider (if they weren't NR 8) that a pvp advy has under 10k hp, slobber is instant and can be done every 25 secs for 3k-3.2k hp heal, Bol heals for 2.5k-3.5k HP, BR heals 500 for 29 ticks, bio rejuv heals for 800-1450 hp, decent HD, Awakening for 4k-4.5k every 105 secs, Devour (heals 75% of the damage done with it), Dof/limber, bio cocoon, 160 damage shield, 390 absorb shield, nearly unrootable/unsnareable.
Now consider if you're NR8, not only can you not be hit aside from as, sa, dimach, but now you are completely unrootable, unsnareable, unnukeable, undebuffable and you have most of the heals you had when you weren't. There's no real penalty for going NR 8 like there is for everyone else.
I stand by what I say, Take away a lot of their heal perks or one of their defences: coon or acrobat perks
Ah, yes, so you're telling me that an adv with jepp and/or craphander had the same offense as a shield MP? hahah funny.
i completely agree with OP.
it's not a complain, i'm over it : when i cross an advy i now just run elsewhere except if its' half dead already, or if my alpha lands meaning it's prolly perkable and i might have a chance to kill.
otherwise i perfectly know i won't be able to get past coon/br + DD enough to beat CHing. i also know it's impossible to root/snare and very hard to debuff -except for mp/nt/trad/doc.
to finish with, as a decent fixer (over 3K AR self) i strangely barely land decent AS/FA on an average advy while its 11 sec AS makes me easily down below 50% HP left even with evades up.
i've already seen, several times, 4-5 (non-naab) people having hard time to kill some lone advys in war (no name needed) ; if legit or not, idk but i suspect this particular profession needs balancing anyways.
lemme clear : i got no problemo to be killable by advies, but it seems this profession has no weak point, and very few danger class out of nts (but who isn't in danger with nts except NR shades ?).
i think making bio & acro lines impossible to perk simultaneously would rock (e.g. every level of each requiring "must no have level 1" perked in the other). hope that would be sufficient to rebalance, though.
Last edited by bitnykk; Aug 6th, 2010 at 15:06:36.
ranged ones, the non-troxier the better
if not drained, nsd(-proc)'d, nanosucked, stunned, red dusk interrupted (@bol, @full def), or killed while casting under ubt(et al) (or at nr8 at all)
http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=215599
recharge 5min, slow heal, not for infight. more like a slow ch when escaping and debuffed
recharge 30sec
who has'nt?
yes every 105 sec
a few points every 45 sec, only in wolf form (which is hard to cast with -8000 nanoskills @nr8)
yes these are strong, you are right. but THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS ON, they have a recharge and are nerfed both by as and sa.
the absorb refreshes only every 120sec, the shield only affects low hp setups.
yes, my favorite. adv have 2 nanos that provide resistance, other than that there is a perkline, spacial displacement, that add a decent amount of resistance on top... but you actually HAVE to perk it. 10 perks in a line which gives no other benefit as root/snare resistance.
you may also "pimp" your ncu with IS mems, at the expense of a few % crit resistance ofc.
now dont get me wrong - i understand your arguments on hard-to-kill adv's in 1v1, but fc's intention was never to balance 1v1 duels and in bs every refresh i mentioned above is a serious time where a specific action is simply not available.
even worse fc empowers stone-paper-scissor setups where one profession (with absolutely endgame gear) will nearly always be on top of another... for example my old shen doc vs trader.... just dont ask (*cries* nerf gth), my old doc vs enfo... i won by boring him to death with my healing (*cries* nerf healing) though i tried to malp him "fast" down which didnt land (*cries* nerf enfs)... and so on.
when you sold and shade got beaten by a adv thats because the adv is good an you suck, you pressed the wrong keys at the wrong time or your professions are not intended to win 1 vs 1 against a specifically geared adv, or a mixture of all that.
in the end the only balanced player-skill based pvp i've met so far was in q3a and the like, definitively NOT in ao.
noob question : what prof(s) is (are) the ranged advi' "nemesis enemy" ?
// Break time //
/\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
Froob for 3 years :
Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.
Sloob since 2009 :
Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...
Lemme explain something to you, those things may not be all that much by themself. BUT YOU HAVE THEM ALL.
Yeah and the overpowered profs with their age old silly old argument, "oh, just bring a friend if you wanna kill me" lol okay right, then my friend, you shouldn't be able to kill anything on your own if you want to keep that incredible amount of defense.
Ranged advs either need a massive nerf to their defense or to their offense.
i can usually kill ranged advies on my enf... unless BtP stun bugs or i lag or something... melee advs is anotehr story tho since they got to much HP to alpha with a MR gank.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
Engineer. It still takes forever to kill one but the only advies I have trouble with are the melee ones. Or maybe because once the AS pistol came around all the crap advies came out of the woodwork while the few good ones stayed melee.
Waiting for a cure.
This isn't an argument, because everyone's perk toolset goes into recharge.
1.) If you don't have either Limber or DoF up ALL the time, you are a noob and are clearly demonstrating the point that they are OP as you have actually done "well".
2.) To say that I suck as a soldier or shade, It's up to you, I'm not gonna say that I am great or bad. However, I will say, that my knowledge when it comes to soldier V advy and shade V advy is pretty good as my brother (220 advy) and one of my best friends (220 advy) and I have dueled countless times. Both of which using very different tactics. I know how to fight them, and I've beaten a few of them, but when you can have a prof that can evade 2/3 big attacks, evade all my perks and absorb/heal the hits that do get through, there's something wrong.
Shade I can accept that they are just not meant to beat advys, they are low AR and completely perk reliant, I can accept that. However, soldier should be the bane of an advy as they are high AR and big alpha's that eat absorbs, but even endgame soldiers are a joke compared to endgame advys.
Btw, just to clear up a couple things that you are clearly miss informed about:
In regards to the HP (I believe is what you were saying this about)-
ranged ones, the non-troxier the better: Melee ones too, they use full CC which has no HP mods NOT CM and they don't IP body dev
You also act like the timers on your huge heal perks (like awakening for example) are large: they truly aren't and they heal for a substantial amount more than most profs.
You don't have to cap SD for it to make you almost invulnerable to roots/snares
there's a lot of bad information in this thread. consider researching your claims before posting please.
AO: ▐ Renamed 220/30 adv▐ Giit 200/30 NT game over setup▐ Somethiing 199/21 Confused Sold▐ Sixunder 158/21 tard ▐ Eightup 150/20 flex▐ Giitjiit 57/6 NT▐
FFXIV: Giit Paradisian - 50 CNJ/White Mage - Hyperion server
.....................................
Acrobat+strong heals is strong enough that bio shielding is not even necessary as a perk option. Going from nearly impossible to kill to almost impossible kill is not a big leap but most adventurers still like to rely on that 10k absorb.
Fact is, even if you nerf adventurer's from using bio shielding and acrobat together, adventurers will still have too much defense and survival at 220. Best way to nerf "us" would be nano-cost on the heals and possibly CC tools that can actually work on a 220 adventurer.
Except AR shades can perk advies on limber.
Let's recap what we've learned so far:
orly?
Stop sensationalizing. Seriously.
And apparently so can enfos. Engis and NTs also kill advys. Yep, unkillable for sure.
Not saying advys don't need toned down btw, but the epic drama queen whining is through the roof.
Last edited by Kopecz; Aug 7th, 2010 at 05:26:50.
1.) Your missquoting made your entire 1st half of the 2nd section completely moot. Notice that I said "Consider (if they weren't NR 8) that a pvp advy has under 10k hp" that means NOT NR 8. Read before posting on things no one was arguing against.
2.) You're right, you can't have motherwolf and regular wolf SELF BUFFED, but you can have someone else cast it on you. Aside from that, you really don't need motherwolf or regular wolf, yes it helps, but it's not a necessity to be able to avoid attacks.
3.) As far as AR shades being able to perk advys, this is true to an extent. If they are NR 8 then yes, MR shades with ar setup will be able to perk them. If not perked NR 8, even if they are perked by a shade, most advys can live through enough of a shades alpha to kill the shade first. If you're AR setup, you lose roughly 500 evades as a shade with no means of healing to live through your initial alpha.
BTW, if you're NR 8, you're not gonna get hit with roots/snares unless it's a crat proc that would land on you even if you were SD 10. Good try though. (NR8 gives over 100% root snare resist as well as 20k NR)
agree with OP,
Advs are the most overpowerd prof in ao for years and Fc just wont listen. In hands of veteran players with big resources it gets to point when they get bored of it.
Funny or sad to see advs complain about anything. Since there is little to none room for improvments.
Its shocking if you spend time with other prof then switch to adv its jaw dropping to see his tool set. My fav is calming other ppls pets or mobs and fastest run speed in game but list can go on.
I know afew ppl who took break or quit when they give that "Temporary fix" AS pistol+def check on pistol perks and let advs to have it .
To Mostadio engi :
You wont kill good vet ranged adv with engi unless they are new or watching tv, reading book or afk and simply choose to stay around you.
Nope, but I played a ranged Advy for 5 and a half years. Long before the AS pistol abortion.
Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
The main error FC did was to give Ranged Advies a AS pistol instead of a more reliable FA pistol, i pointed this out but they wouldn't listen because they didnt want to give FA to more profs then Soldier and Fixer... Personally i think it would have made more sense with 3 main AS professions (Agent, MP, Trader) and 3 main FA professions (Soldier, Fixer, Advy). Add upon that the fact that ranged advys wanted a FA pistol and not a AS pistol... Well it was kinda fully a FC screwup..
Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
Shades and enforcers perking an adventurer does not mean that adventurer will die. Engies and NT's are also the most likely to kill anyone who does not actually run away or kite, which adventurers do far better than most professions.
Common sense is stupid.
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