TL5 PVP and melee runspeed issue

[Animistic]

This is something that requires attention and balancing badly. Being a melee prof at tl5, your life at BS consists of most of the time trying to run and catch your target. There are some cases even where its nearly impossible to catch that target at times, while you are likely to receive ASes and other hits from the kiter.

As an example could use 150 MA here. With 1k token board and good equip, should have around 1.2k runspeed. Now in comparison, 170 agent using mimic enforcer, can self with rage around 2k runspeed. There is no way for the MA to catch that agent, while the agent can run around in circles around the MA and drop those capping monster ASes every 11s (or 12s-13s if Cobra user). Root graft would stop such agent for only 1s until rage is hit. And current sync and short melee range would make getting in hitting range difficult even if the MA had gsf and agent didnt. Situation such as these don't really come up as exciting PVP challenge, but rather feels more like bad pvp/runspeed mechanics being rubbed on your face. Now ive heard about upcoming runspeed changes coming, but before we get there, i got few suggestions to fix current situation.

Of all the melee profs. Id say currently only Enforcers really do well in this area. Thanks to rage which makes only NTs roots count and gives enforcers large boost to runspeed. Advies are sort of okay, since they have +390 wolf always and decent root resist nanos along with ok NR combined with very effective defence.



Suggestion ideas:

1. Shades have Faster Than Your Shadow (+250rs), but even that could use perhaps +100 or +200 more added to it, since its just bad GSF substitute when fixer is not available. Perhaps some sort of root resist nano or remover also added.

2. Add some +300-400 runspeed buff to Keeper Evadeline. Maybe slightly improve Enervate Bindings

3. Raise MAs currently useless Velocity(+70rs) to 300 or 400. Im sure every MA would still rather prefer GSF with +790rs +79 evades, over selfbuffed +400rs +120 evade in mass pvp situation. MAs have 1 attack that currently helps with roots/snares Upon a Wave of Summer. But its only available once 110s. Could use maybe slightly shorter lock. To not make it too OP at TL7, that shorter lock could maybe only be applied up to QL 200. Effect of 3s snare on Target could also be raised for like 5s to 7s, to allow it to actually catch your opponent.

4. Raise range of melee weapons and ma fists with meter or two. Since sync issues still seem quite broken, this would be the next best way to "fix" em. Currently you can often run on top of your target visually, yet still not hit em.




All this is coming from someone whose Tl5 PVP twinks are: Agent(mimic enfo), Trader and Bureaucrat.

Out of those 3, only Crat really needs that strong Crowd Control toolset at Tl5 to really survive, since their toolset at Tl5 is otherwise overall very weak. Traders would be fine even without that very strong AOE root nano. And agents even more so even without their good single root nano or those two snare perks (other which is very easy to land on everyone).

ps. All of this is coming based on current situation, hard to tell what lies ahead in future, so not gonna speculate yet with that.

[Jekonam]

As an example could use 150 MA here. With 1k token board and good equip, should have around 1.2k runspeed.

I have 1500rs+ on tl5 trader selfed. MA has velocity, you should have much more.

Of all the melee profs. Id say currently only Enforcers really do well in this area. Thanks to rage which makes only NTs roots count and gives enforcers large boost to runspeed. Advies are sort of okay, since they have +390 wolf always and decent root resist nanos along with ok NR combined with very effective defence.

You should be complaining about enfos. Are you suggesting that ranged toons should have less rs than you just because you don't research the possibilities how to get more RS.

Suggestion ideas:

here we go

1. Shades have Faster Than Your Shadow (+250rs), but even that could use perhaps +100 or +200 more added to it, since its just bad GSF substitute when fixer is not available. Perhaps some sort of root resist nano or remover also added.

I lol'd.

2. Add some +300-400 runspeed buff to Keeper Evadeline. Maybe slightly improve Enervate Bindings

I lol'd very loud.

*WRRRUUUM 2k RS KIPPUUR IS GONNA PUNISH J00000"

3. Raise MAs currently useless Velocity(+70rs) to 300 or 400. Im sure every MA would still rather prefer GSF with +790rs +79 evades, over selfbuffed +400rs +120 evade in mass pvp situation. MAs have 1 attack that currently helps with roots/snares Upon a Wave of Summer. But its only available once 110s. Could use maybe slightly shorter lock. To not make it too OP at TL7, that shorter lock could maybe only be applied up to QL 200. Effect of 3s snare on Target could also be raised for like 5s to 7s, to allow it to actually catch your opponent.

Haha. This was a killer. 400rs. Dude. Seriously. Dunno what you are taking, but giev it to me!


Sum it up, you don't obviously know how to twink RS. Get rid of GSF @ tl5 BS and your problem is solved. Its the advies with calia's wolf and gsf running topping easily 2,6k RS that should be looked in to.

The side with GSF most likely wins the capping race. Thats how it is.

[Animistic]

Thanks for your highly contstuctive input of many "I lol'd".

Perhaps next time post one RickRolled video there too to ****e it up. Next.

[Jekonam]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have none that makes sense.

400rs for MA and keeper? You have no idea.

[Animistic]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have none that makes sense.

400rs for MA and keeper? You have no idea.

Those would be only for situations in which GSF isnt available to balance that cap between having it or not. Enfos already have +800 from rage. Advies already +390 from wolf. And those two are the top Melee profs pretty much, with MA as good 3rd (or better, if stand still duels).

Ja mitä tulee tohon "learn to twink" lässytykseen niin rollaapahan poika tooni tänne RK1:een niin saat isän kädestä.

[Jekonam]

Those would be only for situations in which GSF isnt available to balance that cap between having it or not. Enfos already have +800 from rage. Advies already +390 from wolf. And those two are the top Melee profs pretty much, with MA as good 3rd (or better, if stand still duels).

Real twinked MA will destroy pretty much anyone on standing duel (which is any sensible duel).

So in the end the problem is GSF, and not the runspeed of ranged professions. GSF does create inequalities between sides, but the RS of ranged professions is not significantly superior to melee professions at tl5.

Ja mitä tulee tohon "learn to twink" lässytykseen niin rollaapahan poika tooni tänne RK1:een niin saat isän kädestä.

Voi poika tuus sieltä kultalusikka kädessä vähä kattelee RK2 tl5 tolpalle niin näytän miten laitetaan suomipoika nöyräksi. Kyl nää kaverit on niin nähty. Täällä Rimorilla on sun kaltaisille oikein suomiorggikin. Mees rekrymaan sinne.

[Weltall]

Yep melee should have much higher RS but yeah it's the reason why I won't ever play a melee prof that's not an adv or enf at tl5, I toy around with oh so many keepers, shades, MAs on my agent that it's just stupid, hell I can even kite advs and enfs effectively in fp enf.

[Animistic]

Real twinked MA will destroy pretty much anyone on standing duel (which is any sensible duel).

So in the end the problem is GSF, and not the runspeed of ranged professions. GSF does create inequalities between sides, but the RS of ranged professions is not significantly superior to melee professions at tl5.

Finally some constructive words by you then that i can agree. But the topic is not about standing still duels. Its about certain melee profs being kited to death due their slowness in non-duel pvp situations.

And yes, GSF does give way too big edge over whoever has it, and whoever doesnt. What im suggesting here is mainly just trying to balance that huge gap.

And Weltall gave his example of this problem here:

Yep melee should have much higher RS but yeah it's the reason why I won't ever play a melee prof that's not an adv or enf at tl5, I toy around with oh so many keepers, shades, MAs on my agent that it's just stupid, hell I can even kite advs and enfs effectively in fp enf.

Similar experience on my own mimic enfo agent, and same with trader too with aoe root usage, and thats the reason behind making this thread.

[Frubaliscious]

seems like the problem is agents, not your run speed. something i think everyone can agree needs a huge phat "looking at".

anyways, try getting team run speed from fixer, it stacks with RI.

[Animistic]

seems like the problem is agents, not your run speed. something i think everyone can agree needs a huge phat "looking at".

anyways, try getting team run speed from fixer, it stacks with RI.

Dont think it matters to shade what prof it is, when trying to slowly remove some root off with free movement stims while being nuked/drained/ASed/pewpew'd from distance. So i think they need equally lub there with some sort of way to counter that.

MAs and kepplors are bit better off. But just tiny bit.

[Ciassene]

wait WHAT?! my 150 MA has 1600 RS selfed, I think I r sploting then (

[Jekonam]

wait WHAT?! my 150 MA has 1600 RS selfed, I think I r sploting then (

Cia I thought you quitted sploiting. We agreed to have a break from RS sploit ;(!

[Animistic]

wait WHAT?! my 150 MA has 1600 RS selfed, I think I r sploting then (

Cute that Jeko had to bring own org cheerleaders here on this thread to troll along with him. Anyways, that is possible, if you go in some carebear +runspeed setup. What i was refering with good setup with 1.2k rs, would be CC+ofab pants setup and notu.

Now if you push it, you could instead use inferior to notu +125 Gladiator robe, +100 wolf graft, +100 Ring of Haste instead of better rings and Slippers of Screaming for +60. Oh yeah, almost forgot, if you dont have Fist of the Dominator, then you get also 60-70 from L-wrist at loss of lot better implant.

So yeah, thanks for nitpicking on trivial small details, and totally missing the mainpoint of the thread. Atleast you bumped my thread so thank you come again.

[Ciassene]

that setup I have iirc

and Jeko is my cheerleader :P

[Vgman01]

I understand where your coming from dude, I really do but giving those classes those buffs would let them all hit the rs cap selfed at tl7 (my ma is in prety crap gear atm and is sporting 2k rs at 220) Im always for giving mele more rs but i think the problem here really is gsf in itself

[crattey]

Again, like most mele whine threads, a picture is being painted that in no way reflects reality. Not every ranged profession is an agent that can outrun you and cap AS every 11 seconds. Yet you take them as the template that you should be balanced against, thereby giving you a huge advantage over every profession that is not an agent.

Learn to twink your runspeed.
Realize that at lower levels, some professions are just stupidly powerful.
Stop suggesting silly buffs for one specific titlelevel, without considering for one second that these follow through to every other titlelevel as well, where they may be stupidly overpowered.

[Moonbolt]

So in the end the problem is GSF, and not the runspeed of ranged professions. GSF does create inequalities between sides, but the RS of ranged professions is not significantly superior to melee professions at tl5.

heh the problem isnt that the ranged doesnt have significantly superior runspeed then melee.. the main problem is that melee doesnt have significantly superior runspeed to ranged.

i dont know how many times i have said this in different threads... for a melee toon to have any chance in pvp he needs to have a way to close the gap between the ranged and the melee.
its just simple math.
and im quite astonished that FC realy never figured that one out.

[Animistic]

Again, like most mele whine threads, a picture is being painted that in no way reflects reality. Not every ranged profession is an agent that can outrun you and cap AS every 11 seconds. Yet you take them as the template that you should be balanced against, thereby giving you a huge advantage over every profession that is not an agent.

Yeah, adding +100 more runspeed to Shade would totally give them huge advantage over every profession that is not agent in Tl5. I can already see it before me, BS full of shades pwning everyone, with that extra +100 rs as they can finally reach their target before going splat.

Nothing overly overpowered is being suggested in this thread. It would be just weaker substitute (half of it or less) of GSF for couple slowpoke melee profs that only work if they can reach their opponents. And those certain profs are being rooted, snared, kited to oblivion currently. Neither would these even raise them in the same class as TL5 enfos are runspeed-wise, not even close. Just would bring em even with advies.

Learn to twink your runspeed.

Learn to make less assumptions of people you dont even know.

Realize that at lower levels, some professions are just stupidly powerful.

I think the point of these Balance Discussion forums are to discuss about these stupidly powerful profession to make the PVP bit more balanced. Im not asking here to nerf any prof either, just to give some runspeed lub to the slowpokes melee profs of tl5 in moderate amount.

Stop suggesting silly buffs for one specific titlelevel, without considering for one second that these follow through to every other titlelevel as well, where they may be stupidly overpowered.

I can see the issue here, so good you brought it up.

Perhaps buffs such as Velocity and Faster Than Your Shadow could be scaled with Title Levels. In TL5 there is serious need for some more runspeed. But if at TL7 things look more bright to these profs, then perhaps then lower it to its current form back over there. Seems perks atleast are gonna go through lot of similar scaling like that, so perhaps it could work also depending on Runspeed. Give less if target has over 2k RS already etc. Sounds perhaps bit complicated, but they are already planning similar when it comes to perks, so why not certain nanos too.

[Frubaliscious]

wait...don't shades get OUR token boards soon? isn't this alr fiixed with that mind?

[Jekonam]

This is hidden shade whine thread! I knew it.