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Thread: Balancing Shade at TL 5

  1. #1

    Balancing Shade at TL 5

    Since FC is addressing some of the armor limitations of the shade profession in the upcoming balance I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents and toss out some ideas to make this profession more viable at TL5 in both PVM and PVP.

    1) Update "Piercing Mastery" line to include "Impale" at either 160 or at 170. This could go into either perk 6 or perk 7.

    2) We're all excited about the upcoming armor updates. I hope this includes neck, back and head items.

    3) Update database to allow Bloodlusts to drop in the level range between 121-250. Having this huge gap in the item drop rate is silly.

    4) Spirit Re-work. Alpha and Beta spirits were created to fix this in endgame, but at TL5 (and below) we need a fix as well. I realize this might be a nightmare to code, and perhaps it will cause additional problems with the current balancing. There have been various suggestions over the years, but I think it makes the most sense to completely remove or raise the level lock on all spirits by at least 20%.

    5) Significantly raise the run speed in "Faster then your Shadow". If we can't catch people we can't do anything. This is one of the biggest problems in PVP along with...

    6) A new nano line, perhaps using same skills as "Faster then your Shadow" that can operate as a debuff/snare/root remover like the fixer line "Wake-up Call". Perhaps this could be a team nano... "xxx Executes Shadow of the Guile into your NCU..."

    7) Sector 10 is currently not possible to solo without going nr2 even with all the nr items available to our profession. While having low NR is part of the balancing, being able to max out ~ 850 (without perking notum repulsor) is not sufficient at 150. Perhaps a small nano resist nano line or profession specific item could assist this issue.

    8) It will be interesting to see how the parry/riposte balance will affect our gameplay, I hope this is being figured into our tool set as well. While our primary defense is evades, during training mobs, or intense zergs we could really use a quick block (maybe we'll get healed!) before we go insta-splat.

    Means and crew, I am so happy about this armor situation and I am really looking forward to a fair balance to all professions.

    I hope everyone has some input, especially anyone who has rolled a shade and stopped for some reason. This profession attracts some of the most adamant twinkers, and is a completely different playstyle than any other profession.

    Flameshield up!
    Last edited by wooooot; Aug 6th, 2010 at 07:36:34.

  2. #2
    I do not agree with a faster ftys considering shade's will be getting a tokenboard.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  3. #3
    Being able to run in sneak would be a HUGE boost to shades at TL5, but unfortunately for agents as well.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    6) A new nano line, perhaps using same skills as "Faster then your Shadow" that can operate as a debuff/snare/root remover like the fixer line "Wake-up Call". Perhaps this could be a team nano... "xxx Executes Shadow of the Guile into your NCU..."
    why would shade care about team members?
    shade already has too many combat nanos.. we dont need/want any more
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by notcrattey View Post
    I do not agree with a faster ftys considering shade's will be getting a tokenboard.
    I personally don't have an issue with the current FTYS, and I would actually agree with this as token boards have a significant run buff on them.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Otinsainpas View Post
    shade already has too many combat nanos.. we dont need/want any more
    Care to name one other than SHD?
    Metalynx, hey, Metalynx!
    Is there any Smoked Reet left?

    "You ate it all already, didn't you?"
    Nyoro~n

  7. #7
    Shades, in general, need combined spirits for the lower TL. As to the process in which they are obtained and created is up for discussion. Combining spirits and improving /adding stats will address the issue with NR. Your argument that a shade needs to perk NR2 for solo game play in S10 is laughable. That place should be a place for teams period and not solo game play except the entrance. But other professions and hardcore twinks really ruin the team play environment and that is a separate issue all together.

    If you are thinking solely on TL5 than that tells me you are thinking only about one thing, pvp. TL5 shade pvp is fine gear wise. A shade twink will be able to equip a pretty decent setup without access to high QL bloodlusts. Even non twinks can.

    Shades do not have a problem with RS, its the problem with server sync and with access to token boards in the future shade RS will be on par/faster than most.

    I would like to see more ways for a shade to remove roots and snares. At TL7 its a fairly big sacrifice to get some, at lower levels its non-existent.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MachSchau View Post
    If you are thinking solely on TL5 than that tells me you are thinking only about one thing, pvp. TL5 shade pvp is fine gear wise. A shade twink will be able to equip a pretty decent setup without access to high QL bloodlusts. Even non twinks can.
    Gear doesn't mean much if you don't have the toolset to go with it.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NixBood View Post
    Care to name one other than SHD?
    what?
    there isnt any other, witch means i was referring SHD (as a castable combat nano) being too much for shades.
    Last edited by Otinsainpas; Aug 9th, 2010 at 06:31:43.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Otinsainpas View Post
    what?
    there isnt any other, witch means i was referring SHD (as a castable combat nano) being too much for shades.
    Meh i like SHD, if it were a 950 heal 950 dmg 5s recharge 0% checking perk it would be kewl too.

    But currently its our only heal and does quite nice dmg in pvp vs. high evaders.

    And its castable so u can cast while Q'ing perks on ppl u can perk.
    RK
    Roxburry 220/30/70 Cratz0r
    Roxbury 220/25/70 Shadez0r
    Bolrn 220/27/70 Mpz0r
    Arrow83 220/27/70 Solz0r

  11. #11
    This is based on my experience as a 174 Opi shade in BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    1) Update "Piercing Mastery" line to include "Impale" at either 160 or at 170. This could go into either perk 6 or perk 7.
    Would be nice, but lack of perks isn't an issue. We do plenty damage but sacrifice too much def to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    2) We're all excited about the upcoming armor updates. I hope this includes neck, back and head items.
    Bring on the 1k board! We don't really need more backs, already got 300 Ofab back, BSCOD and reani. Don't need head items, got AI helms, Pen Ofab helms and 300 Ofab Spec Helm.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    3) Update database to allow Bloodlusts to drop in the level range between 121-250. Having this huge gap in the item drop rate is silly.
    170ish can equip 250 bloodlusts without too much bother. But I see no problem with making lower ql ones available for 150-170s.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    4) Spirit Re-work. Alpha and Beta spirits were created to fix this in endgame, but at TL5 (and below) we need a fix as well. I realize this might be a nightmare to code, and perhaps it will cause additional problems with the current balancing. There have been various suggestions over the years, but I think it makes the most sense to completely remove or raise the level lock on all spirits by at least 20%.
    Combined def/off spirits are necessary at TL5. There is no viable "well rounded" setup. You have to go all out def or off with little room for compromise.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    5) Significantly raise the run speed in "Faster then your Shadow". If we can't catch people we can't do anything. This is one of the biggest problems in PVP along with...
    Not needed if we get 1k board as mentioned above!

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    6) A new nano line, perhaps using same skills as "Faster then your Shadow" that can operate as a debuff/snare/root remover like the fixer line "Wake-up Call". Perhaps this could be a team nano... "xxx Executes Shadow of the Guile into your NCU..."
    We can't be good at everything, not sure if we'll get any love with CC removal. But hey, would be nice to have ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    7) Sector 10 is currently not possible to solo without going nr2 even with all the nr items available to our profession. While having low NR is part of the balancing, being able to max out ~ 850 (without perking notum repulsor) is not sufficient at 150. Perhaps a small nano resist nano line or profession specific item could assist this issue.
    Agreed! With maxed light blue NR my shade still has terrible NR.

    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    8) It will be interesting to see how the parry/riposte balance will affect our gameplay, I hope this is being figured into our tool set as well. While our primary defense is evades, during training mobs, or intense zergs we could really use a quick block (maybe we'll get healed!) before we go insta-splat.
    Looking forward to these two being fixed, got the IP ready

    Not sure what FC's intention is for shades. Maybe they want us to be either full offence or full defence. Would be nice to know what the goal is!
    Manicmouse AR SMGs - 220/30 Clan Solitus Soldier - General of New Order
    Lawmaker Pistols - 220/30 Clan Atrox Bureaucrat | Sellyoursoul Shotgun - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Trader
    Adiee Pistols - 220/30 Clan Solitus Doctor | Boltcutter MA - 220/30 Clan Atrox Engineer | Anorexia - 220/30 Clan Nanomage Enforcer

    Lazy: the caste system of ao today is clan > omni > wildlife > neuts.

    Gatester: Crats have the best toolset for supporting a team in PVE.
    Aramsunat: WRONG! The team supports the crat if the crat is unable to solo (which is rare)!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NixBood View Post
    Care to name one other than SHD?
    Leaden Feet ?
    Forum rule #1 :
    If someone disagrees with you, he is obviously trolling, flamming, or a stupid n00b.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Molotoff View Post
    You also forgot all the Inexperiences and all the Incompetences and all the Diminish/Drains on the base abilities we cast too (relative to nanoskills, of course).

    So yes, shades do not need any more.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    You also forgot all the Inexperiences and all the Incompetences and all the Diminish/Drains on the base abilities we cast too (relative to nanoskills, of course).

    So yes, shades do not need any more.
    He wanted one, I gave him one.
    Forum rule #1 :
    If someone disagrees with you, he is obviously trolling, flamming, or a stupid n00b.

  15. #15
    I'm not saying you're wrong.

    I wouldn't mind extensions on our nanolines to give the lower TLs some help, but as it is, I'm fine with just SHD being the only combat nano we cast (apart from DR, which is target dependant). I wouldn't want any more.

    The general nanos don't exactly count. Unless someone is rocking a tl1/2/3 shade.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by notcrattey View Post
    I do not agree with a faster ftys considering shade's will be getting a tokenboard.
    It's simply not possible to catch anyone that has gsf (which is everyone edit: and those with rage) in bs. Couple this with our low nr and lack of cc removal option this creates a situation that is dismal at tl5.

    Sure a token board will help, but not very much to 'balance' to everyone else. Shade, fixer and ma all need increased run speed.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NixBood View Post
    Care to name one other than SHD?
    What does SHD have to do with TL5 shade?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wooooot View Post
    Sure a token board will help, but not very much to 'balance' to everyone else. Shade, fixer and ma all need increased run speed.
    I just caught this and think it's funny. Fixers have no issues in TL5 PVP for runspeed. At least for now.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I just caught this and think it's funny. Fixers have no issues in TL5 PVP for runspeed. At least for now.
    this thread isn't really about fixers... but I will say this. I can outrun any tl5 fixer on any of my advy / enfo / agent toons... fixer should be fastest toon and guess what... IT IS NOT.

    Perhaps you have an opinion on TL5 shade runspeed Obtena?

  20. #20
    imo shades need some more AR and perks on TL5, not much.
    On the other side enfos and agents could sure use some nerfage at TL5.
    --Clan "Howlin" Messiah



    Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah

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