Rage Solution? Professionals pls read.

[sdloner]

Here's an idea.
Everyone is crying about runspeed being removed from the Rage nanoline.
The runspeed added in this line is quite overpowered, but we've all become quite used to it. I for one use it on my 150 twink so I can get around quickly. In PVP I use it as a tool to run down anyone who tries to run away. The NR buff is quite nice, but is that really the only future use for this nanoline? Why not replace the whole line with a long NR buff then, ofcourse not!

My solution is simple. Greatly reduce the time it buffs your runspeed. Like 5 seconds, maybe less. This would allow us to catch up to our targets in PVP, would not completely prevent them from escaping. It would also be a good idea to put very small capped cast time, maybe 0.5-1.0 seconds. Without a cap you would still see enfs stopping to instacast as soon as the runspeed effect runs out. I could see that being in every way annoying and in no way fun.

It makes no sense that the Enforcer class should be the fastest. It is acceptable to say that we would be able to charge at our targets for a short time.

[Techtoxic]

Enforcers should be the slowest mofos from AO in my opinion not the fastest as they are now. They are heavy tanks not freaking speedy gonzales. Enf having more RS then fixer is rofl.

[bitnykk]

pls stop crying bout RS off rage, as SL essences had RS debuff off in exchange.

[Techtoxic]

pls stop crying bout RS off rage, as SL essences had RS debuff off in exchange.

Want to see that enforcer using sl ess in BS or NW. oh wait they dont. So QQ somewhere else

[Kinkstaah]

Enforcers should be the slowest mofos from AO in my opinion not the fastest as they are now. They are heavy tanks not freaking speedy gonzales. Enf having more RS then fixer is rofl.

It kind of isn't, as they're melee. In any other game, tanks have a plethora of tools to force people to stay in melee. FC have already said they have a plan for this, and if Enforcers get Charge, Intercept, Hamstring and (insert name of tools from other games) then it should be fine.

Being out of range as melee is LoL as you put it. No game designer in their right mind would consign a class to that. You may find that escaping an Enforcer is actually harder than it is now, because right now, with rage, at TL7, keeping up with people is more or less impossible if you're trying to chase down a skilled player.

As an Enforcer.

[crattey]

... and if Enforcers get Charge, Intercept, Hamstring and (insert name of tools from other games) then it should be fine.

You mean, if they become vulnerable to CC and don't have instant removal if once in a blue moon something manages to land then it should be fine..

[sultryvoltron]

You mean, if they become vulnerable to CC and don't have instant removal if once in a blue moon something manages to land then it should be fine..

Pretty much this. I was a tad disappointed that Rage kept the NR and lost runspeed instead of the other way around.

[Kinkstaah]

You mean, if they become vulnerable to CC and don't have instant removal if once in a blue moon something manages to land then it should be fine..

They dont, 10s lockout is surely not instant removal. That said, 10s root durations would mean that it almost doesnt matter either way.

But being unable to catch up at all, is the same as being rooted and out of range, 100% of the time.

That's absolutely unacceptable, for anyone.

[Moonbolt]

i dont get it... the runspeed ermoval on the rage is actually hte least problem enfs got atm.
so why do non enfs think that is what we are complaining about.
enfs has been promised some way of staying in range of their target so the runspeed nerf doesnt even realy matter unless FC makes a hughe fail in their new idea.
theres other stuff thats far crappier like loosing 30% absorb.
and the nerf of our alpha speed.
the nerf of our stuns.
the nerf of our alpha dmg.
not getting any way of mitigate more dmg as we have asked for.
no way of dealing any dmg at all after balance to evade profs.


u cant take away a professions ability to kill an opponent in pvp and not giving something in return.
enforcer can kill in 1 way atm. by landing a massive alpha on a toon.
that alpha is getting heavily nerfed in this rebalance.
and nothing was given as a substitute.
if enfs alpha is getting nerfed we need a sustained way of dealing dmg cuase regulars just isnt enough.
if enfs who already has one of the lowest defences in game gets our main form of defence (absorbs) nerfed, at teh same time as we get our only way of killing our target nerfed (alpha)
and our way to actually kill healers nerfed (stuns) and uor way to get away from the fight we cant win anyway nerfed (runspeed) then ur breaking the profession.
that is the concern for enfs atm.. not only the damn rage RS reduction.

[sultryvoltron]

i dont get it... the runspeed ermoval on the rage is actually hte least problem enfs got atm.
so why do non enfs think that is what we are complaining about.
enfs has been promised some way of staying in range of their target so the runspeed nerf doesnt even realy matter unless FC makes a hughe fail in their new idea.
theres other stuff thats far crappier like loosing 30% absorb.
and the nerf of our alpha speed.
the nerf of our stuns.
the nerf of our alpha dmg.
not getting any way of mitigate more dmg as we have asked for.
no way of dealing any dmg at all after balance to evade profs.


u cant take away a professions ability to kill an opponent in pvp and not giving something in return.
enforcer can kill in 1 way atm. by landing a massive alpha on a toon.
that alpha is getting heavily nerfed in this rebalance.
and nothing was given as a substitute.
if enfs alpha is getting nerfed we need a sustained way of dealing dmg cuase regulars just isnt enough.
if enfs who already has one of the lowest defences in game gets our main form of defence (absorbs) nerfed, at teh same time as we get our only way of killing our target nerfed (alpha)
and our way to actually kill healers nerfed (stuns) and uor way to get away from the fight we cant win anyway nerfed (runspeed) then ur breaking the profession.
that is the concern for enfs atm.. not only the damn rage RS reduction.

Where did stuns get nerfed? Where did you find out that Enfs won't be able to deal damage? Where can I read how Enfs defense is going to be sub-par against the future 2s perk executions and rehashed specials? Who said that Enfs will have all their ability to kill an opponent taken away? How do you know that you'll lose 30% absorbs? (I HIGHLY contest this. Not many Enfs run around spamming layers indefinitely when all they do is gank and run.) Please show me where you found out that Enfs will not be able to mitigate damage in PvP, or hell even PvM... How did you find out that the planned changed to perk executions away from hit or miss into a sort of % damage based on AR vs Evades were scrapped, giving Enfs no way to do damage to evaders?

I'll be waiting.

[Moonbolt]

first of all i know how enforcers work today.
the reason we are able to kill for example a doc today is that we got a fast executing alpha, that deals high dmg and involves atleast 1 stun.
when stun durations gets reduced to 2 and 3 seconds in pvp at the same time as the atack perks takes 2 seconds to excecute the stun will be more or less useless cause it wont fullfill the role it has atm of letting the target take dmg while unable to heal.
slowing down our alpha and decreasing its dmg is kinda scary for us cause its already realy close tha tthe top agents and docs can outlive the alpha by getting in a heal... it usually takes me 3 - 4 alpha tries vs a good doc before i can kill him.
and even u should be able to agree that enforcer regular hits doesnt realy scare anyone unless ur gimp.

absorbs well ofcourse we dont spam absorbs 100% of the time... for example not while chasing a kiter etc etc.
we wont be doin that after rebalance either.
we do tho spam absorbs when we stand still and fight. its our only way of mitigating dmg.
the absorbs we have the possibility to spam after rebalance with the proposed documents are about 50% of the absorbs we are able to spam atm over a minute.
take that we do have to stop spamming layers to refresh rage and Mongo HoT the effective absorbs we cast are only reduced with 30%.
the maths has been done by several enfs in different threads.

nothing has been said about specials except that AS will get an excecution time if not performed from stealth, and that it possible will beinterruptable by melee.
agents getting a secondary AS attack to make up for that loss.
and specials locking eachother out.
every damn ranged user will still have a damn 11 sec special that will cap on enfs so no i dont care much about the changes to specials.

since enforcers doesnt realy have alot of Healing / HP means that our effective healing is quite crappy since it takes us way longer to heal up 1 AS or perk then it for instance does a MP or fixer.
so the increase from 1 sec perk attacks to 2 sec perk attacks when excecuted vs an enforcer wont make any difference at all. it will make a hughe difference for healing professions like docs agents advs and MAs tho that will have an easier time getting off heals and will get more heals off during an alpha.

the planned % changes to perks based on AR vs evades... i dont know if they are scrapped or not but since nothing has been said about this forever and no info has been given on this i have no reason to take it into account.
i have to make assumptions based on the info we have gotten and the numbers that we have.
even kintaii has pointed out that that is the way to handle it by making some slightly homoerotic reference to lavendel shampoo :P

also since the already happened nerf of strafe running the problem with enfs hit and running is already fixed since if u get a GSF the enf cant outrun u anyway.

Enf basically asked for 4 things.

a reason to stick around and fight.
in increased dmg mitigation, nerfed alpha and increased sustained dmg was examples of how to do this.

more dmg mitigation. we are a tank class. we should take time and effort to bring down.

removal of NSD on challanger. since it is a nessecary buff to even come close to other combat profs AR.
w/o procs with challanger an enf has 3100-3200 AR wich is way to low for a combat profession well ratehr to low to justify the NSD on challanger.

a way to catch our enemies in pvp.
FC has said that they are working on some uniqe way of keeping us in range of our target.
so well have to wait and see what happens.
ive already thought about some possible problems with a reversed knockback vs high runspeed. or well some areas where its alot less effective. for example a ranged profession with higher RS will be able to kite all the time while the knockback is on CD and with for example fixers good healing/HP that actually even got a boost from ncreased healing on the short time HoTs and the fact that they are impossible to alpha wil just make them impossible to keep in range long enough to kill them.
or atleast thats 1 problem that has the possibility of happening.

4 combining of our wepon perks like for example soldiers got wepon mastery.
we somewhat got this in that they made 1 blunt and 1 endged buff but it was a minor change anyway.

[Sethic]

Everything is getting flippin' reworked.
Wait 'til they show all their cards and then decide to get your panties in a twist.

Who says you're gonna need your current alpha to kill a doc when they get their treatment? Who knows if evades won't get a chance so perks seldom do no damage at all? Who says ...
Funcom quite CLEARLY stated they wanted pvp to last longer. That's moving away from bigass alpha's. You can't compare the current documents with the current version of AO.

Really, stop overreacting like this. At least until you can see the entire picture. It's called a rebalance, they need to break it down to a common starting ground and build up from that.

[Moonbolt]

as kintaii himself said.. he wants feedback on the current changes. and im giving feedbakc on the changes we have seen so far. and it looks very dire for enfs.

[Armus]

Everything is getting flippin' reworked.
Wait 'til they show all their cards and then decide to get your panties in a twist.

Who says you're gonna need your current alpha to kill a doc when they get their treatment? Who knows if evades won't get a chance so perks seldom do no damage at all? Who says ...
Funcom quite CLEARLY stated they wanted pvp to last longer. That's moving away from bigass alpha's. You can't compare the current documents with the current version of AO.

Really, stop overreacting like this. At least until you can see the entire picture. It's called a rebalance, they need to break it down to a common starting ground and build up from that.

Well ofcourse you'll react like this. Your main is fixer. With the announced changes you will be next to unstopable. Enfs won't catch you anymore, LE nukes gone and you even get a few not too shabby boosts.

Easy for you to wait since you'll be more godlike than advies after this.

[sultryvoltron]

Stuff

Gimme quotes from devs on how those things are or aren't changing, otherwise it's all speculation by an uninformed Enfo.

[sultryvoltron]

Well ofcourse you'll react like this. Your main is fixer. With the announced changes you will be next to unstopable. Enfs won't catch you anymore, LE nukes gone and you even get a few not too shabby boosts.

Easy for you to wait since you'll be more godlike than advies after this.

Double post, but I really think there's alot of overreacting over how good Fixer changes are. Effective healing is roughly the same. Evades are slightly higher, as if that matters. Roots and Snares see huge nerfs, although honestly down to appropriate levels. PO is... meh it'll be changed I believe.

LE nukes are gone, but you don't know jack **** about what they will be replaced with. It may be even easier for an NT to kill a fixer post-changes. YOU DO NOT KNOW!

It's 100% baseless speculation.

[Moonbolt]

quotes on what parts of the post do u want?
and why cant u look them up yourself?
and why do u think that im uninformed?
its easy to look at how an enforcer works today and draw conclusions from it.

the only way we can kill people today is by alphaing them down with a fast executing alpha with stuns.
when the alpha gets slowed down and decreased in dmg its easy to see that we wont be able to kill people anylonger since that is our only way to kill people.
nerfing our alpha and not giving us any boosts in defences is a flat out nerf to the enforcer profession that is completely uncalled for.
just look at the problems keepers has in pvp today.
they dont have stuns in their alpha and they are pretty damn bad off in pvp atm.
nerfing the enfs alpha powers is putting enfs in a worse situation then keepers are atm in pvp.
we got less defences then keepers already and now we will get worse offence then keepers aswell.
what picture do u paint out in ur mind when we will be weaker in both offence and defence then keepers are at this point of the game after the rebalance when keepers are getting boosted to a point of being stronger then enforcers are atm.

[Armus]

Double post, but I really think there's alot of overreacting over how good Fixer changes are. Effective healing is roughly the same. Evades are slightly higher, as if that matters. Roots and Snares see huge nerfs, although honestly down to appropriate levels. PO is... meh it'll be changed I believe.

LE nukes are gone, but you don't know jack **** about what they will be replaced with. It may be even easier for an NT to kill a fixer post-changes. YOU DO NOT KNOW!

It's 100% baseless speculation.

No, I'm commenting on what I see in the documentation.

You on the other hand are commenting on what MAY turn up sometime later. THAT is baseless speculation if any.

[sultryvoltron]

its easy to look at how an enforcer works today and draw conclusions from it.

Here's your first problem. When rebalance is done, you might as well be playing AO2.

what picture do u paint out in ur mind when we will be weaker in both offence and defence then keepers are at this point of the game after the rebalance

Here's your second problem. This is a baseless assumption.

There is too little information at this point to draw an accurate conclusion about the strength of Enforcers post-balance.

[sultryvoltron]

No, I'm commenting on what I see in the documentation.

You on the other hand are commenting on what MAY turn up sometime later. THAT is baseless speculation if any.

Another double post.

NT nano changes WILL turn up sometime later. You still don't know jack **** about what those documents say, yet Fixers will have instant godmode against an unknown tool? I'm calling you out on that. It's called speculation.

Guess what? That's not the only proposed change that's going to weaken fixers drastically. See perk execution changes for example. Will this make it in game? Who knows. If it does it will hurt fixers pretty bad. If it's impossible to do, you think the dev team doesn't know that Fixers will have far too much evades at that point and will rectify that? How will they rectify that? WHO KNOWS?

And that's the point. Making any claim of godmode or gimpness at this point is extremely premature. It's like trying to guess at the picture of a puzzle when you've only assembled a section of blue sky.